prison reform and prisoner rehab.

[[KMA]Avenger]

about 4 years ago i was in Romania and they had a prison which resembled more of an isolated village than any prison we in the west would recognize.
the inmates there dont have a life of luxury and in fact have to work or be willing to acquire new skills, which they then put to use in the prison.

i was in Romania on business and was looking for woodworking manufactures who could supply me reclaimed pine furniture. 1 morning to my shock and horror, my Romanian friends picked me up from my hotel and said we would be visiting a manufacture which just so happened to be the prison.

once i was inside and actually looking at the goods, i was amazed at the quality, real top end stuff, all hand made and finished by hand.

we in the west have it all wrong when it comes to the prison system. the Romanian system means that the prisoners acquire new skills and also their labour and products help to partially fund the prison relieving the tax payer of a huge burden, as well all the other side benefits such as prisoners less likely to re-offend.

whichever system anyone is in favour of, personally, i would take away the playstations and personal TV's, pool tables and whatnot.

anyways, lets talk

[solmyr]

agreed luxuries in prison are silly

people get to think its not such a bad place when they still have tv, videogames and free gym membership.

a prison-school would be better, with sentences shortened for completing apprenticeships/learning trade or completing college courses or similar

[Kit-Fox]

Ahhh but your forgetting KMA that by forcing prisoners to do anything you are by definition aubsing their human rights

and yes you can thank the EU for that, in the case of the UK anyways

[[KMA]Avenger]

lol, i was thinking "EU" as soon as i had finished reading the first line...well, the EU can EFF off and take their human rights and shove em!

they dont think "human rights" with all this carbon crap, which has resulted in 1 3rd of the worlds food manufacturing being switched from food production to bio-fuel production resulting in the doubling of world food prices, so that tells you all you need to know about the EU and how they perceive humanity...


dont get me going about the EU

[Kit-Fox]

I was mearly pointing out that UK prisoners were used as a workforce or encouraged to do productive things while behind bars, until the EU court of human rights ruled against the UK gov saying it wasnt legal to force any prisoner to do anything that prisoner didnt want to do.

[[KMA]Avenger]

i know mate, but as you well know, the EU is a nest of vermin and gets me VERY peeved off!

anyways, back on topic.

[agapooka]

Is it a violation of human rights to make someone stay in a place he or she doesn't want to stay?

Just as in conventional society where one works in order to sustain themselves, the prison system could operate on a similar model. No prisoner would be forced to do work, but food, TV, etc. would require some sort of prison credit, which would be awarded for labour and good behaviour.

This might shift the attitude that is had in prisons, where survival is a function of one's acquaintances and general "toughness". Prison credit would necessarily be non-transferable between inmates, to avoid corruption. Guards would not be able to award credits directly, although they can make reports on behaviour which may influence this. The system would have to be managed at the top through virtual accounts.

It would ideally isolate prisoners from each other in a manner in which they may have little leverage over each other.


Agapooka

[Kit-Fox]

Nice idea pookie, but at least as far as uk jails go let me just run down some of the judgements against the uk gov & jail system that have stuck in my head

- random checks of cells violates a prisoners right to privacy

- forcing any imate to work or make legal gainful use of their sentence is a violation of their rights

- withholding basic communication abilities from the general populace of a jail is also considered a violation of thier rights (and by this it was originally meant to mean that there should be at least 1 radio/tv per block & that newspapers were available so that inmates could keep up to date with news and othersocial developments)

- not allowing visits was considered a cruel & unusual punishment (no specific time frame was mentioned in the ruling if i recall, however it is now expected by inmates to have at least 1 hour a week where they may be visited by members of the public)

again this is all UK based & some of it are court judgements from the EU & some from the UK. all in all however it all adds up to one thing, cushy jails & a situation that would be hard to reverse thanks to the legal precedants and those are just off the top of my head that I can recall. I'm sure there are more out there, all in favour of the prisoner of course

So nice idea but I cant see it happening here

[Deaths_Rider]

i'm guessing the prison was a minimum security if so it's a good idea and works the same in aus except they have the choice to participate and have to earn there own 2 room unit if they don't participate or fail a drug test or have behaviour issues they stay in cells and cant work.

i know in medium they can study a trade or get high school certificates but it is much more structred and supervised

in maximum they get nothing usefull to do but then you have to have been ruled a danger to others to end up there and so cant be trusted with tools ect. so theres not much they can let them do.

it is by no means perfect and unfortunatly operates a little differently at every prison but it seems as good as any other way

[Mister Sandman]

prevention is better than reform / or rehab


and



a 8c bullet is generally the best type of rehab...

[[KMA]Avenger]

well, i wonder how long it took for you to come up with that reply?!

[Deaths_Rider]

of course prevention is better but no matter how much prevention there will always be people braking the law


and prehaps you should load that bullet up for some self rehab

[Brdavs]

lol, i was thinking "EU" as soon as i had finished reading the first line...well, the EU can EFF off and take their human rights and shove em!

they dont think "human rights" with all this carbon crap, which has resulted in 1 3rd of the worlds food manufacturing being switched from food production to bio-fuel production resulting in the doubling of world food prices, so that tells you all you need to know about the EU and how they perceive humanity...


dont get me going about the EU

Well have fun with the new UK airport x-rays. Also make sure you smile when you get that finger up yer chimney checking for plastique. Who needs human rights indeed heh.

And btw it is widely recognized that the 07-08 food price rises were a culmination of several different efects.

prevention is better than reform / or rehab


and



a 8c bullet is generally the best type of rehab...

How very... old testament of you... lol. It`s allways the most in touch with god folk that has the most lucifer pleasing oppinions on these matters, isnt that funny heh.




I think it`s a good idea.

Current penal systems obviously don`t work. We need to mature as a society and as a repression aparatus. Is this the way? Who knows. But I hear such "projects" have good results in temrs of "rehabilitating" people so... time will tell.

[[KMA]Avenger]

even an idiot (not that i'm calling you an idiot, thats aimed at our so called leaders) can see that if someone is unskilled/educated and as a result ended up living a life of crime because of a lack of opportunity, and then gets a 2nd chance in prison, will have a better chance of staying clear of criminality and more than likely not re-offend again...

if an idiot knows these things then what does that say for our leaders?!

[Mister Sandman]

well, i wonder how long it took for you to come up with that reply?!

about 5 seconds

How very... old testament of you... lol. It`s allways the most in touch with god folk that has the most lucifer pleasing oppinions on these matters, isnt that funny heh.

I think it`s a good idea.

Current penal systems obviously don`t work. We need to mature as a society and as a repression aparatus. Is this the way? Who knows. But I hear such "projects" have good results in temrs of "rehabilitating" people so... time will tell.

Lol i was being dry.

But, rehab sometimes works, sometimes doesnt.... so why waste money?