crimes against humanity.

[Legendary Apophis]

Yes, let's revisit the 50's.

Napalm, anyone? ...
Gas, anyone? ...
Landmines, anyone? ...


There are no innocent governments in the 50's. They all stank, they all reeked of corruption and the desire to advance themselves at the cost of everyone else.
So Israel may or may not have committed crimes back then. The matter is insignificant, given the propensity to criminal behaviour tied to any government attempting to combine the contradicting ideals of a democratic society with progress and competitiveness.

(Besides.. what's 1000 children. What was the world pop in the 50's? 3 billion? Ay, heartless, I know. Can't be obscured by emotion in these things really, lest we would have to accuse and blame everyone equally. But then, where would be the fun in that.

Rational argument: You have to figure out what this and that does to those and us, don't you? If your enemy bombs you with a nuke, you'd better know what the consequences are beforehand. Same thing with considering to bomb your enemies. Have to make sure you do the kind of damage you want to do, or you're just wasting precious uranium.

Emotional argument - inherently flawed: Good lord! We're irradiating millions today. So what if a few were irradiated before we knew what dosages were sufficient. Just be happy you weren't among their number.)


In any case, pointing out the flaws of one specific nation is insignificant. You need to look at everyone, not just focus on some country you hate deeply. That tends to both obscure the rational arguments, and makes you prone to misconceptions in regard to responsibility and significance of your own argument.

Then again.. you knew all this. So why this thread?

Offensive bias I would say when I read that! (You chose well your name lol!!!)

I'm personally against experimenting on innocent people, without being sure they know and accept (people being paid to be tested and the likes). Now, make your own interpretation of "innocent" people...

[Ashu]

But you would experiment on guilty people without their approval?

[Juliette]

But you would experiment on guilty people without their approval?

That's an ethical dilemma. Quite interesting, but the whole "omg they are innocent" seems to be off topic.


We're talking about crimes against humanity. Not crimes against a person.
No matter how grievous a single murder can be, it is no crime against humanity.
A mass murder which significantly affects the population of a specific area, can be considered a crime against humanity.
The brutal slaughter of 100 kids who were holed up in some school which their enemy believed to be a hostile hideout can be debated as a crime against humanity. Personally, I'd disagree with the label, but my name is Bias.

In fact, in considering crimes against humanity, the individual suffering becomes inconsequential to your considerations. Of course it sucks to be killed or lose a relative. However, if society as a whole is able to progress at the cost of that life, even if it is your own, then there are rational grounds for you to be terminated. Death can be a blessing to some of our more.. radical 'friends'.

While we have outgrown the "How much more gas does it take to terminate a 20 year old well-nourished male as opposed to a 20 year old malnourished male" phase of research.. but essentially, we have just gone closer to the source.
Stem cell research using 'discarded' foetuses, for example. How gross is that, if you consider a foetus an actual human life form? Revolting!
But just 2 days ago, a report was published, that research of this kind had revealed how blood stem cells grow. This is not something you can just see, apparently. The applications of this knowledge, these new insights, are remarkable and laudable.
That the source of the knowledge is lamentable.. well.. that's just something we'll have to deal with.
Do we want medicine to progress? Yes? Then we have to make sacrifices. You can't use a computer to simulate this, if you have never documented the phenomenon. The computer won't just invent something like that.. even if it's entirely logical and easy to figure out.


Consider this.
Two cities (A and B) are on opposite banks of a river.
City A is peaceloving and decides to build a bridge.
City B is warlike and decides to train their army.
Once the city A finishes their bridge, city B's well trained army crosses it and takes A by surprise.

[Sir Balor]

no probs. well, i thought better of it and decided we wouldn't get any kind of sensible debate and people will just see hatred were there is none to be implied.

a good example is the US, UK and Israel (to name just 3) all 3 nations have committed CAH (crimes against humanity) and war-crimes of varying degrees of severity in modern times and yet, no punishment or so much as an investigation is ever carried out. at best, some lowly private/s are smacked on the hands, dishonourably discharged and or sent to prison, without so much as a look into where their orders came from.

anyways, the above is nothing more than a statement. discuss as you please, or post what you find along the topics lines.

UK havent commited CAH or war crimes since WW2 (thats right we invented concentration camps, damn germys stealing our ideas and getting more famous from it).

[Legendary Apophis]

no probs. well, i thought better of it and decided we wouldn't get any kind of sensible debate and people will just see hatred were there is none to be implied.

a good example is the US, UK and Israel (to name just 3) all 3 nations have committed CAH (crimes against humanity) and war-crimes of varying degrees of severity in modern times and yet, no punishment or so much as an investigation is ever carried out. at best, some lowly private/s are smacked on the hands, dishonourably discharged and or sent to prison, without so much as a look into where their orders came from.

anyways, the above is nothing more than a statement. discuss as you please, or post what you find along the topics lines.

UK havent commited CAH or war crimes since WW2 (thats right we invented concentration camps, damn germys stealing our ideas and getting more famous from it).

Weren't the first concentration camps in Namibia or somewhere like that, in XIXth century?
I might be wrong, I just think I read it somewhere...

[Sir Balor]

no probs. well, i thought better of it and decided we wouldn't get any kind of sensible debate and people will just see hatred were there is none to be implied.

a good example is the US, UK and Israel (to name just 3) all 3 nations have committed CAH (crimes against humanity) and war-crimes of varying degrees of severity in modern times and yet, no punishment or so much as an investigation is ever carried out. at best, some lowly private/s are smacked on the hands, dishonourably discharged and or sent to prison, without so much as a look into where their orders came from.

anyways, the above is nothing more than a statement. discuss as you please, or post what you find along the topics lines.

UK havent commited CAH or war crimes since WW2 (thats right we invented concentration camps, damn germys stealing our ideas and getting more famous from it).

Weren't the first concentration camps in Namibia or somewhere like that, in XIXth century?
I might be wrong, I just think I read it somewhere...

the first real concentration camps were commisioned by lord kitchener during the boer war.
there were similar things before hand but they were as bad as it it got, until somebody had the bright idea of adding shooting lines and nerve gas to the equation.

[MajorLeeHurts]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

[Juliette]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

*drools* *chases tail* *follows Major home*
A kindred spirit! *heart*

[Sir Balor]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

*drools* *chases tail* *follows Major home*
A kindred spirit! *heart*

agreed
can we haz forced sterilisation too? and allow cloning? stem cell research?

[Legendary Apophis]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

LOL...
You volunteer to be the first sacrified/terminated for Unnatural Selection goodness?
Good good, one down, many more to go!
Who else volunters?


What's better than to instaur something evil and finding people agreeing with it (and thus voluntering)?

[Juliette]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

LOL...
You volunteer to be the first sacrified/terminated for Unnatural Selection goodness?
Good good, one down, many more to go!
Who else volunters?


What's better than to instaur something evil and finding people agreeing with it (and thus voluntering)?

What a grandiose non argument. You reinforce our point.

[MajorLeeHurts]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

LOL...
You volunteer to be the first sacrified/terminated for Unnatural Selection goodness?
Good good, one down, many more to go!
Who else volunters?


What's better than to instaur something evil and finding people agreeing with it (and thus voluntering)?

What a grandiose non argument. You reinforce our point.

Couldn't have put it better myself

*sigh*

[MEZZANINE]

Obviously none of you have been forced sit through the Eurovision Song Contest, I was once was as a child and the experience still haunts me, hell if I were American I would be in therapy

Crimes against Humanity = Eurovision Song Contest


As for the lesser evil of Reverse-Darwinism I agree western society, well in the UK at least, the stupid are encouraged to breed supposedly to pay the taxes of tomorrow and fund the ever aging populations twilight years, but its all a crock, our economy goes from boom to bust once a decade because consumerist capitalism requires it to grow until it collapses, then grow again. The state sponsored breeding program otherwise known as benefits/Dole/DSS/Welfare is just boom and bust on larger scale, when the population gets unsustainable the proverbial will really hit the fan

China had the right idea with limits on numbers of Children per family, and telling people not to have kids they cant support, sounds harsh but without population control the whole world is DOOOMED

Like I always say, eat, drink, smoke & screw, get it while it's good cause tomorrow we're all boned

[Hitchkok]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

LOL...
You volunteer to be the first sacrified/terminated for Unnatural Selection goodness?
Good good, one down, many more to go!
Who else volunters?


What's better than to instaur something evil and finding people agreeing with it (and thus voluntering)?

What a grandiose non argument. You reinforce our point.

Couldn't have put it better myself

*sigh*

no, it isn't (a non-argument), and stating is one does not make it one.
the fact you chose no to see the point is a fault by you, not by him.
and the question still remains: how do you pick who will be used to said
experiments?
will there be an objective set of criteria, or would ID noumbers be drawn lottery-fashion?
or maybe we'll breed a whole class of human test subjects?
don't even bother answering this, offensive, unless youre searious.
now, getting back to the original post: how exactly will science produce a superior being?

[Legendary Apophis]

[spoiler]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

LOL...
You volunteer to be the first sacrified/terminated for Unnatural Selection goodness?
Good good, one down, many more to go!
Who else volunters?



What's better than to instaur something evil and finding people agreeing with it (and thus voluntering)?

What a grandiose non argument. You reinforce our point.

Couldn't have put it better myself

*sigh*

no, it isn't (a non-argument), and stating is one does not make it one.
the fact you chose no to see the point is a fault by you, not by him.
and the question still remains: how do you pick who will be used to said
experiments?

[/spoiler]
Very true. I thought it was for goodness of humanity to test things on people and even better when people agree with the theory behind the thing?
Looks like double standards made a rushing entry on the argument and rationality of objectivity starts to crumble. When things became serious

[spoiler]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

LOL...
You volunteer to be the first sacrified/terminated for Unnatural Selection goodness?
Good good, one down, many more to go!
Who else volunters?


What's better than to instaur something evil and finding people agreeing with it (and thus voluntering)?

What a grandiose non argument. You reinforce our point.

[/spoiler]
I just applied your theory that science had to be tested for the betterment of humanity.
And since it's always better ethical wise to test it on people agreeing with the experience thing first, what's reinforcing your point lol?

Now I would NOT want you being terminated because you are a good friend, BUT others who think this way I wouldn't mind them applying their theory of science's dealing (test it on people) and also their theory on population on themselves because as Hitchkok said, who to choose for that, and then why not people agreeing with the idea before the ones being against it (which is completly un ethical)? Afterall, we want to satisfy people right?

With that kind of answer...you are being bias!!

[spoiler]

I am constantly amused by the idea that any human thinks that humans in general are anymore sentient , special or immune to death by dastardly means than for example a goat and as a matter of fact some humans take better care of there goats then there humans.

We have become a viral animal on this planet... thank the planet for natural selection and thank the primitive and devolved for population control.

The crime against humanity is letting it breed out of control and not using science to create a truly superior being.

LOL...
You volunteer to be the first sacrified/terminated for Unnatural Selection goodness?
Good good, one down, many more to go!
Who else volunters?


What's better than to instaur something evil and finding people agreeing with it (and thus voluntering)?

What a grandiose non argument. You reinforce our point.

Couldn't have put it better myself

*sigh*

[/spoiler]
Feeling in danger suddenly, should have thought first before talking about it then?
People always change opinion when it's becoming dangerous for them.

Sorry to tell you, rationally, it should be exactly the way I said.
Bit expeditive? Don't pick such theories then!

It's the shoot first theory...sure it's caricatural...but it's valid.
"Who thinks we should do lower numbers in our organization?"
"Me"
*shoots* "Any other volunteers left?"





Finally, the Chinese 1 child per family in THEORY was good...sadly there's been countless abuses and it went far from the original scheme making it less and less attractive even for people who agreed more or less with the theory part.