bring back the death penalty for scum like this!

[Hitchkok]

i don't support capital punishement.
the way i see it, the only purpose it serves is the masses lust for revenge.

[RepliMagni]

i don't support capital punishement.
the way i see it, the only purpose it serves is the masses lust for revenge.

So it makes more sense to imprison someone for life? At a cost of say £30k a year? Or even worse, in the above case, let out a rapist who fathered 10 children with his own daughters, after only 15 years jail time?

The whole point of prison is to rehabilitate people, to reform them into valuable members of society - in some cases, the person may never be let free, so why keep them alive if they are beyond all reasonable doubt guilty of the crime? In other cases, such as the above, they may be let free after inflicting a lifetime of pain and suffering on people - I'm all for second chances, but sometimes people do not deserve them.....

[[KMA]Avenger]

i don't support capital punishement.
the way i see it, the only purpose it serves is the masses lust for revenge.

IF (i know "IF" is a big word, and in this case, is not so cut and dry), capital punishment and the legal system worked as it should, then its not about revenge, its about justice and its also a MAJOR deterrent.

what about using capital punishment on people like Dennis Rader (AKA-BTK Killer), Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Gary Ridgeway (AKA-The Green River Killer), and what about these very charming fellows, Henry Lee Lucas – Body count: Somewhere in the region of 600 (some say 350), Pedro Alonso Lopez – Body count: 300+, etc etc etc...

do the above still deserve to breath the same air as "we" do?



[spoiler]2 individuals who deserve eternal damnation and should suffer all the agonies imaginable are these very nice men who are responsible for millions of murders...i kid you not!!!


New Jesuit General Superior Father Adolfo Nicolás




but this is a discussion for another topic[/spoiler]

[Hitchkok]

i don't support capital punishement.
the way i see it, the only purpose it serves is the masses lust for revenge.

So it makes more sense to imprison someone for life? At a cost of say £30k a year? Or even worse, in the above case, let out a rapist who fathered 10 children with his own daughters, after only 15 years jail time?

The whole point of prison is to rehabilitate people, to reform them into valuable members of society - in some cases, the person may never be let free, so why keep them alive if they are beyond all reasonable doubt guilty of the crime? In other cases, such as the above, they may be let free after inflicting a lifetime of pain and suffering on people - I'm all for second chances, but sometimes people do not deserve them.....

rehabilitation is NOT the only reason for prison.
the reason for prison is three fold. one is indeed rehab. the others are detterence and keeping the populace save.
anyway, saving money is not reason enough to execute a person. it's just one step away from preventing medical treatment from invalids.
i'll admit i have an irrational aversion of capital punishment (which is a big thing for me to admit), but i still stand by my opinion that no end can be met by an execution save for sattisfying some premitive notion of justice.
i mean, keep a man alive, and he might repent. kill him, and, well, you've killed him.
@ kma, who's to say who "deserves" anything?

[RepliMagni]

rehabilitation is NOT the only reason for prison.
the reason for prison is three fold. one is indeed rehab. the others are detterence and keeping the populace save.

But prisons clearly aren't an effective deterent. Regular meals, free board, exercise yard, etc....for some people that is their idea of luxury. If prisons were intended as deterents then they would make "life sentences", who have no chance of rehabilitation, do forced labour or some other punishment.

anyway, saving money is not reason enough to execute a person. it's just one step away from preventing medical treatment from invalids.

I'm not saying alone it is a good enough reason. But if the person is never to be released, and if the whole point is to be a deterent, why keep the person alive?

i'll admit i have an irrational aversion of capital punishment (which is a big thing for me to admit), but i still stand by my opinion that no end can be met by an execution save for sattisfying some premitive notion of justice.
i mean, keep a man alive, and he might repent. kill him, and, well, you've killed him.

I must admit, I had not considered the potential religious notion of repentence.....

[[KMA]Avenger]

@ kma, who's to say who "deserves" anything?

the people have that right, and since most laws in western country's are based on the bible, then it is a valid form of punishment.
dont get me wrong, i only advocate the use of "extreme" punishment for the worst of the worst such as those i've listed to both on this page and the first.

the people should have the right to vote on whether capital punishment should be brought back. but as i said, only for the worst of the worst and that should made clear when people vote so they know what they are voting on.

[Hitchkok]

@ kma, who's to say who "deserves" anything?

the people have that right, and since most laws in western country's are based on the bible, then it is a valid form of punishment.
dont get me wrong, i only advocate the use of "extreme" punishment for the worst of the worst such as those i've listed to both on this page and the first.

society indeed has the right to determine punishment to it's members (i wouldn't use the bible as a source of authority (here a law justified by the bible alone will not go quietly)), only, the fact it was abolished means that it deemed capital punishment as wrong.

the people should have the right to vote on whether capital punishment should be brought back. but as i said, only for the worst of the worst and that should made clear when people vote so they know what they are voting on.

if it's that much concern to you, lobby for it. in the UK, with the regional system for the parliement elections you have a much better option to influence MPs.

rehabilitation is NOT the only reason for prison.
the reason for prison is three fold. one is indeed rehab. the others are detterence and keeping the populace save.

But prisons clearly aren't an effective deterent. Regular meals, free board, exercise yard, etc....for some people that is their idea of luxury. If prisons were intended as deterents then they would make "life sentences", who have no chance of rehabilitation, do forced labour or some other punishment.
prisons are everything BUT luxury. they take away the most basic luxury a person have, his freedom. some people prefer to stay in prison, true, but they are usually people (more often than not, women) that have been victimised outside, and were arrested for petty theft and the like. not your typical death-row candidate

anyway, saving money is not reason enough to execute a person. it's just one step away from preventing medical treatment from invalids.

I'm not saying alone it is a good enough reason. But if the person is never to be released, and if the whole point is to be a deterent, why keep the person alive?
what reason is to execute him?

i'll admit i have an irrational aversion of capital punishment (which is a big thing for me to admit), but i still stand by my opinion that no end can be met by an execution save for sattisfying some premitive notion of justice.
i mean, keep a man alive, and he might repent. kill him, and, well, you've killed him.

I must admit, I had not considered the potential religious notion of repentence.....

i actually didn't mean it in the religious sense, more in the rehabilitation sense. it's happened before, and we owe it to the criminals to allow for the option it will happen again.
true, theire victims lost every option they had, but that is the thin line between us and them.

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[[KMA]Avenger]

I'd like a sensible answer to this, if anyone can actually give one (i say that because I have yet to hear a sensible answer to this question)

How do you correct a mistake with capital punishment?

How do you resurrect someone?



Capital punishment (for the UK) was revoked as too many mistakes were made & it is impossible to reverse death.

a very valid question mate, 1 that i've been waiting for someone to actually ask...

as i've said, it should be reserved for the absolute worst dregs of humanity. that's my stance as to who would be eligible for the death penalty.

as to correcting the mistake...obviously you cant correct such a mistake once the sentence has been carried out...

however, the mistakes of the past (with regards to the UK) can be avoided now thanks in large part to forensics being so much more advanced than they were in the mid 60's.

i've attempted to answer that with as much thought and honesty as possible.

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[[KMA]Avenger]

what about all the sickos i've linked to in this thread, is there ANY doubt as to their guilt?

no mate, its not best to have 10 sick people on our streets or prisons by any stretch of the imagination..

a counter question for you...what if bringing back the death penalty for murderers, rapists and paedophiles actually reduces these crimes...is that not worth it?

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[[KMA]Avenger]

as far as i am concerned mate, if you rape or sexually abuse or murder someone, then you forfeit your right to live, full stop.

how about we ask grown ups as well as children who have been abused if they would like to see these animals punished as they should be?! how about we ask a murdered persons family if they would like to see it brought back?!

better yet...how about we ask James Bulgers mum? seen the news lately?


i agree that with our present legal system, it wont work, which means if the legal system worked as it should, it would then make capital punishment a valid form of punishment.

as for applying capital punishment for other crimes...no i am defo not in favour of that at all...it should only be kept for the worst of the worst as i've said...



maybe it can be brought back for these guys?!


WARNING...not easy viewing...especially if your a Roman Catholic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iT6-KCuZDI

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[Mordack]

No type of evidence is reliable, not forensics or witnesses or even video/audio. Mistakes will happen, no matter what you restict it to.

Better that 10 guilty men live rather than kill 1 innocent man.

Agreed.

Even in today's world, with so much technology at the disposal of law enforcement, mistakes can still be made. Mistakes can be made in any field involving human beings because of our capacity for error. No matter how advanced we become, human error is going to exist for as long as we do. We are imperfect, and our computers and science will only ever be as good as we are. You talk about irrefutable proof, but as far as I'm concerned there's no such thing.

http://loretolaw.blogspot.com/2009/03/modern-miscarriage-of-justice.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/05/1

And mistakes have been made. Innocent people have been punished, and later released. If we imprison someone for thirty years for a crime they didn't commit then at least we can apologize at the end of it and give them their life back. Maybe even compensate them. What can we give someone we hung? A posthumous pardon and a letter apologizing to their relatives? I will remain fundamentally opposed to the death penalty for as long as it remains irreversible.