BETA UPDATES 2010

[Sarevok]

A fleet on planet attack must be at least 20% of the planetary pre-mobile defense. This is up from 12%.

so basically "lets make planets untouchable" the prices for fleet are already massive compared to the price of the planet def

IMO, your crazy, AND blind.

You complain because they've focused on 1 planet, just as you focused on just fleets. If they had put the SAME resources over 10 planets? You would take them in about 1 hit

Consider this, if you would. Before saying planets are to defensible...
10 planets, with 500k defenses each costs 350T naq. Equivalent fleet hangers is about 264,000. 264k fleets can take up to ~2T worth of planet defenses. Yet these planets with only 500k have a defense power of 1.5T (about 75% of the fleets power)
10 planets with 600k defenses costs 510T naq. Giving about 320k fleets. This can take up to 2.46T defense power. With a planet defense power of 1.8T (about 73%)
10 planets with 700k defenses costs 830T naq. Giving about 407k fleets. This can take up to 3.14T defense power. With a planet defense power of 2.1T (about 67%)
Save 800k and 900k, i'll jump to 1M
10 planets with 1000k (1M) defenses costs 5310T naq. Giving about 1030k (1.03M) fleets. This can take up to 7.94T defense power. With a planet defense power of 3T (about 38%)

So your telling me that, the cost of 400k fleet hangers being 800T, and the planet defenses costing 5300T is fair???

[Andariel]

I think very few people know that planet defense costs increase exponentially after 1.5t power.

I don't know why everyone says defense is useless...
people have strike planets? there's defense planets as well.
defense stat on planets is more expensive? as it should be.
defense has an innate advantage of losing less units per hit.

the only advantage strike has is that you can 0 weapons while the opponent is offline. that's it.
all games like sgw(mmo, running 24/7, no resets) reward the most active player...

[Sarevok]

I think very few people know that planet defense costs increase exponentially after 1.5t power.

indeed they do, whereas fleets only go up liniar

I don't know why everyone says defense is useless...
people have strike planets? there's defense planets as well.
defense stat on planets is more expensive? as it should be.
defense has an innate advantage of losing less units per hit.

Because if you spend 10T on a attack planet, and 10T on a defense planet. The attack planet will have a higher stat then the defense planet, and you only need 30% of the defense planet stat in an attack planet stat, to neutralise the bonus. But yet for the same price, it's actually MORE powerful.
E.g:
250B attack vs 1T defense. The defense can't be damaged.
Adding in a 100b attack planet to the attacker, and a 100b defense planet to the defender
350b attack vs 1.1T defense. The defense can be damaged, and thus massed.

the only advantage strike has is that you can 0 weapons while the opponent is offline. that's it.
all games like sgw(mmo, running 24/7, no resets) reward the most active player...

So we should penalize those whom sleep? Interesting...
That is not the only advantage. Sure, you can set the stat to 0. But you can all kill off all the weapons, AND kill off all the units. Where as attack units are un-touchable, and attack weapons can only be targeted by sabatage, which so can defense...

[Andariel]

I don't know why everyone says defense is useless...
people have strike planets? there's defense planets as well.
defense stat on planets is more expensive? as it should be.
defense has an innate advantage of losing less units per hit.

Because if you spend 10T on a attack planet, and 10T on a defense planet. The attack planet will have a higher stat then the defense planet, and you only need 30% of the defense planet stat in an attack planet stat, to neutralise the bonus. But yet for the same price, it's actually MORE powerful.
E.g:
250B attack vs 1T defense. The defense can't be damaged.
Adding in a 100b attack planet to the attacker, and a 100b defense planet to the defender
350b attack vs 1.1T defense. The defense can be damaged, and thus massed.

simply being able to mass the defense does not make it superior. and like i said the defender must be offline otherwise its a hopeless cause. the attacker will take FAR greater losses per hit.

have you ever tried to mass a defense with the bare minimum required? its no cake walk i guarantee you. you end up losing your entire attack force about 3 times.(remember devastating damage = loss of 10% of the attacking force)

the only advantage strike has is that you can 0 weapons while the opponent is offline. that's it.
all games like sgw(mmo, running 24/7, no resets) reward the most active player...

So we should penalize those whom sleep? Interesting...
That is not the only advantage. Sure, you can set the stat to 0. But you can all kill off all the weapons, AND kill off all the units. Where as attack units are un-touchable, and attack weapons can only be targeted by sabatage, which so can defense...

all of that depends on if the defender is offline.
in a straight fight the defense always has the advantage is all I'm saying.
yes if you hit enough times with a decent strike the weapons will die before you lose your entire force. that is the advantage of the attacker. or rather that is the advantage of being more active than the defender.

[Sarevok]

simply being able to mass the defense does not make it superior. and like i said the defender must be offline otherwise its a hopeless cause. the attacker will take FAR greater losses per hit.

And yet, you can not damage their attack in any way apart from sabatarge, unless you yourself directly cause it to be damaged and killed. It also gives you a greater power of equal weapon and unit. Allows you do go after other accounts, where as defense only covers you. Attack is NOT required to do anything, but defense is need to not only protect your income and units, but also to protect your spies as well.

have you ever tried to mass a defense with the bare minimum required? its no cake walk i guarantee you. you end up losing your entire attack force about 3 times.(remember devastating damage = loss of 10% of the attacking force)

have you ever tried massing an attack? Oh wait, you can't...
You may loose your attack force 3 times (lets assume for arguments sake you do), but you only 30% of their defense power anyway. So, you loose 300k units 3 times, that's 900k, and they loose their 1m units, along with completely loosing all their weapons, along with THEN being able to kill off any spies they may happen to have as well.

the only advantage strike has is that you can 0 weapons while the opponent is offline. that's it.
all games like sgw(mmo, running 24/7, no resets) reward the most active player...

So we should penalize those whom sleep? Interesting...
That is not the only advantage. Sure, you can set the stat to 0. But you can all kill off all the weapons, AND kill off all the units. Where as attack units are un-touchable, and attack weapons can only be targeted by sabatage, which so can defense...

all of that depends on if the defender is offline.
in a straight fight the defense always has the advantage is all I'm saying.
yes if you hit enough times with a decent strike the weapons will die before you lose your entire force. that is the advantage of the attacker. or rather that is the advantage of being more active than the defender.

Actually i don't agree the defender has the advantage. Assuming the defender only defends, and the attacker only attacks. There's a good chance the defender will loose Naq/UU whilst trying to rebuild, where as the attack has no risk of that happening to themselves

[Wepwaet]

So the bottom line Sarevok isn't that you have a problem with planets or this or that in the update... its that your defense isn't permanent and that others are allowed to attack you. The entire premise of the game is that someone CAN attack you. No matter how much you complain that isn't going to change. I'll say the same thing to you that I said before: everything in the game is balanced with a counter, if you don't like your troop losses on defence then build up planets to lower the number of defenders you need for whatever defence you want. Don't complain because your unwilling to counter the other persons moves through either your own laziness or false sense of entitlement.



Defences are NOT supposed to be permanent!

[Sarevok]

Defences are NOT supposed to be permanent!

I'm NOT saying that. Despite what everyone may think. The concept in anyone’s mind of fighting someone in a war where their attacking with 1/3 of the enemies power is just ludicrous at best.
Don't want to make defenses better fine, but allow people to attack attack units, instead of people sitting there with nothing to kill, killing everyone else.

The main point most people don't get when they say "improving defence is stupid", are the people that don't understand what is going to happen when everyone takes the sniper approach, have nothering but attack units, and hit whomever you want, because you can't be attacked back.

[Andariel]

my point remains that defense has the advantage of the defender is online.
attack has the advantage if the defender is offline (obviously).
that's all i ever said, and that's all you continue to reinforce.

[Wepwaet]

but allow people to attack attack units, instead of people sitting there with nothing to kill, killing everyone else.

This I completely agree with. Anything that pushes the game to stagnation because the only worthwhile hits left are ppt hits I don't agree with. What people don't realize is that they are pushing it towards that through the "defence needs to be improved" movement. Defence doesn't need to be improved, people need to suck it up and build counters to people's attacks. Anyone needing proof just talk to your friendly HU alliance and ask them how "easy" it is to chew through a well built defence.

[Sarevok]

but allow people to attack attack units, instead of people sitting there with nothing to kill, killing everyone else.

This I completely agree with. Anything that pushes the game to stagnation because the only worthwhile hits left are ppt hits I don't agree with. What people don't realize is that they are pushing it towards that through the "defence needs to be improved" movement. Defence doesn't need to be improved, people need to suck it up and build counters to people's attacks. Anyone needing proof just talk to your friendly HU alliance and ask them how "easy" it is to chew through a well built defence.

And in that i agree. I would rather see an update where i can attack somens attack whom is attacking me. Then simply have my defense take more of a beating before going down, since chances are, no matter what, it is ALWAYS going to go down

my point remains that defense has the advantage of the defender is online.
attack has the advantage if the defender is offline (obviously).
that's all i ever said, and that's all you continue to reinforce.

No, it doesn't. You try just defending whilst the attacker takes any repair Naq, and any UU you have out, and famrs their farms to rebuild. And see how long you last.

[Wepwaet]

my point remains that defense has the advantage of the defender is online.
attack has the advantage if the defender is offline (obviously).
that's all i ever said, and that's all you continue to reinforce.

No, it doesn't. You try just defending whilst the attacker takes any repair Naq, and any UU you have out, and famrs their farms to rebuild. And see how long you last.

Trust us a well built defense always exacts it's pound and a half of flesh from the attacker and will last a very long time if the person is online to maintain it. If yours doesn't then build it better.

[Andariel]

No, it doesn't. You try just defending whilst the attacker takes any repair Naq, and any UU you have out, and famrs their farms to rebuild. And see how long you last.

that's just an argument on the skill level of the defender.

[GeneralChaos]

Real quick fix for the defense argument,

You must have a defense of 50% of your attack at all times, for your attack to work, and to stop the snipers who would take the loss, you cannot sell weapons off once bought.

Want a good example of them problem, go check out any alliance or player in war, FIGNUTS alliance comes to mind, 1trill+ strikes 2bill defense.. balance huh, LOL whatever.

So, 50% defense of attack, or

The attacking force refuses to leave your realm with such a low defense to protect it until it returns,

And give the person 24 hours to rebuild said defense or the attackers start merging over to defense to protect the realm until a suitable defense is built, ( you have to set 24 hours to make it fair for people who dont get online as much )

On another note can J a s o n please explain what he believes to be balance, as im fairly sure that adding all these bonus's etc to the game is far from balance.

[Sarevok]

No, it doesn't. You try just defending whilst the attacker takes any repair Naq, and any UU you have out, and famrs their farms to rebuild. And see how long you last.

that's just an argument on the skill level of the defender.

So your trying to tell me. That a defender with finite resources has the advantage over an attack with (effectivly) infinite resources yes?

*Relate Attack and Defence*

I agree. Even this would help to balance the game

[[BoT] Jason]

Real quick fix for the defense argument,

You must have a defense of 50% of your attack at all times, for your attack to work, and to stop the snipers who would take the loss, you cannot sell weapons off once bought.

Want a good example of them problem, go check out any alliance or player in war, FIGNUTS alliance comes to mind, 1trill+ strikes 2bill defense.. balance huh, LOL whatever.

So, 50% defense of attack, or

The attacking force refuses to leave your realm with such a low defense to protect it until it returns,

And give the person 24 hours to rebuild said defense or the attackers start merging over to defense to protect the realm until a suitable defense is built, ( you have to set 24 hours to make it fair for people who dont get online as much )

On another note can J a s o n please explain what he believes to be balance, as im fairly sure that adding all these bonus's etc to the game is far from balance.

so effectively saying if i mass you online and take your def down you wont be able to fight back since your strike wont work