I, european citizen,

[LegendaryA]

anyways...


would be nice if i could get a response to my bolded and underlined part of my post:

Anyone living in the EU who hates their country and who would rather betray it, is pro-EU.
Anyone with a bit of national pride, is anti-EU.

Oh my god that was such an overly simplist and totally inaccurate analysis.

Don't accuse me to be a hater and traitor to my country, thank you.

not trying to upset you here mate but seriously...your in favour of the EU which by its very own admission wants to unite all of Europe into the Federal States of Europe. they want 1, army, 1 flag, 1 court system, 1 police force, 1 parliament, 1 monetary system and so on and so forth...so what are you in favour of if not the abolition of your country?

Tell me then how can there be such patriotism and national pride in the USA, if you consider how it's built up, and the specificity of federal/state laws etc...Does it mean that those from California or Florida necessarly hate their state if they are patriots? It's not the same indeed, but I consider the "result" which you refer to, instead of current things, to show you that the goals aren't the end of patriotism.

All of this reminds me the nationalist Corsican, Basque, Scottish, Flemish and all those other independantist movements. They want their region to be split from the state. We can say those people prefer their region over their state, to me they aren't patriots or anything. I don't mind if they keep specificities but if they want to split from the state, then where are we going...

the US is NOT the same and you now it mate! the states actually have the right to secede from the union, there is no such provision in the EU constitution...

picture this mate, ALL European countries join the EU and ratify the constitution and accept the whole thing lock stock and barrel. for 10 years all is well and good within our happy little community. until someone manages to take over the whole thing and forces on ALL Europeans things they dont want...what then? break away?? how??? you have no money and nothing of value because you accepted the constitution and handed over your monetary, economic control, you also gave them your gold reserves and all other reserves. so breaking away and forming a new economy wont work...how about force?! you have no armed force with which to fight your way out because some foreign general puppet who you have never heard of is in charge of your armed forces...what then?! i know! good ol democracy, never fails eh? well, if we cant break out economically and we cant fight our way out, we'll vote the whole bunch out of power and keep voting them out till we get what we want...correct? WRONG!!! its NOT a democracy and nobody is voted into office so i'd like to see you try and vote them out!

Politburo Jim?

If you didn't notice, the people given the main new charges (Van Rompuy and Ashton) are considered as discret people who are not likely to be charismatic leaders, like Sarkozy, Merkel or Berlusconi are. Those choices are unlikely to be innocent, leaders are ok with European Union as long as they can still have most of the "light" on them, instead of those new leaders. Also, being french myself, I'm not that shocked about the system how those two got elected. Undirectly by leaders themselves. We have this already here for senators, voted by mayors and other politicians in office (not direct vote by people) since fifth republic is there. If our first president of Vth republic (Charles De Gaulle) didn't push to have direct elections for presidentship as he knew people would have voted for him in masses, we would have by now same as USA for presidential elections, indirect elections. So that's why you don't see me making fuss about fact Van Rompuy wasn't elected directly. Anyway, this is rather hypocritical criticism, because I fairly know such election would got much abstaining because many people only care about "what can change their daily life" and don't see the bigger scheme. So we would have about 40% participation at best, and then people would whine it's not representative results and so on and so on...
So the big bad guy entering the office and ordering everyone to bow before him isn't likely to happen any time soon. Country leaders aren't much up to give up their importance to someone else.

What you seem to forget, and what I reminded previously in my big post, -whether it wasn't debate worthy or not doesn't matter-, is that not all countries in Europe are like UK. I will not go into details again, but most countries currently in EU are better in it than outside of it. The two islands don't feel the same, oh well, doesn't mean it's true -fortunately- for every other countries. Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal,..are better in the EU than outside of it. People now point fingers because Portugal and Spain have troubles...but those people always conveniently forget that if those two didn't join EU, they would still have former currency, and I am totally sure it would be far worse then.

[Brdavs]

I`m for like 75% of that list. EU center left ftw.

And I`ve siad this before, if UK has an issue they can hop off the train and cement their position as the 51st state.

[LegendaryA]

I`m for like 75% of that list. EU center left ftw.

And I`ve siad this before, if UK has an issue they can hop off the train and cement their position as the 51st state.

Haha <3 the 51st state thing.

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[LegendaryA]

Just to put it on the record the UK would never become the 51st state of the US. It jsut would never happen so can we put that to bed now please, yeah it was a joke way back in the 80s but now its just lame and shows you havent any understanding of whats going on between the UK & US atm.

As for countries that are part of the european continent, several would be better off without the mismanagement of the EU. In fact it is possible to argue that had Spain for example kept out of the Eurozone it wouldnt be facing such a huge potential crisis as it is atm. It is more liekly that had Spain retained its own currency and control over its interest rates that the crisis would be more managable and easier to deal with.

In fact Pops, France would have done exceptionally well at rebuilding itself had it not tied itself the EU idea. The EU hasnt exactly been a best friend to France and has at times prevent the French from being able to advance. Of course had you not joined the EU things would have been harder to start with and more much of a mountain to climb, but by now you would be back at the top of the mountain as it were.

EU has been best friend of France's farmers world for decades. Now it's being difficult for them, but the PAC (whatever it is in english) has been benefiting to France more than any other nation, that's what Thatcher and the likes condemned lol.
I'm very doubtful on whether France would have been better off EU than in it. Globalization would have arrived and lonesome France would have sunk with it.