ancient stories and accounts of the gods.

[[KMA]Avenger]

one of my passions aside from researching conspiracy's is researching history. its because of my researching history that i discovered history has been re-written and knowledge is being kept hidden that i discovered the conspiracy. that's besides the point here, the point being that the same accounts and stories of "the gods" exist all over the world.
stories of "those who from heaven to earth came", stories of wars between "the gods", stories of how "the gods" created man and taught us everything from writing to animal husbandry, from astronomy to medicine, and so on.

as we all know, whole cultures, customs and religions grew up around these encounters with "the gods", how many of you know about the cargo cults of the pacific during WW2?


the pacific cargo cults of WW2:
[spoiler]The most widely known period of cargo cult activity occurred amongst Pacific islanders in the years during and after World War II. First, the Japanese arrived with a great deal of unknown equipment, and later, Allied forces also used the islands in the same way. The vast amounts of war materiel that was air-dropped (or airlifted to airstrips) onto these islands during the Pacific campaign between the Allies and the Empire of Japan necessarily meant drastic changes to the lifestyle of the islanders, many of whom had never seen Westerners or Easterners before. Manufactured clothing, medicine, canned food, tents, weapons, and other useful goods arrived in vast quantities to equip soldiers. Some of it was shared with the islanders who were their guides and hosts. A small number of primitive peoples were observing, often right in front of their dwellings, the largest war ever fought in history, between the most technologically advanced countries.

Missionaries and colonial authorities normally present before World War II were evacuated from combat areas, and the local villagers were deprived of any knowledgeable explanations of these widespread and large scale war activities. Very little fraternization, or at least exchange of knowledge, occurred between US troops and the remote Melanesian. Initially, relations with the Japanese Army were good, but this soon deteriorated into hostility in most regions.

With the end of the war, the airbases were abandoned, and cargo was no longer dropped. In response, cults developed within remote Melanesian populations that promised to bestow the followers with deliveries of food, arms, Jeeps, etc., from their own ancestors, or other sources, as had happened to the outsider armies. In attempts to get cargo to fall by parachute or land in planes or ships again, islanders imitated the same practices they had seen the soldiers, sailors, and airmen use. Cult behaviour usually involved mimicking the day to day activities and dress styles of US soldiers, such as performing parade ground drills with wooden or salvaged rifles. They carved headphones from wood and wore them while sitting in fabricated control towers. They waved the landing signals while standing on the runways. They lit signal fires and torches to light up runways and lighthouses. In a form of sympathetic magic, many built life-size replicas of air planes out of straw and created new military-style landing strips, hoping to attract more air planes. The cult members thought that the foreigners had some special connection to the deities and ancestors of the natives, who were the only beings powerful enough to produce such riches. Interestingly, there are no reports of villagers mimicking the Japanese army. It was quickly understood by villagers that the white (US) tribe had won the conflict.

Ultimately, although these practices did not bring about the return of the air planes that brought such marvellous cargo during the war, they did have the effect of eradicating most of the religious practices that had existed prior to the war[/spoiler]

65 years later, these people are STILL to this day practising a religion they developed as a result of contact with westerners. they have built wooden air planes and wooden rifles, march in formation and practice marching drills and so on in the hopes that "the gods" (that's us) will return and bring them some more corned beef.

if we see what happened in the pacific as an example of what may have happened way back when, then the ancient accounts of "the gods" coming to our planet, seeding it, making war and teaching us all we know doesn't seem like a "story" but an actual retelling of an ancient event.


could these be replicas of ancient aircraft our ancestors witnessed?


http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... CBAQ9QEwAg

some say these are fish, birds or whatever with faces, nothing more...

http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q= ... CCsQsAQwBA

i say not.


bear in mind that the ancient Indian Sanskrit epics of the Mahabarata (which is 10 times longer than Homers Odyssey and Iliad combined) is an ancient "account" of "the gods" flying around doing damage to each other and the earth, using EXTREMELY advanced weaponry scorching everything with beams of light.


and take a look at this:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... _AbH_KTEBw

[Dubby_CompGamerGeek2]

Very interesting...

[Juliette]

Just a quick remark; have you read von Däniken, perchance?
Great man, brilliant vision. Same subject.

[[KMA]Avenger]

i've got 4 of his books and 2 of Graham Hancock's, Fingerprints of the Gods, being 1 of them.

same subjects, but i'm also using their books as references and guides for my own research which sometimes takes me along lines not followed by either EvD or GH...some VERY weird and strange history lol

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[[KMA]Avenger]

and yet, the same stories about man's origins pop up all over the world from different civilisations who supposedly had no contact with one another and spanning MANY years.

in each of the "stories" we have the same characters (same characters but with differing names obviously) and the same set of events...can you explain that mate?


how about this??

http://www.sacred-texts.com/piri/index.htm

Piri Ries, wrote on his map that he used source maps to make his now famous map, and the source maps were themselves based on even older maps.

the Hapgood Letters

[spoiler]8 RECONNAISSANCE TECHNICAL SQUADRON (SAC)
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE
Westover Air Force Base
Massachusetts

Reply to Attn of: RTC

6, July, 1960

Subject: Admiral Piri Reis World Map

To: Prof. Charles H. Hapgood
Keene Teachers College
Keene, New Hampshire

Dear Professor Hapgood,

Your request for evaluation of certain unusual features of the Piri Reis World Map of 1513 by this organization has been reviewed.

The claim that the lower part of the map portrays the Princess Martha Coast of Queen Maud Land Antarctic, and the Palmer Peninsula is reasonable. We find that this is the most logical and in all probability the correct interpretation of the map.

The geographical detail shown in the lower part of the map agrees very remarkably with the results of the Seismic profile made across the top of the ice cap by the Swedish-British-Norwegian Antarctic Expedition of 1949.

This indicates the coastline had been mapped before it was covered by the ice-cap.

The ice-cap in this region is now about a mile thick. We have no idea how the data on this map can be reconciled with the supposed state of geographical knowledge in 1513.

Harold Z. Ohlmeyer
Lt. Colonel, USAF
Commander

Later, Professor Hapgood received an even longer response from the 8th Reconnaissance Technical Squadron's Cartographic section, emphasis by webmaster[2]:

8 RECONNAISSANCE TECHNICAL SQUADRON (SAC)
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE
Westover Air Force Base, Mass.

14 Aug 61

Mr. Charles H. Hapgood
Keene Teachers College
Keene, N.H.

Dear Professor Hapgood:

It is not very often that we have an opportunity to evaluate maps of ancient origin. The Piri Reis (1513) and Oronteus Fineaus [sic] (1531) maps sent to us by you, presented a delightful challenge, for it was not readily conceivable that they could be so accurate without being forged. With added enthusiasm we accepted this challenge and have expended many off duty hours evaluating your manuscript and the above maps. I am sure you will be pleased to know we have concluded that both of these maps were compiled from accurate original source maps, irrespective of dates. The following is a brief summary of our findings:

a. The solution of the portolano projection used by Admiral Piri Reis, developed by your class in Anthropology, must be very nearly correct; for when known geographical locations are checked in relationship to the grid computed by Mr. Richard W. Strachan (MIT), there is remarkably close agreement. Piri Reis' use of the portolano projection (centered on Syene, Egypt) was an excellent choice, for it is a developable surface that would permit the relative size and shape of the earth (at that latitude) to be retained. It is our opinion that those who compiled the original map had an excellent knowledge of the continents covered by this map.

b. As stated by Colonel Harold Z. Ohlmeyer in his letter (July 6, 1960) to you, the Princess Martha Coast of Queen Maud Laud, Antarctica, appears to be truly represented on the southern sector of the Piri Reis map. The agreement of the Piri Reis Map with the seismic profile of this area made by the Norwegian-British-Swedish Expedition of 1949, supported by your solution of the grid, places beyond a reasonable doubt the conclusion that the original source maps must have been made before the present Antarctic ice cap covered the Queen Maud Land coasts.

c. It is our opinion that the accuracy of the cartographic features shown in the Oronteus Fineaus [sic] Map (1531) suggests, beyond a doubt, that it also was compiled from accurate source maps of Antarctica, but in this case of the entire continent. Close examination has proved the original source maps must have been compiled at a time when the land mass and inland waterways of the continent were relatively free of ice. This conclusion is further supported by a comparison of the Oronteus Fineaus [sic] Map with the results obtained by International Geophysical Year teams in their measurements of the subglacial topgraphy. The comparison also suggests that the original source maps (compiled in remote antiquity) were prepared when Antarctica was presumably free of ice. The Cordiform Projection used by Oronteus Fineaus [sic] suggests the use of advanced mathematics. Further, the shape given to the Antarctic continent suggests the possibility, if not the probability, that the original source maps were compiled on a stereographic or gnomic type of projection (involving the use of spherical trigonometry).

d. We are convinced that the findings made by you and your associates are valid, and that they raise extremely important questions affecting geology and ancient history, questions which certainly require further investigation.

We thank you for extending us the opportunity to have participated in the study of these maps. The following officers and airmen volunteered their time to assist Captain Lorenzo W. Burroughs in this evaluation: Captain Richard E. Covault, CWO Howard D. Minor, MSgt Clifton M. Dover, MSgt David C. Carter, TSgt James H. Hood, SSgt James L. Carroll, and A1C Don R. Vance.

LORENZO W. BURROUGHS
Captain, USAF
Chief, Cartographic Section
8th Reconnaissance Technical Sqdn (SAC)
Westover Air Force Base, Massachusetts[/spoiler]


have you read the book of Enoch by any chance?

he spoke of being taken up to the stars (or heavens) on 3 separate occasions.

also please explain to me why MANY accounts from the ancients speak of "gods" telling the people that a great catastrophe was coming and that they should prepare. IE, the ancient pyramid builders of Egypt have accounts that the "gods" told them a catastrophe/flood was coming and that they should build the pyramids and store all of man's accumulated knowledge within to preserve it for the next generation after the flood.

how about scientists finding fish and coral on mountain tops giving weight to the ancient accounts of mass flooding?


i could go on with MANY questions but i'd like to see you tackle those first

[RepliMagni]

also please explain to me why MANY accounts from the ancients speak of "gods" telling the people that a great catastrophe was coming and that they should prepare. IE, the ancient pyramid builders of Egypt have accounts that the "gods" told them a catastrophe/flood was coming and that they should build the pyramids and store all of man's accumulated knowledge within to preserve it for the next generation after the flood.

Because its easier to make people do something if they think the world is going to end. Build an ark. Build the pyramids. Give up oil.

how about scientists finding fish and coral on mountain tops giving weight to the ancient accounts of mass flooding?

What specific mountain tops? Because the earth has changed over millions of years. Oceans disappear, mountains are formed. How old are the fish findings? A few thousand years old, and hence possibly in the time of mankind? Or a few hundred million?

KMA, all of the things you have described about agriculture, astronomy, medicine, can be explained without the recourse to aliens.

[[KMA]Avenger]

well, i would give links to the science of which fish and how old the coral found on these mountains is...unfortunately, i dont have the info any more but i wouldnt have posted that info unless i was 100% convinced its not scientific peer reviewed fact, i'll try and find the info again.


as for all the arts and crafts supposedly taught to ancient man, i would agree if it weren't for the fact that these accounts span the entire globe.

[spoiler]In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. According to their traditions, the star Sirius has a companion star which is invisible to the human eye. This companion star has a 50 year elliptical orbit around the visible Sirius and is extremely heavy. It also rotates on its axis.

This legend might be of little interest to anybody but the two French anthropologists, Marcel Griaule and Germain Dieterlen, who recorded it from four Dogon priests in the 1930's. Of little interest except that it is exactly true. How did a people who lacked any kind of astronomical devices know so much about an invisible star? The star, which scientists call Sirius B, wasn't even photographed until it was done by a large telescope in 1970.

The Dogon stories explain that also. According to their oral traditions, a race people from the Sirius system called the Nommos visited Earth thousands of years ago. The Nommos were ugly, amphibious beings that resembled mermen and mermaids. They also appear in Babylonian, Accadian, and Sumerian myths. The Egyptian Goddess Isis, who is sometimes depicted as a mermaid, is also linked with the star Sirius.

The Nommos, according to the Dogon legend, lived on a planet that orbits another star in the Sirius system. They landed on Earth in an "ark" that made a spinning decent to the ground with great noise and wind. It was the Nommos that gave the Dogon the knowledge about Sirius B.

The legend goes on to say the Nommos also furnished the Dogon's with some interesting information about our own solar system: That the planet Jupiter has four major moons, that Saturn has rings and that the planets orbit the sun. These were all facts discovered by Westerners only after Galileo invented the telescope.

The story of the Dogon and their legend was first brought to popular attention by Robert K.G. Temple in a book published in 1977 called The Sirius Mystery. Science writer Ian Ridpath and astronomer Carl Sagan made a reply to Temple's book, suggesting that this modern knowledge about Sirius must have come from Westerners who discussed astronomy with the Dogon priests. The priests then included this new information into the older traditions. This, in turn, mislead the anthropologists.

This is a possibility considering Sirius B's existence was suspected as early as 1844 and seen was through a telescope in 1862. It doesn't seem to explain a 400-year old Dogon artefact that apparently depicts the Sirius configuration nor the ceremonies held by the Dogon since the 13th century to celebrate the cycle of Sirius A and B. It also doesn't explain how the Dogons knew about the super-density of Sirius B, a fact only discovered a few years before the anthropologists recorded the Dogon stories.[/spoiler]



PS, i'm not saying i am totally convinced by all the ancient accounts, but it does make for some delicious food for thought

personally, i believe something definitely happened in our past and there are WAAAY to many mysteries to be either easily or rationally explained.


PSS.

mainstream historians say that our ancestors were clueless about the stars and yet, they had advanced knowledge not only about our solar system but also about the galaxy and the universe in general....

any explanation as to how they gained such advanced knowledge?



also, were did they get the knowledge to quarry 2000 tonne blocks, let alone move such weight when we cant do that today?

and how was Machu Pichu built?

the people who supposedly built Machu Pichu didnt even have something as simple as the wheel, let alone block and tackle or cranes to get these behemoth stones up 8000ft above sea level.


all i'm doing is asking questions, because no rational explanation is good enough for the Giza Plateau, let alone a place like Machu Pichu. doesnt that then mean we should take a closer look at the ancient account of things?

[RepliMagni]

I have no doubt that there are fish remains on top of mountains. My query is simply about their age, because if they're older than human civilisation, then they have nothing to do with any supposed historic floods


2000 tonne blocks? Where are these blocks?

The blocks used in the pyramid are large, with a commonly stated average of 2.5 tons. Many blocks are indeed smaller than this, the blocks toward the top decrease in size. Some of the casing stones at the base are very large, weighing as much as 15 tons. The heaviest blocks are the granite blocks used to roof the kings chambers and the weight relieving chambers above the king’s chamber. These are estimated to weigh from 50 to 80 tons each

The next largest blocks I can remember in Egypt were the vast columns at Karnak, but even these are only estimated at 70 tonnes. So, where are these 2000 tonne blocks?


Mainstream historians? Well seeing as Copernicus was knocking around at the same era as your map, I fail to see anything revolutionary about it. Historians, even mainstream ones, are well aware of the advanced nature of some medieval observations. For example, some of their anatomical treatises were used for many centuries, and are still considered remarkably accurate.



As for Machu Pichu, most of the walls are simply dry-stone walls, much akin to any boundary wall in the English countryside. As for the heavier stones:

The Incas never used the wheel in any practical manner. Its use in toys demonstrates that the principle was well-known to them, although it was not applied in their engineering. The lack of strong draft animals as well as terrain and dense vegetation issues may have rendered it impractical. How they moved and placed enormous blocks of stones remains a mystery, although the general belief is that they used hundreds of men to push the stones up inclined planes. A few of the stones still have knobs on them that could have been used to lever them into position; it is believed that after the stones were placed, the Incas would have sanded the knobs away, but a few were overlooked.

[Apophis]

The blocks used in the pyramid are large, with a commonly stated average of 2.5 tons. Many blocks are indeed smaller than this, the blocks toward the top decrease in size. Some of the casing stones at the base are very large, weighing as much as 15 tons. The heaviest blocks are the granite blocks used to roof the kings chambers and the weight relieving chambers above the king’s chamber. These are estimated to weigh from 50 to 80 tons each

The next largest blocks I can remember in Egypt were the vast columns at Karnak, but even these are only estimated at 70 tonnes. So, where are these 2000 tonne blocks?

Commander Magni Is Correct...I Haven't Long Finished Reading A Book On Egyptology And I Recall This Being Mentioned

[Apophis]

Here are the vital statistics on the the Great Pyramis at Giza - the largest of all the pyramids built by the ancient Egyptians.

Original height: 481 feet (146.6meters)

Present height: 451 feet (137.5 meters)

Ground surface area: 13 acres, which, it has been calculated, could accommodate St. Peter's Church in rome, Westminster Abbey and St. Paul's Cathedral in London, and the cathedrals of Milan and Florence.

Length of sides: basically 755 ft (230 m) with a variation between the longest and the shortest side of only 8 inches (20.3 cm)

It is known that there rises within the mass of the pyramid a huge natural rock of unknown dimensions.

Number of blocks used to build it: somewhere in the region of 2 million three hundred thousand separate blocks is the usual figure suggested, each averaging about two and a half tons in weight with a maximum of 15 tons. ( Not including the Granite Blocks That Were Used)

There is no pyramid larger than the Great pyramid. If the ancient Egyptians wanted to build a larger pyramid they could have, but they didn't.

[[KMA]Avenger]

hmmm...after a couple hours of research i find my own research on a couple of matters needs to be shall we say...more thorough with regards to the ancient megaliths

anyways, the 2000 tonne block i was referring to is this one:

http://godssecret.files.wordpress.com/2 ... es-500.jpg

however, the estimates for the weight of the stone have been recently...readjusted, which i wasn't aware of till tonight.
the upper limit for the weight of the stone (2000) was guessed at by the looks of it, but now the weight is estimated to be 1158 tonnes, some others say the weight is 1200 tonnes, yet others say 1300 tonnes. so lets agree that the weight of the stone is 1158 tonnes to save any arguments. 1 things for sure, all estimates say its over 1100 tonnes from what i have been able to find out.

i also never said that the stone i was referring to was in Egypt or had anything to do with the pyramids.
as far as the pyramids are concerned, the heaviest stone (not granite or anything else) inside the great pyramid is estimated at 80 tonnes and makes up part of whats known as the grand gallery, i believe thats what it called.

anyways, the Baalbeck stone is not unique, there are other stones ranging from 100 tonnes to over 800 tonnes and these are all over the world...

and just for the record mates, the largest pyramid in the world is not Egyptian


its here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Cholula

if you mean by height, then i have to look into it, but as far as volume goes, thats the biggest.


something else of interest you guys might want to look into:

Puma Punku
[spoiler]Puma Punku, truly startles the imagination. It seems to be the remains of a great wharf (for Lake Titicaca long ago lapped upon the shores of Tiahuanaco) and a massive, four-part, now collapsed building. One of the construction blocks from which the pier was fashioned weighs an estimated 440 tons (equal to nearly 600 full-size cars) and several other blocks laying about are between 100 and 150 tons. The quarry for these giant blocks was on the western shore of Titicaca, some ten miles away. There is no known technology in all the ancient world that could have transported stones of such massive weight and size. The Andean people of 500 AD, with their simple reed boats, could certainly not have moved them. Even today, with all the modern advances in engineering and mathematics, we could not fashion such a structure.

How were these monstrous stones moved and what was their purpose?
Posnansky suggested an answer, based upon his studies of the astronomical alignments of Tiahuanaco, but that answer is considered so controversial, even impossible, that it has been ignored and censured by the scientific community for fifty years.[/spoiler]

[RepliMagni]

Just from a quick bit of poking around before bed:

The Baalbek stone was never actually moved though was it? It was found in the quarry, still attached to the rock they were quarrying it from? Impressive in its scale and their ability to achieve such clear lines, but it was not actually moved. You're then going down to around 800 tonnes for the other stones that were moved....again impressive, but I'm not sure how far they were moved?

As for the Puma Punka, I found this on wiki about it:
[spoiler]The largest of these stone blocks is 7.81 meters long, 5.17 meters wide, averages 1.07 meters thick, and is estimated to weigh about 131 metric tons. The second largest stone block found within the Pumapunka is 7.90 meters long, 2.50 meters wide, and averages 1.86 meters thick. Its weight has been estimated to be 85.21 metric tons. Both of these stone blocks are part of the Plataforma Lítica and composed of red sandstone.[4] Based upon detailed petrographic and chemical analyses of samples from both individual stones and known quarry sites, archaeologists concluded that these and other red sandstone blocks were transported up a steep incline from a quarry near Lake Titicaca roughly 10 km away. Smaller andesite blocks that were used for stone facing and carvings came from quarries within the Copacabana Peninsula about 90 km away from and across Lake Titicaca from the Pumapunka and the rest of the Tiwanaku Site.[2][4]

Archaeologists argue that the transport of these stones was accomplished by the large labor force of ancient Tiwanaku. Several theories have been proposed as to how this labor force transported the stones although these theories remain speculative. Two of the more common proposals involve the use of llama skin ropes and the use of ramps and inclined planes.[8][/spoiler]

It is certainly conceivable that they could move these things.

[Apophis]

Interesting Article On The Pyramid of Cholula

[Juliette]

Shush, Magniman. [spoiler]3) The Ramesseum, Egypt - The Ramesseum is the memorial temple of Pharaoh Ramesses II. Originally called the House of millions of years of Usermaatra-setepenra that unites with Thebes-the-city in the domain of Amon.

In front of the ruins is the base of the colossus of Ramesses. On the granite colossus's shoulder is an inscription describing Ramesses as the "sun of Princes". The statue fell into the Second Court and the head and torso remain there, but the other broken pieces are in museums all over the world.

Only fragments of the base and torso remain of the colossal statue of the enthroned Ramasses, (19m high and weighing around 1000 tons). The stone for the statue was transported 170 miles over land from Aswan to Thebes. This would have once been the largest statue (except statues carved in situ) in the world.[/spoiler]Uhh.. win. 1Mg, moved over 170 miles? Kewl! Must've been some boat ride over the Nile.. But wait! That's not it.

[spoiler]4) The Colossi of Memnon, Egypt. -
These two giants were built from a single piece of stone each. They are orientated towards the sunrise at winter solstice (12)

Estimates: 2 x 1,000 tons (11), 2 x 600 tons (2)

(Inter. Herald Tribune (22/23 Dec 1973).) - 720 tons

(R. T. Gould; A book of Marvels; 1937, p. 133.) - 1200 tons.

The statues are made from blocks of quartzite sandstone which was stone quarried at el-Gabal el Ahmar (near modern-day Cairo) and transported 420 miles over land without using the Nile to Thebes. They are too heavy to transport upstream on the Nile. The mortuary temple, built for the eighteenth-dynasty king Amenhotep III (c. 1390-1352 BC), that once stood behind these two figures was completely stripped for its masonry.[/spoiler] Those are quite the rocks, even by the lightest estimates. 420 miles over land?


Anyway. Gods? Anything, or anyone, in possession of sufficiently advanced technology, will appear at first a 'wizard' and, as their technology is more and more beyond the imagination of their contemporaries, ultimately divine.
Of course, it helps when such technology is internalised, integrated in the one possessing it. But then, a space suit for example, would we recognise that it's a suit, and not the being itself? And we all know how much tech we can stuff into a suit already. Oh well.. to each their own conclusions.




But I'll say this. If those monuments are strictly of human origin (that they built them is beyond contest, but what inspired them, that is what I mean with "of human origin"), we as a species have lost our sense of imagination. Big shame. We should build ourselves a monument and be the envy of .. well .. the world. Why not? We're not that unique. Act out. Build a monument.