another POV

[Hitchkok]

I just like to point out that even were KMA to produce such a film, he would yet have to proof that the pictures shown in the link i provided (i.e, market stalls filled with food in Gaza, children undergoing weapons training by Hamas and Hamas using civilians as human shields) are, as he so eloquently put it, **Filtered**.

[Thriller]

Good job hitch demonizing your enemy, and rallying the troops to right their injustice.

Now i will provide context.

Hamas is a counterpoint to Zionism. and vice versa

If you don't know what the rhetoric of the two sides are, then look them up. (hitch may even be the latter)

Hitchcock is just escalating a battle of philosophical idiocy that has been going on ever since The British government granted the Jewish people that piece of land(they would have been better off to choose miami or maybe a peice of mexico). Being forcedly relocated from your land will bring about a few grudges(just ask the aboriginals) and the outrage the native inhabitants had at their expulsion has now been politicized to spread to most of Islam(good job england).

Palestinian anger is exploited through the Islamic political agenda and expresses itself through groups like Hamas to perpetuate acts of violence and negate communication with a perceived enemy in the Jewish community.

Meanwhile on the other side of the concrete slabs with the barbwire.......,

Zionist dogma continues to push for Israeli borders expansion past what the British first allocated and Jewish leaders first agreed upon. While encouraging Israeli interference and suppression of Palestinian rights and freedoms.

Creating a HATE feedback loop or retarded efficiency and scope.



The adherence to this politio-idiocracy continues to set a precedent that's goal continues the advocation of a false dichotomy. This logical fallacy continues a history of exaggerating the differences and understating the commonalities. Making chances of non violent resolution ever more difficult. Because peace becomes almost impossible when both sides are so jaded they can no longer see the good in one another.

This ignorance only works as a shadow under which the Palestinian and Israeli people will continue to suffer the ideology of fools unnoticed.

[Juliette]

<excellent post>

Might as well try to convince a misogynist that women are human beings worthy of respect and courtesy.
I can hear the replies coming now: "You just don't understand the issue, Thriller." "Don't be ridiculous, Thriller." "What makes you think you can judge us, Thriller?"
You will be out-rationalised, because by Jove, we need a reason for being. Even if that reason for being is to deny others theirs for no reason but some crazy tradition.

[Hitchkok]

Good job hitch demonizing your enemy, and rallying the troops to right their injustice.

Now i will provide context.

Hamas is a counterpoint to Zionism. and vice versa

If you don't know what the rhetoric of the two sides are, then look them up. (hitch may even be the latter)

Hitchkok is just escalating a battle of philosophical idiocy
i wish it was only a philosophical battle
that has been going on ever since The British government
i believe you mean the UN
granted the Jewish people that piece of land(they would have been better off to choose miami or maybe a peice of mexico). Being forcedly relocated from your land will bring about a few grudges(just ask the aboriginals) and the outrage the native inhabitants had at their expulsion has now been politicized to spread to most of Islam(good job england).
as you explein in the next paragraph, the situation is the other way around

Palestinian anger is exploited through the Islamic political agenda and expresses itself through groups like Hamas to perpetuate acts of violence and negate communication with a perceived enemy in the Jewish community.

Meanwhile on the other side of the concrete slabs with the barbwire.......,

Zionist dogma continues to push for Israeli borders expansion past what the British first allocated and Jewish leaders first agreed upon.
that is total **Filtered**
While encouraging Israeli interference and suppression of Palestinian rights and freedoms.
as is this
Creating a HATE feedback loop or retarded efficiency and scope.


The adherence to this politio-idiocracy continues to set a precedent that's goal continues the advocation of a false dichotomy.
I, as most Israely citizens and Israel supporters, advocate a two state solution. youd be hard pressed to find a palestinian that advocates the same
This logical fallacy continues a history of exaggerating the differences and understating the commonalities. Making chances of non violent resolution ever more difficult. Because peace becomes almost impossible when both sides are so jaded they can no longer see the good in one another.

This ignorance only works as a shadow under which the Palestinian and Israeli people will continue to suffer the ideology of fools unnoticed.

the intention of the video was not to demonize the palestinian people, but to show that Hamas is a force against the peace and prosperity of its own people, and to debunk some lies regarding the situation in Gaza.

<excellent post>

Might as well try to convince a misogynist that women are human beings worthy of respect and courtesy.
I can hear the replies coming now: "You just don't understand the issue, Thriller." "Don't be ridiculous, Thriller." "What makes you think you can judge us, Thriller?"
You will be out-rationalised, because by Jove, we need a reason for being. Even if that reason for being is to deny others theirs for no reason but some crazy tradition.

hope youre happy, no rationalisation there. just cold hard facts.

[LegendaryA]

I'm curious about something, if locating them in Palestine, (which happens to be motherland of the Hebrew) was a bad idea, where should they have been located instead?
And well, I'm sure you would like to say "why should they be relocated?". I think that some of Jewish people don't mind to live in a country far from "motherland", they did so for a while and will keep doing so, being integrated completly for centuries wherever they currently live, but for the others...well. They don't even have a nation where they can share their culture. Christians have many countries, like Islam, Buddhism...but Jews didn't.
See what I'm talking about? And yes, I know I'm not really the person who can be the most "professional" about it given it's bit off my regular positions, but I can see their point of view, and given what they just suffered from prior to creation of Israel, it's what makes it so specific.

[Thriller]

Yah your exactly right your awesome and they suck.

oh and it was a UN resolution but it was a British initiative that won that vote.

That land was under the control of the Ottoman Empire, which ruled the region from about 1200 c.e until the 20th century. Before that the Byzantines around 635 ce. during the initial Muslim conquests. Before that the Romans.....

Thats a thousand plus years of non Jewish heritage in the area. The situation is not the other way around. Your country annexed the land and deposed the inhabitants. Your two state solution just illustrates you still don't want to share.

My post was spot on.

THE MUSLIMS Being forcedly relocated from your land will bring about a few grudges(just ask the aboriginals) and the outrage the native inhabitants had at their expulsion has now been politicized to spread to most of Islam(good job england).

i fixed this for you so you would understand.

[Hitchkok]

I'm curious about something, if locating them in Palestine, (which happens to be motherland of the Hebrew) was a bad idea, where should they have been located instead?
And well, I'm sure you would like to say "why should they be relocated?". I think that some of Jewish people don't mind to live in a country far from "motherland", they did so for a while and will keep doing so, being integrated completly for centuries wherever they currently live, but for the others...well. They don't even have a nation where they can share their culture. Christians have many countries, like Islam, Buddhism...but Jews didn't.
See what I'm talking about? And yes, I know I'm not really the person who can be the most "pro" about it, because that isn't something I'm into, but I can see their point of view.

as to the "where" question, i think we can all agree that it is pretty much a waste of time. first of all, as you said, it is the motherland, and secondly, i'm pretty sure there wasn't any one habitable piece of land in the 1940's that was not habitated.
as for the "why" question.
the decision to found a state for the jewish people was due to incidents of antisemitism throghout euorope during the later 1800's and earlier 1900's. incidents ranging from the trial of captain Alfred Dreyfus, to the holocaust.
now, many accuse israel of cynically using the holocaust. so let me just say that: i see no better reason to allow for a minority group a sovereign state than to protect it from genocide. my view is that this is the reason Israel was founded, and all the justification it needs to exist. if anyone disagrees feel free to state your objections.
having said that, neither minor antisemitic incidents, nor the holocaust can be used as justification to cause unneccessery harm to any other people, or person. and, as any objective committe concluded (such as the UN commisioned british committe a couple of weeks ago), no such harm is caused. this is what the video illustrates.
no, Gaza is not a western nation, with mc'cdonalds and junkfood at any street corner. but there is no shortage of basic food supplies.
no, not all palestinian patients are helicoptered to a nearby israely hospital. but many of them are. and anyway, good luck getting medical treatment in the USA if you happen to be Cuban.
yes, some people are detained in check points. but guess what, when they weren't, busses and coffe houses where suicide bombed on a daily basis.

as i said, i'm not out to demonize the palestinian people.
but remember one thing: Hamas is a recognized terrorist organisation, who had taken responsibility for tens, if not hundredsof terrorist acts.
it also killes any Fatah supporters it can find in Gaza.
and, one can't help but thinking, if people are starving in Gaza, where does Hamas leaders get those expensive looking suits?

[LegendaryA]

I'm curious about something, if locating them in Palestine, (which happens to be motherland of the Hebrew) was a bad idea, where should they have been located instead?
And well, I'm sure you would like to say "why should they be relocated?". I think that some of Jewish people don't mind to live in a country far from "motherland", they did so for a while and will keep doing so, being integrated completly for centuries wherever they currently live, but for the others...well. They don't even have a nation where they can share their culture. Christians have many countries, like Islam, Buddhism...but Jews didn't.
See what I'm talking about? And yes, I know I'm not really the person who can be the most "pro" about it, because that isn't something I'm into, but I can see their point of view.

as to the "where" question, i think we can all agree that it is pretty much a waste of time. first of all, as you said, it is the motherland, and secondly, i'm pretty sure there wasn't any one habitable piece of land in the 1940's that was not habitated.
as for the "why" question.
the decision to found a state for the jewish people was due to incidents of antisemitism throghout euorope during the later 1800's and earlier 1900's. incidents ranging from the trial of captain Alfred Dreyfus, to the holocaust.
now, many accuse israel of cynically using the holocaust. so let me just say that: i see no better reason to allow for a minority group a sovereign state than to protect it from genocide. my view is that this is the reason Israel was founded, and all the justification it needs to exist. if anyone disagrees feel free to state your objections.
having said that, neither minor antisemitic incidents, nor the holocaust can be used as justification to cause unneccessery harm to any other people, or person. and, as any objective committe concluded (such as the UN commisioned british committe a couple of weeks ago), no such harm is caused. this is what the video illustrates.
no, Gaza is not a western nation, with mc'cdonalds and junkfood at any street corner. but there is no shortage of basic food supplies.
no, not all palestinian patients are helicoptered to a nearby israely hospital. but many of them are. and anyway, good luck getting medical treatment in the USA if you happen to be Cuban.
yes, some people are detained in check points. but guess what, when they weren't, busses and coffe houses where suicide bombed on a daily basis.

as i said, i'm not out to demonize the palestinian people.
but remember one thing: Hamas is a recognized terrorist organisation, who had taken responsibility for tens, if not hundredsof terrorist acts.
it also killes any Fatah supporters it can find in Gaza.
and, one can't help but thinking, if people are starving in Gaza, where does Hamas leaders get those expensive looking suits?

Well, thanks for the answer, that's more or less what I'm thinking, I was looking for Thriller's given his post.
And good to mention Fatah, I was hesitating to mention them, former militarian movement that pushed for Palestine freedom, which then became a political party considered as secular (obviously most members are muslims, but you get the difference compared to Hamas which doesn't miss opportunity to remind their islam-ism) and stopped being as radical as they used to, and could be considered as the current most reliable and credible party as of now in Palestinian important parties, despite fact they indeed have armed milites as well. Pushing for independance through dialog and political means, unlike Hamas, resorting mainly to terror and terrorism.

[Hitchkok]

I'm curious about something, if locating them in Palestine, (which happens to be motherland of the Hebrew) was a bad idea, where should they have been located instead?
And well, I'm sure you would like to say "why should they be relocated?". I think that some of Jewish people don't mind to live in a country far from "motherland", they did so for a while and will keep doing so, being integrated completly for centuries wherever they currently live, but for the others...well. They don't even have a nation where they can share their culture. Christians have many countries, like Islam, Buddhism...but Jews didn't.
See what I'm talking about? And yes, I know I'm not really the person who can be the most "pro" about it, because that isn't something I'm into, but I can see their point of view.

as to the "where" question, i think we can all agree that it is pretty much a waste of time. first of all, as you said, it is the motherland, and secondly, i'm pretty sure there wasn't any one habitable piece of land in the 1940's that was not habitated.
as for the "why" question.
the decision to found a state for the jewish people was due to incidents of antisemitism throghout euorope during the later 1800's and earlier 1900's. incidents ranging from the trial of captain Alfred Dreyfus, to the holocaust.
now, many accuse israel of cynically using the holocaust. so let me just say that: i see no better reason to allow for a minority group a sovereign state than to protect it from genocide. my view is that this is the reason Israel was founded, and all the justification it needs to exist. if anyone disagrees feel free to state your objections.
having said that, neither minor antisemitic incidents, nor the holocaust can be used as justification to cause unneccessery harm to any other people, or person. and, as any objective committe concluded (such as the UN commisioned british committe a couple of weeks ago), no such harm is caused. this is what the video illustrates.
no, Gaza is not a western nation, with mc'cdonalds and junkfood at any street corner. but there is no shortage of basic food supplies.
no, not all palestinian patients are helicoptered to a nearby israely hospital. but many of them are. and anyway, good luck getting medical treatment in the USA if you happen to be Cuban.
yes, some people are detained in check points. but guess what, when they weren't, busses and coffe houses where suicide bombed on a daily basis.

as i said, i'm not out to demonize the palestinian people.
but remember one thing: Hamas is a recognized terrorist organisation, who had taken responsibility for tens, if not hundredsof terrorist acts.
it also killes any Fatah supporters it can find in Gaza.
and, one can't help but thinking, if people are starving in Gaza, where does Hamas leaders get those expensive looking suits?

Well, thanks for the answer, that's more or less what I'm thinking, I was looking for Thriller's given his post.
And good to mention Fatah, I was hesitating to mention them, former militarian movement that pushed for Palestine freedom, which then became a political party considered as secular (obviously most members are muslims, but you get the difference compared to Hamas which doesn't miss opportunity to remind their islam-ism) and stopped being as radical as they used to, and could be considered as the current most reliable and credible party as of now in Palestinian important parties, despite fact they indeed have armed milites as well.

don't make it a religious issus (that's not allowed anymore, you know).
it is not. it is a purely nationalistic issue, that some religious opportunists are riding.

[Thriller]

I would love Hitchcock to defend that region as his Jewish motherland. Having not had control over it for more than a millennium

oh read my above response post as well hitch, i got brushed under the rug.

[LegendaryA]

don't make it a religious issus (that's not allowed anymore, you know).
it is not. it is a purely nationalistic issue, that some religious opportunists are riding.

That's going to be a terribly hard section to post within the (new) rules for me, lol.

Nationalism indeed, considering how much there's meaning in the use of Palestinian flag across the world. (a flag isn't nationalism, but the way you use it, can be)

[Hitchkok]

just to clarify, my comment is regarding the bolded part.

Being forcedly relocated from your land will bring about a few grudges(just ask the aboriginals) and the outrage the native inhabitants had at their expulsion has now been politicized to spread to most of Islam (good job england).
as you explein in the next paragraph, the situation is the other way around

Palestinian anger is exploited through the Islamic political agenda and expresses itself through groups like Hamas to perpetuate acts of violence and negate communication with a perceived enemy in the Jewish community.
.

simply put:
the relocation of palestinians did not bring about the muslim tide.
it is a tool, cynically used by fundemental muslims, which care not one bit for ths fate of the palestinians

[Thriller]

How about you answer the question about why your Zionism is justified but their vitriolic politic is not?

You need to take a long look out your window before i start posting independent articles about the living conditions in Palestine and Expansionist Jewish communities set up through the Palestinian area.

For some reason their seems to be this stop gap between an Israeli settlements water availability in the Palestine area and those of a local neighboring Palestinian communities availability. It's a real puzzle? Who controls the drinking water basins?

[Hitchkok]

How about you answer the question about why your Zionism is justified but their vitriolic politic is not?

it is.
but as i said, I, as most Israely citizens and Israel supporters, advocate a two state solution. youd be hard pressed to find a palestinian that advocates the same.
it is actually in both Hamas and Fatah charter. "the land under the british mandate is an undivisable unit" (OK, not an actual exact quote, but i did post the exact quote somewhere, and that's the spirit of it).
and what is really unjustifiable, is their acts of terrorism.

You need to take a long look out your window before i start posting independent articles about the living conditions in Palestine and Expansionist Jewish communities set up thought the Palestinian area.
a) you have to distinguish between an israely settelment, supported by the government, and some out law vigilantes that construct a couple of cabins on a hill.
b) let's consider the term "palestinian area". there was never a sovereign palestinian state. the land you are referring to was taken by Israel from Jordan, during the six day war, in 1967. the area you call palestinian area is an area which Israel has decided to found a palestinian autonomy upon.
For some reason their seems to be this stop gap between an Israeli settlements water availability in the Palestine area and those of a local neighboring Palestinian communities availability. It's a real puzzle?
it's no puzzle at all, actually. israely settelments are the responsibility of the Israely government, which spends resources to construct infrastructures (again, excluding the fools on the hills). Palestinian settelments are the responsibility of the palestinian authority, which, apparently, doesn't. again, isn't the difference between water availability in the US and water availability in Cuba or Mexico a real puzzle?

[Thriller]

How about you answer the question about why your Zionism is justified but their vitriolic politic is not?

it is.
but as i said, I, as most Israely citizens and Israel supporters, advocate a two state solution. youd be hard pressed to find a palestinian that advocates the same.
it is actually in both Hamas and Fatah charter. "the land under the british mandate is an undivisable unit" (OK, not an actual exact quote, but i did post the exact quote somewhere, and that's the spirit of it).
and what is really unjustifiable, is their acts of terrorism.

That Israel helps to propagate through their ideologically pigheadedness and unwillingness to make concession on important issues with the Palestinian people.

FEED BACK CYCLE,

try focusing on what you have to common pl0x