someone needs to slap Israel and the US...BIG TIME!

[MEZZANINE]

lol lets just kill everyone who was indoctrinated with different ideals, values, and beliefs to us, first start with the religious nuts, then the different ideologies, then the different ethnicity, then those who speak different languages and so on until we kill each other for having different musical tastes


Ever heard the theory that we all just programmed machines, our programming is our upbringing, our education, our environment, if I was born in the middle east I would be just like them, by random chance I was born in the UK so I am as I am. We dont chose to hate or disapprove of those different so it's really not our fault if we want their primitive ways destroyed, or their fault if they want us godless heathens to covert or die. I like this theory, it's a great cop out

My money is on headbangers to rule the world...

Well Im an old school raver, love, hugs, peace and drugs. Guess that means Im stuffed when the fighting gets down to musical tastes, but at least I will go down dancing, smoking & screwing

[Thriller]

Quit not thinking about the consequences of your actions.

Please answer the same question i asked KMA.
But replace UK with Canada

Everyone likes Canada, so i don't have anything to worry about.

Your anologie wasn't very good anyway Hitch, more of a fools wager than solid argument. I'd stay away from hypotheticals.

The facts are that they don't have nuclear weapons and the UN is trying to stop them from developing one. They won't nuke you because that would be the end of Iran. I also don't beleive they have stones to kill all those palestinians aswell.

Any antangonising on isreal's part is counterproductive to the UN effort.

[Hitchkok]

Quit not thinking about the consequences of your actions.

Please answer the same question i asked KMA.
But replace UK with Canada

Everyone likes Canada, so i don't have anything to worry about.

Your anologie wasn't very good anyway Hitch, more of a fools wager than solid argument. I'd stay away from hypotheticals.

The facts are that they don't have nuclear weapons and the UN is trying to stop them from developing one. They won't nuke you because that would be the end of Iran. I also don't beleive they have stones to kill all those palestinians aswell.

Any antangonising on isreal's part is counterproductive to the UN effort.

What analogie?
Would someone please give me a solid yes or no answer, would you or would you not expect your government to take any and every steps to insure your safety against threats?
And i'm not talking hypothetical, according-to-analysts threats, either. I'm talking threats explicitly stated on the UN, by the threatening party.

[Thriller]

The question itself is misleading and constructed to sway others over to your point of view.(fools wager)

What were the circumstances leading up to this threat on my nation?
Why does Iran hate my country?
IS their any diplomatic solutions available?
Why am i asking for details about a stupid hypotheical situation?

[KnowLedge]

Hail Israel.

for once we agree with tyou

Quit not thinking about the consequences of your actions.

Please answer the same question i asked KMA.
But replace UK with Canada

Everyone likes Canada, so i don't have anything to worry about.

u know the only ppl are that hate canada? Everyone inside it.. i ahte their stupid tax and other costs!!!!!

we gotta bring back communism

[Hitchkok]

The question itself is misleading and constructed to sway others over to your point of view.(fools wager)

What were the circumstances leading up to this threat on my nation?
Why does Iran hate my country?
IS their any diplomatic solutions available?
Why am i asking for details about a stupid hypotheical situation?

well, tell me what you think.

What were the circumstances leading up to this threat on Israel?

Why does Iran hate Israel (and remember: up until the last revolution in Iran, Israel and Iran had an alliance)?

are their any diplomatic solutions available?

why is this hypothetical question stupid?

AND: assuming Israel IS at fault for the threat (and, quite frankly, excluding an all out attack (or a threat of one), I can't really see any justification for such a threat), does it mean it should NOT do all it can in order to defend itself?

and also:
why is my question misleading?
what is wrong (in a general inteligent discussion) with presenting my point of view? (can any one present their point of view without trying, on some level, to convince others?)

[[KMA]Avenger]

KMA, let me ask you one question.
and i would like a simple yes or no answer.
Assume there was a nation, a member of the UN, that consistently and publicly (in the UN assembly, no less) called for the destruction of the UK, by any means possible.
Assume that this country has given the international community every reason to believe that it is developing nuclear weapons, and will use it for its goals.
One of these goals, i remind you, is the destruction of the UK.

And, please give me a clear cut, yes or no answer, to this question:
Would you or would you not expect the UK government to use any and every means at its disposal to neutralise this threat to its citizens?

in reality, cant give you a yes or no answer because its not that simple...


now, hypothetically speaking...yes, i would expect the entire civilised world to neutralize such a threat...HOWEVER...with the exception of them making it publicly known they want the west's destruction, all of the above is not true, they have no nuke and no way of producing a nuke...so your question is pointless since you obviously set out to prove a point (something that hasn't escaped me when i wrote the opening post) and didn't....unless you have proof they have a nuke or the capacity to produce one?


anyways, you forget, Iran isnt a push over like Afghan and Iraq, these guys have trade deals with Russia and China, and unless you guys back off, this generation will sooner or later be facing ist own "Cuban missile crises" because you guys don't know when to quit!

you said "have no nuke, and no way of producing a nuke".
well, the UN seems to differ on this point.

you said "with the exception of them making it known that they want the west's destruction".
well, they made it known that they want Israel's destruction. why should Israel agree to that? should Israel be for Iran what Czechoslovakia was for Nazi germany?

and again, if Iran consistently and publicly called for the destruction of the UK (as it does with Israel), under the current situation you describe, you would expect the UK to "back off" or "quit" (and, pray tell, "back off" or "quit" what exactly?)?

oh please! you think the Iranian people are so dumb as to want to effectively commit suicide?
during the cold war, the Russians had more nukes than the rest of the world and they didnt do anything as dumb as what you seem to think the Iranians are hell bent on doing...stop listening to your Govts BS!

as for the UN...dont make me laugh!

[Hitchkok]

KMA, let me ask you one question.
and i would like a simple yes or no answer.
Assume there was a nation, a member of the UN, that consistently and publicly (in the UN assembly, no less) called for the destruction of the UK, by any means possible.
Assume that this country has given the international community every reason to believe that it is developing nuclear weapons, and will use it for its goals.
One of these goals, i remind you, is the destruction of the UK.

And, please give me a clear cut, yes or no answer, to this question:
Would you or would you not expect the UK government to use any and every means at its disposal to neutralise this threat to its citizens?

in reality, cant give you a yes or no answer because its not that simple...


now, hypothetically speaking...yes, i would expect the entire civilised world to neutralize such a threat...HOWEVER...with the exception of them making it publicly known they want the west's destruction, all of the above is not true, they have no nuke and no way of producing a nuke...so your question is pointless since you obviously set out to prove a point (something that hasn't escaped me when i wrote the opening post) and didn't....unless you have proof they have a nuke or the capacity to produce one?


anyways, you forget, Iran isnt a push over like Afghan and Iraq, these guys have trade deals with Russia and China, and unless you guys back off, this generation will sooner or later be facing ist own "Cuban missile crises" because you guys don't know when to quit!

you said "have no nuke, and no way of producing a nuke".
well, the UN seems to differ on this point.

you said "with the exception of them making it known that they want the west's destruction".
well, they made it known that they want Israel's destruction. why should Israel agree to that? should Israel be for Iran what Czechoslovakia was for Nazi germany?

and again, if Iran consistently and publicly called for the destruction of the UK (as it does with Israel), under the current situation you describe, you would expect the UK to "back off" or "quit" (and, pray tell, "back off" or "quit" what exactly?)?

oh please! you think the Iranian people are so dumb as to want to effectively commit suicide?

you're forgetting something:
IRAN ISN'T A DEMOCRACHY!!!!!
it is a beurocratic theocrachy. and as such, cares more about both the survival of the regime and its alleged "religious duties" than it does for the life of it's citizens.
Ahmedinjad had said: "dropping a nuclear bomb on Tel-Aviv will result in the death of 1 million Israelies and 50 million Iranians. AND IT WILL BE WORTH IT" ( quoting from memory).

and you still haven't answered my question.

[Thriller]

The question itself is misleading and constructed to sway others over to your point of view.(fools wager)

What were the circumstances leading up to this threat on my nation?
Why does Iran hate my country?
IS their any diplomatic solutions available?
Why am i asking for details about a stupid hypotheical situation?

well, tell me what you think.

What were the circumstances leading up to this threat on Israel?

Why does Iran hate Israel (and remember: up until the last revolution in Iran, Israel and Iran had an alliance)?

are their any diplomatic solutions available?

why is this hypothetical question stupid?

AND: assuming Israel IS at fault for the threat (and, quite frankly, excluding an all out attack (or a threat of one), I can't really see any justification for such a threat), does it mean it should NOT do all it can in order to defend itself?

and also:
why is my question misleading?
what is wrong (in a general inteligent discussion) with presenting my point of view? (can any one present their point of view without trying, on some level, to convince others?)

It's a loaded question hitch

Iran is not going to nuke you and your not going to nuke them... MAD is alive and well.

Israel is just beating it's chest while undermining the UN authority... same old same

[[KMA]Avenger]

KMA, let me ask you one question.
and i would like a simple yes or no answer.
Assume there was a nation, a member of the UN, that consistently and publicly (in the UN assembly, no less) called for the destruction of the UK, by any means possible.
Assume that this country has given the international community every reason to believe that it is developing nuclear weapons, and will use it for its goals.
One of these goals, i remind you, is the destruction of the UK.

And, please give me a clear cut, yes or no answer, to this question:
Would you or would you not expect the UK government to use any and every means at its disposal to neutralise this threat to its citizens?

in reality, cant give you a yes or no answer because its not that simple...


now, hypothetically speaking...yes, i would expect the entire civilised world to neutralize such a threat...HOWEVER...with the exception of them making it publicly known they want the west's destruction, all of the above is not true, they have no nuke and no way of producing a nuke...so your question is pointless since you obviously set out to prove a point (something that hasn't escaped me when i wrote the opening post) and didn't....unless you have proof they have a nuke or the capacity to produce one?


anyways, you forget, Iran isnt a push over like Afghan and Iraq, these guys have trade deals with Russia and China, and unless you guys back off, this generation will sooner or later be facing ist own "Cuban missile crises" because you guys don't know when to quit!

you said "have no nuke, and no way of producing a nuke".
well, the UN seems to differ on this point.

you said "with the exception of them making it known that they want the west's destruction".
well, they made it known that they want Israel's destruction. why should Israel agree to that? should Israel be for Iran what Czechoslovakia was for Nazi germany?

and again, if Iran consistently and publicly called for the destruction of the UK (as it does with Israel), under the current situation you describe, you would expect the UK to "back off" or "quit" (and, pray tell, "back off" or "quit" what exactly?)?

oh please! you think the Iranian people are so dumb as to want to effectively commit suicide?

you're forgetting something:
IRAN ISN'T A DEMOCRACHY!!!!!
it is a beurocratic theocrachy. and as such, cares more about both the survival of the regime and its alleged "religious duties" than it does for the life of it's citizens.
Ahmedinjad had said: "dropping a nuclear bomb on Tel-Aviv will result in the death of 1 million Israelies and 50 million Iranians. AND IT WILL BE WORTH IT" ( quoting from memory).

and you still haven't answered my question.

humans are still humans regardless of religion, and as you know, one of man's basic wants is to live. Ahmadinejad maybe suicidal, to the point he couldn't careless if his people burned but his people wont feel that way about him...i assure you.

so, let me get this straight, your nation wants to risk war with both Russia and China because of some dodgy dimwit in the UN "thinks" Iran has a nuke when they have no such capability or any way to produce such a delivery system, never mind any way to purify the radioactive material???


what question haven't i answered?

the problem here is that Israel is trying to force the hand of the US and have them go at it with Iran, they've wanted this since the mid 60's.



edit:

ROFL!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -past.html




edited title to something more appropriate because its not just Israel doing this and i should have made that clear from the outset.

[TimeGap]

lol lets just kill everyone who was indoctrinated with different ideals, values, and beliefs to us, first start with the religious nuts, then the different ideologies, then the different ethnicity, then those who speak different languages and so on until we kill each other for having different musical tastes


Ever heard the theory that we all just programmed machines, our programming is our upbringing, our education, our environment, if I was born in the middle east I would be just like them, by random chance I was born in the UK so I am as I am. We dont chose to hate or disapprove of those different so it's really not our fault if we want their primitive ways destroyed, or their fault if they want us godless heathens to covert or die. I like this theory, it's a great cop out

ROFL, Well untill it gets down to that, we can share a toilet seat and a joint

My money is on headbangers to rule the world...

Well Im an old school raver, love, hugs, peace and drugs. Guess that means Im stuffed when the fighting gets down to musical tastes, but at least I will go down dancing, smoking & screwing

[Hitchkok]

[spoiler]

KMA, let me ask you one question.
and i would like a simple yes or no answer.
Assume there was a nation, a member of the UN, that consistently and publicly (in the UN assembly, no less) called for the destruction of the UK, by any means possible.
Assume that this country has given the international community every reason to believe that it is developing nuclear weapons, and will use it for its goals.
One of these goals, i remind you, is the destruction of the UK.

And, please give me a clear cut, yes or no answer, to this question:
Would you or would you not expect the UK government to use any and every means at its disposal to neutralise this threat to its citizens?

in reality, cant give you a yes or no answer because its not that simple...


now, hypothetically speaking...yes, i would expect the entire civilised world to neutralize such a threat...HOWEVER...with the exception of them making it publicly known they want the west's destruction, all of the above is not true, they have no nuke and no way of producing a nuke...so your question is pointless since you obviously set out to prove a point (something that hasn't escaped me when i wrote the opening post) and didn't....unless you have proof they have a nuke or the capacity to produce one?


anyways, you forget, Iran isnt a push over like Afghan and Iraq, these guys have trade deals with Russia and China, and unless you guys back off, this generation will sooner or later be facing ist own "Cuban missile crises" because you guys don't know when to quit!

you said "have no nuke, and no way of producing a nuke".
well, the UN seems to differ on this point.

you said "with the exception of them making it known that they want the west's destruction".
well, they made it known that they want Israel's destruction. why should Israel agree to that? should Israel be for Iran what Czechoslovakia was for Nazi germany?

and again, if Iran consistently and publicly called for the destruction of the UK (as it does with Israel), under the current situation you describe, you would expect the UK to "back off" or "quit" (and, pray tell, "back off" or "quit" what exactly?)?

oh please! you think the Iranian people are so dumb as to want to effectively commit suicide?

you're forgetting something:
IRAN ISN'T A DEMOCRACHY!!!!!
it is a beurocratic theocrachy. and as such, cares more about both the survival of the regime and its alleged "religious duties" than it does for the life of it's citizens.
Ahmedinjad had said: "dropping a nuclear bomb on Tel-Aviv will result in the death of 1 million Israelies and 50 million Iranians. AND IT WILL BE WORTH IT" ( quoting from memory).

and you still haven't answered my question.[/spoiler]

humans are still humans regardless of religion, and as you know, one of man's basic wants is to live. Ahmadinejad maybe suicidal, to the point he couldn't careless if his people burned but his people wont feel that way about him...i assure you.

so, let me get this straight, your nation wants to risk war with both Russia and China because of some dodgy dimwit in the UN "thinks" Iran has a nuke when they have no such capability or any way to produce such a delivery system, never mind any way to purify the radioactive material???


what question haven't i answered?

the problem here is that Israel is trying to force the hand of the US and have them go at it with Iran, they've wanted this since the mid 60's.

you're missing the point.
notice that this submarines are not an act of aggression.
they're there (so the article states) as a detterent and to gather intelligence.
now, in case of an immeadiete threat to Israel by Iran, yes, i'm willing to risk war with Russia and China (and honestly, do you really thing Iran is more important to those two than the western world? really??).
what moral grounds do i have for this? well, as demonstrated by the case of czechoslovakia. if a war is to break, sacrificing one nation will not stop it.
and Israel will not be the scape goat.

[[KMA]Avenger]

i haven't missed the point at all, but risking WW3, a war which will effectively wipe out our way of life all together for a threat that is non-existent is tantamount to madness in its most extreme form.
now, thats not to say we western powers should leave Iran to do what ever the hell they like, thats not what i'm saying at all, but Israel and the US are both saying they are seriously considering boarding Iranian ships without any solid evidence that those ships are engaged in the trafficking of nukes or nuke missile related parts...that's an act of war, something that Ahmedinjad will jump on and exploit to its fullest...all because of the UN and what they say? any fool with less than a full working brain cell will tell you thats going to create a MAJOR problem.


as i have said a few times already, the Chinese and the Russians have both stated they will launch an immediate retaliatory strike on anyone attacking Iran, and with that in mind you guys are STILL contemplating Nuking Iran in a pre-emptive/preventive strike...my question is this...have the US and Israeli leaderships completely lost their marbles or do they simply have a death wish for the entire world??

[Brdavs]

Its not the stuff on the boats thats the problem.

Studies show that the amount of birth defects in Fallujah is comparablate to that of Hiroshima after the bombing. God only knows what US dropped on them. Democracy riding on the tips of depleted uranium bombs. Awsome. Twas the same in the Balkans.

One day this unipolarity of the world will end and people will start talking about these crimes. Poor consolation to victims but hey, history will judge and judge harshly, even if ICC never will.

[Desert Ghost]

Don't be ridiculous, G. "The muslim world never had a problem with us".. really? It all just depends on how far back in history you're willing to go. And since you're willing to go back to the early 1900's, let's go back to the early 600's. When the muslim armies rolled into Europe, crushing culture and religion before them. We retaliated with the crusades, sure. Let's go to the late 1400's, when the muslim armies rolled into Europe AGAIN. We let them have part of Europe, fed and fostered the parasitic element now known as 'Turkey'. We retaliated much later, when we crushed the Ottoman Empire and created our Western foothold Israel. And now? What do we get for our leniency? We allow their horrendous religion to paralyse and defile Europe and the West out of some shameful cowardice, ashamed of our culture, ashamed of our history? Do you see the muslims repent? No.. they continue their advance. Your country has been broken and conquered in spirit already, by allowing sharia. When the political conquest is complete, you will finally wake up and see what has happened.

Obliterate them all. Wipe them from the face of the earth, until no man shall EVER bear the name of Allah on his lips. Let the Black Rock burn, and crucify the insurgence.


How is THAT for an 'exit strategy'. We're too **Filtered** weak in our resolve. Too damned scared to break a few eggs to get that omelet ready.

Well, i aint speaking for all israelis but:
the article that avanger got here is outdated and its not real....
i could prove the writer wrong, and there is no evidance of this subs are nuclear loaded or anyother crap.
those subs have neuclear capabilities, its not saying we have anything, or we did put anything on them, period.
secondly - avanger, come here and see for urself, we co exsist with alot of arab communaties in peace, those WHO DONT WANT US TO DIE, and even those who are, but were standing still.
we dont care to break a few egges to make that omlet, not in the price of the whole west belive me.
i cannot imagine u under a muslim regiun, u wount last for 10m, so cut the crap, its easy to say that, when u dont have kids [14yo] hiding a bomb and going to the nearest mall to blow up, u dont get to see how much hate, even taste it with ur own blood.

some good old links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WB_Z5l3JsI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0y-rm4qBio&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J11gnThMbeY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pKlJ28riXM&feature=related

and the list go on and on....
nust are censored, as u could google and see. no propoganda, we die here, we need to fight back with minimal casualties, and u could see how we get banged up for each ecilian who dies in militery op, not if we were another country, we could have hit even civils without the world communaty saying were doing genoside etc...

thats all politics to me, i see dead ppl , i fight back - period.

DG, Israeli, and Prowd at it.