Sex before Sacrament

[Thriller]

So I finished reading this terrible book the other day and I discovered something unexpected.

The bible says nothing about how sex before marriage is a sin. Nothing at all.
I thought that i might have overlooked a passage( it's rather boring and i might have dosed off) or maybe my version made an omission. After a little reading and more in depth study i still could not find the passage that forbid such an act. So i decided to do some digging and made an unexpected and astonishing discovery.


The bible only forbids the following concerning sexual practice.

i) You cannot sleep with other men's wives.

ii) Women must not cheat once married. (Married men in the Bible sleep with unmarried women, often servants, all the time without incurring God's anger).

iii) No homosexuality or bestiality.



Men are allowed to sow their wild oats. The very phrase 'sow wild oats' in refence to young men screwing around as long as they didn't touch other men's wives was coined by a protestant clergyman in 16th century England.

To quote Martin Luther, making a theological ruling on a polygamous noble of his time:-

"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter." (De Wette II, 459, ibid., pp. 329-330.)

The strictest form of monogamy practised by most mainstream Christian denominations partly has its origins in Roman secular law concerning marriage, and was always understood to be optional where people wealthy enough to support the children of more than one woman were concerned.

It was later adapted and reworked by Thomas Aquinas. Aquinas developed these ideas in an attempt to quell what he believed was a moral decay of his time period. His ideas would form canonical following providing greater moral authority for the church on sexual practices, now believed deviant, occurring in the mid-evil era.

It also partly has it's roots in a mystical belief that one's spiritual development is aided by practising daily asceticism, such as regular fasting, celibacy (as was the norm for priests and monks of the Roman church, but not the Eastern Orthodox), or restraining yourself from having sex more than is needed to continue your family line.


So there you have it...
Condoms are actually OK
So is fellatio
**Filtered** is fine.(as long as not done out of lust)

why would they take a such a vested interest in dictating our sex lives?

Are they trying to top from the bottom?

[Dubby_CompGamerGeek2]

very informative...

[ƒëmmë ƒatalë]

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 & 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

also look at
Mt: 15:19, Mk 7:21, Acts 15:20, 29, 21:25, 1 Cor 6:13, 18, Gal 5:19, Eph 5:3, Col 3:5, 1 Thes 4:3, Rev 2:14, 20-21, 9:21

[Thriller]

where does it forbid sex before marriage in that quote? i must be missing something.
Every Sin in the bible is written out quite clearly.

What version of the bible did you take that quote from btw.

18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

This is the proper translation, your doesn't make sense with the rest of that text..... Which is speaking upon going against the laws concerning sexual practice as outlines in Leviticus..... Which further ties into that part of Corinthians about your body being a part of god and how to honor him with it.

LOL someone thought they were holly enough to change the word of god.

[xXxsephirothxXx]

where does it forbid sex before marriage in that quote? i must be missing something.
Every Sin in the bible is written out quite clearly.

What version of the bible did you take that quote from btw.

18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

This is the proper translation, your doesn't make sense with the rest of that text..... Which is speaking upon going against the laws concerning sexual practice as outlines in Leviticus..... Which further ties into that part of Corinthians about your body being a part of god.

LOL someone thought they were holly enough to change the word of god.

Well Thriller... I do ocasionally feel up to the task of walking that line...
Religion has always been a means to control the masses... blind you would have to be to think the holy word has not been changed at least 1000+ times lol!

[Thriller]

If anything that quote she gave may only illustrates that you are only aloud one wife or husband but very vaguely, but does not directly give this as a commandment, like all the other rules are given. It's also speaks on the goodness of being chaste, but most importantly it does nothing to forbid consenting sex before marriage out of love.

edit:

Oh wait that last part is the start of Corinthians 1 -7

1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.[a] 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

The koine greek this is translated from used 'idios' for 'own' husband and 'heatou' for 'own' wife. Idios implies one may only had one of those things. Heatou is used when the thing may be one of many that belong. The original greek reaffirms polygamy as an option, rather than forbids it.

Not only that, but even if you read the English translation literally, without any knowledge of the koine Greek original, it still doesn't forbid anybody screwing around before marriage, or add extra rules to earlier commandments. It would only imply that men can only have one wife.

It doesn't automatically mean they can't have sex with other unmarried women, which is fortunate, because several old testament men of god do just that.

In bible-world men and women are not treated the same, and part of that is that the male sexual appetite is allowed a lot more variety than the female, just so long as he's careful not to get into conflict with other men over it.

Essentially, most modern Christians are living by a preacher's interpretation of a heavily translated document they don't really understand, and that preacher's interpretation is based on things completely outside the Bible.

It's funny how when you tack on the beginning of Corinthians 1-7 to the end of 1-6. You can try to make the bible look likes its suggesting sex before marriage is wrong but it still can't be done without interpretation. lol

[Mister Sandman]

I sense another QQ thread.

Condoms and other forums of contraception are actually OK
So is fellatio

I should think so.

ii) Women must not cheat once married. (Married men in the Bible sleep with unmarried women, often servants, all the time without incurring God's anger).

Back this up with evidence.

Essentially, most modern Christians are living by a preacher's interpretation of a heavily translated document they don't really understand, and that preacher's interpretation is based on things completely outside the Bible.

Correct.

It's funny how when you tack on the beginning of Corinthians 1-7 to the end of 1-6. You can try to make the bible look likes its suggesting sex before marriage is wrong but it still can't be done without interpretation.

It cant be read without interpretation, it is a natural function.

The fact is you cannot just look at the verse and state it means this.

You need to. 1. Look at the whole passage, even chapter, even book and then 2. Contextualise it. What is happening, whats being said, who is sayin it to whom ect...
3. Find the meaning. .
4. Question the meaning, why does he mean this, how does he mean this ect...

There are some clear cut verses however, some times people do not understand the complete meaning.

[Thriller]

My main point is that no where in the bible does it forbid sex before marriage.

Acording to the bible it is not a sin and in no way angers the lord.
Provided it is done out of love.

You can't show me one verse that says otherwise, it doesnt exist.

@ sandman

maybe interpretation is the wrong word. The quote dileberately took the start of the next parable and sliped it into the other to suggest something that isn't in the text when read in it's proper form.

i was being nice, misleading would have been better word but i can think of others.


Polygamy in the bible:

Abraham, Jacob, Esau, Ajamil.... all had lots of wives
Genesis 16:1-4
Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived.

Genesis 25;6
But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

ect, ect

[Thriller]

My main point is that no where in the bible does it forbid sex before marriage.

Acording to the bible it is not a sin and in no way angers the lord.
Provided it is done out of love.

You can't show me one verse that says otherwise, it doesnt exist.

if I cared enough, I could probably find at least one line that I can show that in my eyes means no sex prior to being wed. That is the thing about context, its something different to anyone that reads it.

A clock is a clock, but the word clock could mean many things to many people

Obviously you are unfamilliar with the book. All mortal sins are clearly outlined within the text.

Sure there are alot of stories which can be interpreted to find their moral. ex.jonah and the wale, Abraham and issaac, jesus and the poor fishermen.

but all sins are made perfectly clear. sex before marriage itsn't one of them. And no text can be brought forward that says otherwise

edit:
Also SS not everything is relative when examining meaning, A clock makes a poor hammer and vice-versa. When i say i want to hurt you and cause you pain. Only a fool would think that I meant I want to give you a hug nd shower you with affection.

[ƒëmmë ƒatalë]

Only a fool would think that I meant I want to give you a hug nd shower you with affection.

not til your married

"Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. "

I Thessalonians 4:1-8 NIV

Also, when the apostles were discussing what was required of the Gentiles (non-Jews) whwen they became believers, whether they were required to keep the Law or not, the consensus was thay did not have to keep the law of Moses, but needed to only conform to these few restrictions.........

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. "
Acts 15:28-29

wish I could find my bible study books

[J I X]

Only a fool would think that I meant I want to give you a hug nd shower you with affection.

not til your married

"Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. "

I Thessalonians 4:1-8 NIV

Also, when the apostles were discussing what was required of the Gentiles (non-Jews) whwen they became believers, whether they were required to keep the Law or not, the consensus was thay did not have to keep the law of Moses, but needed to only conform to these few restrictions.........

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. "
Acts 15:28-29

wish I could find my bible study books

i still dont see anything that says no sex before your married?

it just says avoid sexual immorality, which i take to mean no sex with another mans wife no sex with other men and no sex with animals

[Thriller]

edit:
Also SS not everything is relative when examining meaning, A clock makes a poor hammer and vice-versa. When i say i want to hurt you and cause you pain. Only a fool would think that I meant I want to give you a hug nd shower you with affection.

why pm it too?

now I have to be an ass and say it twice

it takes but one fool today to change the meaning for tomorrow

I wasn't sure you would come back to thread or not. Or even read much in this section

also...

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.

Oh and what Jix said.

[MEZZANINE]

lol did you only just realise that religions twist things and make stuff up to suit there own ends

Long time since I read any of the bible, we had to read some in high school and to be fair it was more entertaining the the shakespear rubbish they made us read, but which version of the bible I dont recall, their are several versions that have been edited, translated badly and re-edited to suit those in power, both religious and political at the time. And even if you found the original scrolls the bible itself it a collection of writings by people, not written by god, not written by Jesus, just people. Their are some good morality tales, some carrot & stick, reward and punishment stuff to entice and scare our less educated ancestors into behaving in a certain way, but essentially a compilation of short stories

[Thriller]

lol did you only just realise that religions twist things and make stuff up to suit there own ends

Long time since I read any of the bible, we had to read some in high school and to be fair it was more entertaining the the shakespear rubbish they made us read, but which version of the bible I dont recall, their are several versions that have been edited, translated badly and re-edited to suit those in power, both religious and political at the time. And even if you found the original scrolls the bible itself it a collection of writings by people, not written by god, not written by Jesus, just people. Their are some good morality tales, some carrot & stick, reward and punishment stuff to entice and scare our less educated ancestors into behaving in a certain way, but essentially a compilation of short stories

If things go as planed, the threads theme will reveal itself.

[jedi~tank]

You cannot use any text as law before the law was given meaning there was no law of such in Abraham's time as the generations prior to the Exodus was leading up to the law. Also remember this. The Old testament is the new testament concealed, and the new testament is the old testament revealed. In order to find the laws and such for thier exact interpretation or meaning refer and interpret from the original language in which the text was written, also do not look for a single passage for an interpretation, rather read it as a whole for proper context. Both the Hebrew language and the Greek in which the old and new where written are the 2 most exact languages in the history of languages.