Ascended Updates/Suggestions: General Discussion

[Lithium]

i know dude i know but why do they jsut log to prevent being descended?

trying to make that game a fun place after at least 4 years or broken mechanism is means two things, u make it a clone or u make a new one.
the real issue is the activity . the question is How to bring old players to play it again , Ayeeee cuz no new blood in the block.

[Tekki]

I think Military experience is a bad bad idea to be honest. Look at all the random massing that happened in main when that was brought it? And imagine what will happen in ascension. I don't think the games matured past the point where people won't do it. So we start off with the update and have wave of random massing on poor innocent accounts, who's only shame was they weren't quite set up right. That would encourage play.

Also getting 15 ATs per turn means that it's dictating a style of play - that of snipering and farming. In main at least you can have multiple types of play. You can be a farmer, or you can be defensive and rely on your own income. In ascension, there are those with big defences who do rely on their incomes. that's their choice. Bringing in both Military experience and more ATs would make it very very very much not their choice.

If you are going to raise or alter ATs, which do actually penalise stats, then do it in reverse, reward having stats as Angelis and Borek have suggested.

There are two levels of problems here. There are the physical realm problems and the fact that stats and most growth there is penalised (hell I HAVE DM'd people on their request to get them back to 2billion planets because it's better for them.) Then there is the secondary layer of problems that is the descension problem. The physical problems are there beacuse of the complete penalisation of having stats or good CERs and the descension problems are there because of the incremental way the game is designed.

[Lithium]

and now u realised that snipe mode is the only game of the actives there?

[Tekki]

and now u realised that snipe mode is the only game of the actives there?

Oh I know that sniper mod is one of the few modes that make sense these days. Which is part of the issue itself. There are those Lithium who aren't wanting to be that active who build huge defences, not necessarily with enough assassins and they bank every now and then. They may like to play but they either don't understand the game or don't want to be a sniper - hence the call for the adoption of the reversal of the AT bonus. GIVE more ATs to those who have stats and maybe to an account that's up to 6months old.

That would then enourage people to build their stats if they want to keep farming and to keep those stats over the turn change because they would not get 9, or 11 or 13 ATs each turn for having 0 stats, they'd get 9 or 11 or 13 ATs for having and keeping farming stats.

[Lithium]

then we face an issue that these players who stat on rank 4k making 2k ats for 3 days and then farming and building physicals to 1500+ like i did here and 2 years ago , impressive toc etc will mostly benefit cuz their setup is complete.
yet another time that update will boost whos already to the top

[Tekki]

then we face an issue that these players who stat on rank 4k making 2k ats for 3 days and then farming and building physicals to 1500+ like i did here and 2 years ago , impressive toc etc will mostly benefit cuz their setup is complete.
yet another time that update will boost whos already to the top

What it would mean is that to recover your turns faster you'd need stats, stats that someone can destroy if you farmed them, as opposed to now, where everything is untrained in the half hour.

But feel free to suggest something that in your opinion doesn't already boost those at the top Lithium. Indeed, I've been trying to encourage people to.

Extra considerations or possible alterations

1. Something like PPT may be a necessary thing to add to Ascension just so people can have a real break.
2. Alteration of the regeneration rates or repulsion rates.
3. Limit the number of people who can ‘gang up’ – aka only 2 or 3 can do gang up on the one target thus 20 noobs can’t descend the top person. You do have to have SOME stats to take on someone with some stats.
4. Limit the time they have to hit in – for example they all have to hit in the same 5 mins.
5. Extend out the amount of time between hits – aka make ti take 4 hits to descend someone but have those hits 3 hours apart.

1. I don't believe there should be a PPT in ascended, if you plan to be away for the game for an extended period of time...hit vacation mode.....You already pointed out descending takes a LOT of time, then want to advocate, being being able to jump PPT mid descension - This would drive most of the current active players away from ascended altogether.

Also, after saying it's "impossible" to catch up, you want most of your farms jumping on PPT? watch how much slower catching up is then.

Perhaps you hadn’t noticed the title on the top that said ‘extra or possible alterations’ which is different from ‘things that I believe should be changed’.

However since logging in and recharging your life force prevents you from being descended there is no real difference between a PPT or a log in and recharge. Both require a log in. One just gives a longer protection against descension hits. I would only be advocating 1 PPT a week though.

One PPT would not make that much difference but would give people a break. And with a PPT there is always the chance of missing the PPT.

3. Completely disagree with the whole "ganging" up idea - if by this you mean what you previously proposed about a number of people being able to carry out ascended hits on the same target at the same time. I understand you want every account to be descendable, but it should be as easy to descend top accounts as it is the bottom.

And that’s what ganging up will do! Unless you are telling me that at the moment you think the top accounts are as easily descendable as the bottom accounts, because we know that’s not the case. Ganging up works both ways. It allows big accounts to gang up on big accounts but allows little accounts to gang up against a big account. The defence against being descend though remains the same for all accounts – log in and recharge.

[5. Quite simply...NO. Moving the minimum time for descension to 12 hours is terrible. It means then that every descension pretty much becomes a team effort, and nothing can be done alone. You have to remember 12 hours would mean, the person could not miss a single minute to hit that minimum deadline. 8 hours is fine, allowing for people to slip a little due to having RL stuff to do, it would probably average it out at around 10.

So … currently you are descending EVERYONE in 7.5 hours. Congratulations Renegadze you obviously have one of the insane TOCs. It usually takes me between 5-6 hits, if the person has moderately worked on their account, that’s about 12.5 hours. If they have worked on their account a lot then it might take 24 hours, something which I’m loath to do simply because of the commitment. But given that I will bet that most people are already taking 12 or more hours to descend anyone who’s worked a bit on their accounts – I don’t think it’s unreasonable. So I do congratulate you for currently being able to descend everyone in 7.5 hours Renegadze but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone else and 12 hours is in my opinion a reasonable contribution of time to the descension but also allows the target sufficient time away from the game to sleep and work. Or are you saying that it should be quicker and that people shouldn’t have a healthly sleeping time?

You want to make ascended server "fun" to play, which is admirable....but lets look at the core playing options before we even start to worry about descending people.

I think there are two levels of problem – one the physical stats, and two the descended capabilities.

[Borek]

I had a good chat with ifrit via PM about some of the issues particularly around descension.

One of the issues at the moment is that you can have all your efforts towards descending someone canceled out with them merely logging in once to refill their reserves. End result is with a decent set of personal levels a player can pretty much log in once a day and be safe from descension, ultimately making the server meaningless to them.

The way we think it can be improved is you cap the amount of LF you can refill per turn based upon the Energy Channeling Level. This means you cannot refill with 1 click, you can certainly offset some of the damage and keep yourself up longer, but you need multiple turns to get back to maximum.

[Lithium]

then we face an issue that these players who stat on rank 4k making 2k ats for 3 days and then farming and building physicals to 1500+ like i did here and 2 years ago , impressive toc etc will mostly benefit cuz their setup is complete.
yet another time that update will boost whos already to the top

What it would mean is that to recover your turns faster you'd need stats, stats that someone can destroy if you farmed them, as opposed to now, where everything is untrained in the half hour.

But feel free to suggest something that in your opinion doesn't already boost those at the top Lithium. Indeed, I've been trying to encourage people to.

in the opinion of a player whos playing that server for 4 years with only 2 little breaks theres nothing that can fix that server , the activity that it is facing these days is because players were threatened. what ever chnges ppl will ask they ll be strongly debated because that serve runs to fast for the activity it has.

now ill present a radical idea that may bring more activity just cuz i read many tiems its not a fun server.

Remove the info that shows the whos the main owner from the God Guest Report and remix all ID's.
clearly one can mass back , farm heavy and be the one he wants and not having his main account smashed and sat one from 1 player or alliances. it brings individuality to the being hes en powering. the player isnt anymore threatened for his being actions.
it ll make players preserve their new id's so they dont become future organized targets , lol its fun none knows who u are anymore

the down side is the team work will face difficulties btu hell its not fun when 5-6 players picks on one and keep hitting till they descend it , bulling mostly.


the ascended server is ment to be a race of beings to the top, not teaming and other bs


forgot to add smth: If u agree that ascended is a fast server and that is one of the big issues not fixed then dotn ask to hasten its processes further more.
but if u do then think about critical who bores to death massers , how long it takes between tw HA hits?

[Iƒrit]

I had a good chat with ifrit via PM about some of the issues particularly around descension.

One of the issues at the moment is that you can have all your efforts towards descending someone canceled out with them merely logging in once to refill their reserves. End result is with a decent set of personal levels a player can pretty much log in once a day and be safe from descension, ultimately making the server meaningless to them.

The way we think it can be improved is you cap the amount of LF you can refill per turn based upon the Energy Channeling Level. This means you cannot refill with 1 click, you can certainly offset some of the damage and keep yourself up longer, but you need multiple turns to get back to maximum.

yep, was a great chat.
Also I think it might help with people building stats to help prevent decensions. needing x20 strike of your opponents defense is a required aspect of a personal attack. Building a defense and something to protect it will prolong the process and cause your enemy to spend more turns. And having recently dealt with someone who did this twice while me and an alliance mate tried to descend him i gotta say it was a lot of ATs to get him, was well played on his part

[stuff of legends]

So, apart from all the suggestions popping up everywhere.
Has anyone asked admin if he would change the server when we all come to an agreement on something? As far as i know we have had suggestions for improvements like these for along long time now. I would have assumed most have been brought up to admin. And as far as i recall as well he only likes to implement simple easy fixes. So is there actually any point in bickering about this
Also hooray the conversation has finally reached the point where the problem is many things-not just descension and its surrounds- on ascended server. + it would be an easy assumption to say people dont like to play ascended for that reason, easy sniper, easy destruction of trained planets, buggy as all hell, mistakes everywhere.

[Robe]

My 3 ideas to encourage players to work on their accounts are:

1. Raise the old cap of 2b planets for CER to 3b to increase Production - more DMU to farm.
2. Increase the number of turns generated for every player to 15 per turn - more turns to farm.
3. Implement Military Experience so players can measure their performance - make it real.

Feel free to post your thoughts because I wont be offended if you think they suck.

SUCK!!!!!!!! lol jk
The 3 ideas with Renegadez's Untrained producing income are fantastic suggestions, Military Experience was suggested about 2 years ago.

Biggest change that MUST happen is the stat modifiers based on stat ranks, it is absolutely stupid that people with zero stats to protect their accounts can often only have 60-80% of their DMU farmed because of these dumb modifiers. all values should be fixed, if you spy someone what you see should be what you have to deal with, no b/s mods based on whether or not you untrain/sell up before a turn change.

I agree with Iƒrit about Renegadze's idea that untrained planets should produce income.

I also agree with Borek's idea to get rid of the modifiers but only if AT are equally distributed so everyone gets a fair go!

I was killing two birds with one stone when I suggested equalising the amount of turns provided to all players because this would reduce the incentive to "drop ranks" in order to receive enough to farm. This would discourage sniper play.

Turns are already scarce and players will bitterly complain if they are restricted more.

A consistent theme expressed so far is that players are saying there is not enough DMU to farm.

To address this common complaint everyone needs at least 15 AT per turn to play or you run out very quickly.

Lifting the old 2b CER cap to just 3b for everyone is a small step in the right direction because it increases the overall amount of DMU that becomes available in the server to farm.

This idea doesn't necessarily favour long established players.
Remember its a doubled edged sword because the more DMU you produce, the more attractive you become as a farm.

So in summary everyone wants a fair go (old and new alike). The most common current complaints are that there is not enough to turns or DMU to farm since the server became more active.

This can be easily fixed with the following suggestions:

Renegadzes - untrained planets should produce to income
Borek - get rid of modifiers (but only if AT are equally distributed) to discourage sniper play
Robe - equalise turn distribution to provide enough turns for everyone to play
Increase CER Cap from 2b to 3b to increase DMU production across the server

I am sure there will more good suggestions as the debate continues and will start a poll on Military Experience because some players like it whilst others have reservations.

This server needs a Fair Go for everyone (new and old alike).

Effort should be rewarded not punished.

[~Thamuz~]

From what i can gather and read from the last few pgs is that EVERYONE wants to see changes,
What i don't want to see happen is for all my hrs, and hrs and hrs of hard work up there be for nothing, why would i? I've put the time into my account why should i not be rewarded for it?

It seems to me that players who haven't put the time in or are unwilling to put the time in to "Catch up" which from a number of players have said it is possible if you put the time in, want it so that they can take the easy route and take away from the players that have put the effort in and give more power to the players that haven't put the effort in, in effect they want to have there cake and eat it by not doing any work up there but getting the same power as someone who has put alot of effort in. Sounds wrong to me on all levels.

The Fact is its by far easier to catch up on ascended than it is for anyone to catch up in main with the top accounts, would it be fair to implement changes in main so that players who have only put a small amount of effort into there accounts for 6 months to a year there to be as powerful as the ones who have put 5 years +? ~T~

[renegadze]

[spoiler]

Extra considerations or possible alterations

1. Something like PPT may be a necessary thing to add to Ascension just so people can have a real break.
2. Alteration of the regeneration rates or repulsion rates.
3. Limit the number of people who can ‘gang up’ – aka only 2 or 3 can do gang up on the one target thus 20 noobs can’t descend the top person. You do have to have SOME stats to take on someone with some stats.
4. Limit the time they have to hit in – for example they all have to hit in the same 5 mins.
5. Extend out the amount of time between hits – aka make ti take 4 hits to descend someone but have those hits 3 hours apart.

1. I don't believe there should be a PPT in ascended, if you plan to be away for the game for an extended period of time...hit vacation mode.....You already pointed out descending takes a LOT of time, then want to advocate, being being able to jump PPT mid descension - This would drive most of the current active players away from ascended altogether.

Also, after saying it's "impossible" to catch up, you want most of your farms jumping on PPT? watch how much slower catching up is then.

Perhaps you hadn’t noticed the title on the top that said ‘extra or possible alterations’ which is different from ‘things that I believe should be changed’.

However since logging in and recharging your life force prevents you from being descended there is no real difference between a PPT or a log in and recharge. Both require a log in. One just gives a longer protection against descension hits. I would only be advocating 1 PPT a week though.

One PPT would not make that much difference but would give people a break. And with a PPT there is always the chance of missing the PPT.

3. Completely disagree with the whole "ganging" up idea - if by this you mean what you previously proposed about a number of people being able to carry out ascended hits on the same target at the same time. I understand you want every account to be descendable, but it should be as easy to descend top accounts as it is the bottom.

And that’s what ganging up will do! Unless you are telling me that at the moment you think the top accounts are as easily descendable as the bottom accounts, because we know that’s not the case. Ganging up works both ways. It allows big accounts to gang up on big accounts but allows little accounts to gang up against a big account. The defence against being descend though remains the same for all accounts – log in and recharge.

[5. Quite simply...NO. Moving the minimum time for descension to 12 hours is terrible. It means then that every descension pretty much becomes a team effort, and nothing can be done alone. You have to remember 12 hours would mean, the person could not miss a single minute to hit that minimum deadline. 8 hours is fine, allowing for people to slip a little due to having RL stuff to do, it would probably average it out at around 10.

So … currently you are descending EVERYONE in 7.5 hours. Congratulations Renegadze you obviously have one of the insane TOCs. It usually takes me between 5-6 hits, if the person has moderately worked on their account, that’s about 12.5 hours. If they have worked on their account a lot then it might take 24 hours, something which I’m loath to do simply because of the commitment. But given that I will bet that most people are already taking 12 or more hours to descend anyone who’s worked a bit on their accounts – I don’t think it’s unreasonable. So I do congratulate you for currently being able to descend everyone in 7.5 hours Renegadze but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone else and 12 hours is in my opinion a reasonable contribution of time to the descension but also allows the target sufficient time away from the game to sleep and work. Or are you saying that it should be quicker and that people shouldn’t have a healthly sleeping time?

You want to make ascended server "fun" to play, which is admirable....but lets look at the core playing options before we even start to worry about descending people.

I think there are two levels of problem – one the physical stats, and two the descended capabilities.

[/spoiler]

Spolier shows qutoed thread and it's context

One PPT would not make that much difference but would give people a break. And with a PPT there is always the chance of missing the PPT.

One PPT would make a big difference, and what does a missed PPT mean? nothing because no one uses their own income on ascended, so those undeveloped planets won't produce you too much.

And that’s what ganging up will do! Unless you are telling me that at the moment you think the top accounts are as easily descendable as the bottom accounts, because we know that’s not the case. Ganging up works both ways. It allows big accounts to gang up on big accounts but allows little accounts to gang up against a big account. The defence against being descend though remains the same for all accounts – log in and recharge.

Apologies seems I had a typo in my last post, what it should have said is it Shouldn't be as easy to descend the top accounts. I by no means have a "top" account, but at the same time, if a group of people (much lower then me) can simaltaneously take me down, I'll never bother with another increase in my stats again...because it's simply not worth it. As much as I could increase my def levels and MNEC, the group only have to carry out the same increase between them to carry on hitting me. I've not spent the best part of a year fixing my account up, for you to completely undo all that work in a single move.

So … currently you are descending EVERYONE in 7.5 hours. Congratulations Renegadze you obviously have one of the insane TOCs. It usually takes me between 5-6 hits, if the person has moderately worked on their account, that’s about 12.5 hours. If they have worked on their account a lot then it might take 24 hours, something which I’m loath to do simply because of the commitment. But given that I will bet that most people are already taking 12 or more hours to descend anyone who’s worked a bit on their accounts – I don’t think it’s unreasonable. So I do congratulate you for currently being able to descend everyone in 7.5 hours Renegadze but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone else and 12 hours is in my opinion a reasonable contribution of time to the descension but also allows the target sufficient time away from the game to sleep and work. Or are you saying that it should be quicker and that people shouldn’t have a healthly sleeping time?

No I can't descend everyone in 7.5 hours...and where did I say that? I said 12 hours was too long as a minimum for everyone. Every update you've suggested helps an alliance\empire work together...how about we start assuming some people actually play the server on their own. A 12 hour minimum for every single target, and you may as well take the "assault directly" button away from them.

Anyway as stated previously, all this talk of descension is way ahead of where anyone should be thinking right now.....descension didn't stop people playing ascended....if you want to get people back active....I'd say this comes last in a long line of "tweaks"needed.

[DeMiSe]

so by rights what u want tekki is that anyone can deascend anyone (because they have help) so people who actuly put in the effort for there accounts can get hammerd by the people that dont put the effort in there accounts. it would be good to get more ATs

[Brdavs]

So if we take it that a reasonable amount of time to descend someone is 12 hours and that the average player doesn’t have a hope of descending anyone with greater abilities than them while they are vulnerable themselves and even if they farmed for a good while, they still probably won’t have a hope, where is the enjoyment or challenge? It’s NOT a challenge if you can’t reach the goal, it’s a pointless exercise and we’ve already had people come and say this while others have all been ‘it’s easy to catch up’ Well it’s easy to get an average account but even in that, you can’t hurt the one who can hurt you. In main this is not the case. If you have an average account you CAN do damage to the person with lv 38 covert simply because you can mass them. Unless that individual becomes a sniper then the average account can damage it. The 5 t MS can be massed by one that has 500b strike, etc. This is just not possible in ascension.

Now if I can’t descend someone by myself, I’d go ask for help, but chances are against the bigger accounts I can’t find anyone willing to take the risk or who has comparable stats. There is therefore no real incentive for anyone in ascension to even try but that’s just defeatist. (The update has helped here though.) I would propose therefore that descension hits be stackable – within a certain time frame and within allowable damage ratios. Therefore when the person with average TOC of 1billion takes on the person with 4billion reserves, they also go and recruit their friends to say there are 2-3 people with the average TOC of 1billion. I would propose that the maximum allowable damage NOT BE changed, but that multiple people can hit the target – within a time frame.

So the first person comes along and does a hit, then within 5 mins and BEFORE the turn, the second person does a hit and the third person. This then ups the damage done to the target to the maximum amount. EVERY hit needs to be within 5 mins of the first hit and BEFORE a turn. And no more than 1/3 (or the 2/5) of the LF should be destroyable. This then reduces the number of hits to 4 to descend this person (and actually if there is no repulsion in consideration you only need 2 people to do it.) So if the hits were then spaced out to be a 12 hour total on the descenion time that makes all accounts equal, though still gives advantage to those who worked on their accounts.

At NO point can you or the combined group do MORE than max damage. So that even if 50 people hit you, only the 1/3 (2/5 LF can be destroyed) and you can't hit again after the turn. The timing of descension hit would still remain the 2.5 hours it does now (plus or minus the 5 mins that the rest of the gang can hit in). So the minimum time to descend someone remains unchanged. All it means though is that everyone can be descended. I WOULD though be advocating an extension to the minimum time to descend someone to increase it to 12 hours or something similar.

I got an even better idea, how about empires get an incorporation up there and admin puts in the "zerg to death" button for the leaders?

Cos thats basically what this is. Make the descensions not the domain of people who built up their accounts for a year (and that is in no way me lol - and they`re not exactly numerous) to the people who can muster the most bodies. hmmmm.... *wink*



Personally I`d support radical physical realm...

The descensions talk is just agenda pushing from both sides. I`d support a middle ground. Put in a reasonable limitation so people arent dumped the first 6h stint they`re afk (12h minimum floating around sounds reasonable) but dont go into absurdities like the above suggestion at the same time lol.