The State of the Community: An opinion by Psi

[Cole]

If anyone has the time to create a new alternative SGW forum I for one would go there, although human nature being what it is Im sure that would go the same way and need replacing after a couple of years too lol

By experience from another game similar to SGW, this has been tried as some members of related forum didn't like admins/mods style, the success was moderate and this alternate forum became inactive within short amount of time.



I will add also that often people who call bias, used at some moment in past to be 'advantaged' as the bias was in their favor (ie: most of influential mods/staff being in their "side"), but during this, strangely enough they didn't scream bias when it was in their favor.

[Mordack]

If anyone has the time to create a new alternative SGW forum I for one would go there, although human nature being what it is Im sure that would go the same way and need replacing after a couple of years too lol

By experience from another game similar to SGW, this has been tried as some members of related forum didn't like admins/mods style, the success was moderate and this alternate forum became inactive within short amount of time.

Actually that's happened here, too. Geisha, Replijake, myself and a few others attempted to create an alternate community which was distinct from the 'official' forums. It was successful for a while, but petered out eventually. I suspect the same would be true if it were attempted now. Doubly so, in fact, when we consider that the playerbase is now smaller.

[MEZZANINE]

If anyone has the time to create a new alternative SGW forum I for one would go there, although human nature being what it is Im sure that would go the same way and need replacing after a couple of years too lol

By experience from another game similar to SGW, this has been tried as some members of related forum didn't like admins/mods style, the success was moderate and this alternate forum became inactive within short amount of time.



I will add also that often people who call bias, used at some moment in past to be 'advantaged' as the bias was in their favor (ie: most of influential mods/staff being in their "side"), but during this, strangely enough they didn't scream bias when it was in their favor.

True, as I said sadly tis human nature, people dont want equality, they want to be the ones on top, and bias will always exist even with the best of intentions lol

Personally I have never had influence in this forum and I havent had any problems with mods for quite some time ( you'd know if I did as Im quite vocal lol ). But you would have to be blind not to see the bias sometimes, and the current selection process for new Admins/Mods means nothing will change. I gave up applying for mod positions long ago and I think many others have too.

[Psi Kiya Trist]

I disagree with the assertion the 'negative' behaviour has destroyed the forums. Negative behaviour, or what you have chosen to categorize as negative behaviour, is fun. Sometimes the best part of massing someone was coming onto the forums afterwards to gloat about it. The high politics of the various alliances, their propaganda machines and their constant attempts to outmanoeuvre one another; that was interesting. The banter, some of it witty and some of it less so, was entertaining. For me, that's when the community was at its most vibrant. SGW is a war game. A game of destruction, strategy and cunning. For us to expect the associated forum to be a latter day Woodstoke stretches believability, and for a long time the forum was hugely active and diverse whilst simultaneously functioning as a 'hot bed of aggression.'

The game and the forum, as we know, have a symbiotic relationship. In many cases, a loss of interest in the game is followed by a loss of interest in the forums. The decline of the forums simply mirrors the decline of the game. There is no deep overriding philosophical explanation. I reactivated my in-game account a few days ago, and now I'm wondering why I bothered. Most of my friends are gone now, and my former alliances have moved on without me. I suspect there are quite a few people in the same boat. People move on. Games are a dime a dozen these days, and each new one is shinier than the last. Browser based MMORPGs are in almost unanimous decline. It's sad, but it's true.

And honestly, some of the responses to this thread are just ridiculous. We should all take a step back and look at ourselves? This is a game, not group therapy. "Hi, my name's Mordack and I was once a heavy sarcasm user in the Galactic Colosseum."

The problem therein, is that those are People on the other side of the screen. It's easy to depersonalize it, but there have been instances were people have been hurt personally by what has happened on these forums. I myself was one of those hurt by it. If the forums are "all part of the game" then it changes. But I for one, do not believe the entire forum should be "part of the game". Related to the game perhaps, but people do seek personal interaction from these forums. If all they find is "HA, I'm warring you because I can!" then things will stagnate. If you walk around with a scowl and talking angrily at people all day, people will avoid you. Same can be said of the forums. Sure, it might be fun for those on the giving side, who are prepared to fight the psychological battles but not everyone is interested in that. My favorite part of the game is not in the wars, I love sending people stuff. Not because they ask for it, not because they need it. But because I can, and it makes them happy. I have not seen anyone play the game the same way I do, and that's because they can't. They're forced into the standard cliche "you must war or be massed" situation. The last time I was massed, the reason given was exactly this: "you were just an innocent bystander/casualty of war." The person acknowledged that I was not involved in the situation. They attacked me anyway. They then demanded "their rules" in a war that I never wanted to fight. I was told to "surrender or be sat on." for being an "innocent bystander". Hardly fair, is it? If you want new people to join, you must be welcoming. This forum is not.

[renegadze]

yeah of course I stated that, see my point exactly you can't even post without lying, please link me to where I said that

... your decision. For there to be due process and natural justice, you actually need to involve the staff member as part of the performance review. Stalin would be proud!

You asked for it, so I shall post it. I never stated you posted it either? I just posted that it was stated.

I'm not going to argue with you. I made my post. Take it or leave it.

I even started a topic based upon it, had you only waited a few days but instead you decided to viciously attack the entire moderator team and state 'Stalin would be proud' as well as cry for blood; I doubt anyone would take that lightly.
Or perhaps I can have both..

That has to go down as epic fail, it was only your post before too lol

[Noobert]

You is a generalization to the entire community who was outraged. I didn't even quote what you said in my first post. You wonder why people don't bother with giving answers when you take it upon yourself to continue to troll.

Good day, sir.

[TLPhoenix]

Psi is 100% right.

The problem is and always has been ego. If nobody had one then there would be no problems. Im not surprised that people got fed up with it eventually... in certain circumstances you literally could not express what you thought because you'd endanger your alliance mates to a larger clan.

That said, I dont think this problem will ever be solveable. Attacking the mods for modding is a different matter. Kicking you out of an alliance because you modded them just sounds petty :/

Only thing I can suggest is have one mod account called "mod" which you can all log into. Then you can't be distinguished.

[Mordack]

Psi is 100% right.

The problem is and always has been ego. If nobody had one then there would be no problems. Im not surprised that people got fed up with it eventually... in certain circumstances you literally could not express what you thought because you'd endanger your alliance mates to a larger clan.

That said, I dont think this problem will ever be solveable. Attacking the mods for modding is a different matter. Kicking you out of an alliance because you modded them just sounds petty :/

Only thing I can suggest is have one mod account called "mod" which you can all log into. Then you can't be distinguished.

Haha, that was tried as well. Ended badly.

[geisha]

I disagree with the assertion the 'negative' behaviour has destroyed the forums. Negative behaviour, or what you have chosen to categorize as negative behaviour, is fun. Sometimes the best part of massing someone was coming onto the forums afterwards to gloat about it. The high politics of the various alliances, their propaganda machines and their constant attempts to outmanoeuvre one another; that was interesting. The banter, some of it witty and some of it less so, was entertaining. For me, that's when the community was at its most vibrant. SGW is a war game. A game of destruction, strategy and cunning. For us to expect the associated forum to be a latter day Woodstoke stretches believability, and for a long time the forum was hugely active and diverse whilst simultaneously functioning as a 'hot bed of aggression.'

The game and the forum, as we know, have a symbiotic relationship. In many cases, a loss of interest in the game is followed by a loss of interest in the forums. The decline of the forums simply mirrors the decline of the game. There is no deep overriding philosophical explanation. I reactivated my in-game account a few days ago, and now I'm wondering why I bothered. Most of my friends are gone now, and my former alliances have moved on without me. I suspect there are quite a few people in the same boat. People move on. Games are a dime a dozen these days, and each new one is shinier than the last. Browser based MMORPGs are in almost unanimous decline. It's sad, but it's true.

And honestly, some of the responses to this thread are just ridiculous. We should all take a step back and look at ourselves? This is a game, not group therapy. "Hi, my name's Mordack and I was once a heavy sarcasm user in the Galactic Colosseum."

I agree 100% Mordack <3 <3 <3

I miss the good old times and the fun we all had on the forums. Sadly at some point most of the fun was forbidden by the forum mods. I think that was when I lost interest in the forums and when many others left too. Nowadays there are 100 subforums, roleplaying forums and a whole bunch of silly rules about what you are allowed to post and where you are allowed to post and blah blah. The old Galactic Colosseum and the old General forum was all that's needed.

[Cole]

If anyone has the time to create a new alternative SGW forum I for one would go there, although human nature being what it is Im sure that would go the same way and need replacing after a couple of years too lol

By experience from another game similar to SGW, this has been tried as some members of related forum didn't like admins/mods style, the success was moderate and this alternate forum became inactive within short amount of time.



I will add also that often people who call bias, used at some moment in past to be 'advantaged' as the bias was in their favor (ie: most of influential mods/staff being in their "side"), but during this, strangely enough they didn't scream bias when it was in their favor.

True, as I said sadly tis human nature, people dont want equality, they want to be the ones on top, and bias will always exist even with the best of intentions lol

Personally I have never had influence in this forum and I havent had any problems with mods for quite some time ( you'd know if I did as Im quite vocal lol ). But you would have to be blind not to see the bias sometimes, and the current selection process for new Admins/Mods means nothing will change. I gave up applying for mod positions long ago and I think many others have too.

I meant that bias existed more or less in these forums for a long time, since its beginning. Moreover, many times what people call bias is bias itself: they think they are warned/edited/... because of what tag/empire/group they represent, while it's often -not always- due to not following rules, and thus cannot be expected for them to have special positive treatment from mods because they are this or that group ("be more lenient to avoid them calling mods biased against them") because then...it would be positive bias in their favor. Positive or negative bias remain bias, same as "positive" ("affirmative action" if you prefer) or "negative" discrimination are both discriminations and the idea of positive/negative is entirely subjective: positive for one is negative for another.

Also, I think one of reasons some people don't want to apply to moderatorship isn't necessarily because they feel mods are biased/corrupt, well some might think so, many aren't bothered/lack time to be mod, but there are also some who feel considering the whole "mods are corrupt they hate us let's band against them" and all the whining/flaming that revolves around that, it's not worth it to be a mod as it's already sufficient amount of this these 'potential appliers" see as simple users browsing forums, and they might not want to have some extra of those hostile behavior due to becoming moderator and thus becoming a "target" of such hostile behavior just because they became a mod, and thus "part of the elite against the masses blah blah nonsense".

Edit: @ Phoenix: this has been tried but this didn't end well.

[Flavar]

Yeah its not that welcoming, i see no sense in attacking each other just because its a wargame.
As part of the collusseum its great - but dont let it get to personal.
And i really see no harm in being polite.

To the fact that nobody plays like you Psy, i have to say. That there are others, or were others that thought like you. Even if not in that extreme. And most likely on a much smaller scale. And i would not call my stile even playing.

I to like helping out, but unless its an friend its allways in small sums like a trill or 1k turns, that really doesnot effekt me. And its rather random, some posts of newbies i like or some people i didnot even really know return and i read about it.


And to search reasons for getting massed, i have given that part up years ago, but yes it felt way better if you were massed for a reason. (not that even years ago you allways got one)But the generel way is to mass without a reason. (other than being bored/in a war).

[x_N1GHTW1NG_x]

i mean iv seen new people join the game, they post on the forum 1ce or twice, thats it. if it because they see all the harsh comments from everyone, probably me included, and think maybe this is a community i shouldnt get involved in?
my new officer and mate in rl isnt skeptical about things but he wont join the forums after lookin at it with me, he fears he'll say one thing wrong and someone bigger than him to take it the wrong way then hes accounts 0'ed.

thats when i see new people joining the forum i try to be polite and tell them anything they need to send me a message, only way forward with the minimum amount of players ingame and also on the main forum.

[RepliMagni]

They attacked me anyway. They then demanded "their rules" in a war that I never wanted to fight. I was told to "surrender or be sat on." for being an "innocent bystander". Hardly fair, is it? If you want new people to join, you must be welcoming. This forum is not.

I got sabbed in April 05 for the first post I ever made - it was a pro-repli post, a goa'uld sabbed me. Then Jaxin and RepliJake sabbed him, and everything kicked off. It actually got me interested in the game and the forum - without it, I would probably have quit within a few weeks.

The forum was at its height with the pookie/jaxin and Esker debates, with neb impersonating etl, with ero'sore's images, etc - when characters were larger than life. This isn't some rose-tinted nostalgia, I fully realise there were problems with it, but now the forum is a limp thing compared to what it used to be.

Are the admins/mods responsible? I don't really think so: but the increasingly held modship/adminship by people who only marginally play the game, or have even quit, has led to the forum becoming separated from the game.

The forum needs controversy to thrive on. Get too little and people lose interest and just go spam. Get too much and people take things too personally. Get the right balance and we'll have a fun active forum again

[Cole]

i mean iv seen new people join the game, they post on the forum 1ce or twice, thats it. if it because they see all the harsh comments from everyone, probably me included, and think maybe this is a community i shouldnt get involved in?
my new officer and mate in rl isnt skeptical about things but he wont join the forums after lookin at it with me, he fears he'll say one thing wrong and someone bigger than him to take it the wrong way then hes accounts 0'ed.

thats when i see new people joining the forum i try to be polite and tell them anything they need to send me a message, only way forward with the minimum amount of players ingame and also on the main forum.

Psi mentioned this in his post, the only difference back then was that the Stargate theme of the game along with ongoing SG1/SGA series on TV made the players more persistent in staying in spite of the "post something I don't like, I will sit on you and your alliance", often they just avoided posting too much on the ingame politically related threads, as this path of browsing forums but not posting much must be as old as the ascension/mother ships, which means, quite old. But the difference is, before I think early 2008, sure there was the "I mass you for your post I don't like" but forums were still quite entertaining to read, then after this deadline, the trolling/flaming took over, and then it wasn't as fun to read.
It's also a factor of feeling of identity loss this community has. Sure SG related roleplay led to SL v Ancients wars among other ingame events, but at least people felt this game had an identity. But it's not Jason's fault, we can only blame MGM for that.

[x_N1GHTW1NG_x]

100% agree with you replimagni xD