Genetral EU discussion.

[[KMA]Avenger]

so, what your saying is, that i might not find anything concrete because unlike the US, we dont have a single document on which all laws MUST comply with and cannot be disregarded...i'll do my best to find something, because its either legal to enter the EU or not.

[[KMA]Avenger]

hmmm...


[spoiler]Legal Policy Team
Legal Directorate
102 Petty France
London
SW1H 9AJ

T: 020 3334 3555
F: 020 3334 4455
E: xxxxxxx.xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xx

http://www.justice.gov.uk




Mr Ben Addison
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx


Your ref: TO263052 -TO09/5866
Date: 18 December 2009


Dear Mr Addison,

Thank you for your correspondence of 5 December where you have asked a further question relating to the principles of law within the English legal system.

Parliament is the supreme law-making authority in England and Wales and can legislate in whatever field of law it wishes. Laws passed by Parliament are referred to as Acts of Parliament or statute law. Statute law has become the commonest source of new laws or law reform since around the seventeenth century. Parliament can therefore legislate in all areas of law for example criminal, civil, commercial and public law.

Statute law has not, however superseded the common law. Both sources of law remain significant within the English legal system and apply side by side. It is only when an Act of Parliament deals with an area of law previously covered by case law that the common law is superseded.

As mentioned in previous correspondence, the development of the common law in the English legal system can be traced back to the twelfth century. Statute law did not develop as the primary source of law until around the seventeenth century. Statutes can amend or replace common law in a particular area, but the common law cannot overrule or change statutes. A statute can only be overruled or amended by another, later piece of legislation. This reflects the legal and political doctrine of Parliamentary Sovereignty - the recognition and acceptance that Parliament is the supreme law-making authority.

Parliament is the representative of the people through election to the House of Commons. Members of Parliament are elected to represent the people and by those elections they have been legitimately handed the power to assess, enact or reject legislation.

The transfer of primacy from the common law to statute law was a gradual process which occurred simultaneously to the process of Parliament acquiring additional powers and establishing itself as the supreme law-making authority. There is no formal documentation or written evidence, for example legislation, to confirm this transfer.

I hope that you find this information helpful.

Tania Williams[/spoiler]


ok, i think this is going to take me a while and To be honest, it's a complex issue that has not been fully agreed upon. It's open to different interpretations, obviously those in power know and will interpret it however it best suits them, and they may claim we would do the same.

I'll try answering some of the points, as I see it.

Some people claim the MC was only for the Nobility, Barons etc. yet nowhere in the document does it specify what a freeman is, so how can anyone prove who it was intended for? Being as none of us were present or party to it and very few people today can read Norman French.

The MC is still in effect today, MC statute of 1297, which was watered down from the original in 1215, but there are still active parts of the MC 1297 statute today, the rest has been repealed. In particular, and this is the most important point to many people, FIRST, We have granted to God, and by this our present Charter have confirmed, for Us and our Heirs for ever, that the Church of England shall be free, and shall have all her whole Rights and Liberties inviolable. We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties under-written, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever.

So how does anyone ever have authority to override the rights in the MC? I'd say they don't.

So nobody, no government, no Monarch has the authority to change the constitution, ever, even if they do, or try, it’s null & void, & treason.

The system in place now may claim that later statutes such as the Local Government Act, Magistrates’ Court Act, Crime & Disorder Act & Parliament Act have developed the system so that the House of Commons, our ‘representatives’ draft & pass bill etc. – many would argue that's Treason. Without the express wishes of the majority of the population can these laws be changed, amended or repealed? i'd say no, they can't.

And if they have been completed superseded in the eyes of the current system of ‘law’, it has only happened recently, being as it was only 70 years ago that Edward VIII was forced to abdicate (or volunteered to renounce depending on how you look at it) for supporting the Nazi’s, Nazi propagandists & supporters tried for Treason, & then in 1984 Michael Bettany for spying for the Russian’s.

So it’s not ok for people to produce propaganda & support the Nazi’s (just a foreign power) or spy for the Russian’s, but it’s ok to knowingly give the rule of this Nation to a foreign power, the EU?

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/ ... 0009_enm_1



Editorial Information

X1Variant reading of the text noted in The Statutes of the Realm as follows: To All to whom these present Letters shall come; Greeting.

[spoiler]HENRY by the Grace of God King of England, Lord of Ireland, Duke of Normandy and Guyan, and Earl of Anjou, to all Archbishops, Bishops, Abbots, Priors, Earls, Barons, Sheriffs, Provosts, Officers, and to all Bailiffs, and other our faithful Subjects, which shall see this present Charter, Greeting: Know Ye, that We, unto the honour of Almighty God, and for the salvation of (X1) the souls of our Progenitors and Successors [Kings of England,] to the advancement of Holy Church and amendment of our Realm, of our meer and free will, have given and granted to all Archbishops, Bishops, Abbots, Priors, Earls, Barons, and to all [Freemen] of this our Realm, these Liberties following, to be kept in our Kingdom of England [u]for ever.[/u][/spoiler]



hmmm...i'm going to go with the MC till i find something concrete.

anyways, i dont think the document (MC) was solely for barons and whatnot since freeman were not just barons or nobility...if i'm not mistaken.

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[[KMA]Avenger]

lol, thats not the point whether its legal and if i can take it to a court of law and stand on it mate, thats not what i'm getting at...

what i'm trying to establish here is 1stly, does the Govt or monarchy have the right to simply dismiss it or not. and if not, then charges of sedition and treason are in order...see where i'm coming from?


[spoiler]"And whereas the Laws of England are the Birthright of the People thereof and all the Kings and Queens who shall ascend the Throne of this Realm ought to administer the Government of the same according to the said Laws and all their Officers and Ministers ought to serve them respectively according to the same The said Lords Spirituall and Temporall and Commons do therefore further humbly pray That all the Laws and Statutes of this Realm for securing the established Religion and the Rights and Liberties of the People thereof and all other Laws and Statutes of the same now in Force may be ratified and confirmed And the same are by His Majesty by and with the Advice and Consent of the said Lords Spirituall and Temporall and Commons and by Authority of the same ratified and confirmed accordingly"[/spoiler]

edit, and just for the record, courts of law are not there for right and wrong or for justice mate...you should know that.

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[[KMA]Avenger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ation.html


As some of you may have read in the press recently, the EU says there is no proof that water prevents dehydration. aside from the obvious that this is absolute insanity to even debate this... this begs the question...how many fracking millions did this 3 year study cost while civil unrest is sweeping many if not all of the EU members due to lack of money!?!


When i first read the article i thought it was a joke and did double-takes at the calender to check if it was April 1st


These are the types of people that tell us what we can and cannot do, it's time these morons were shot and put out of their miserable existence.

Ps, I challenge the EU leadership to do us all a favour-lead by example and give up drinking water.

[Legendary Apophis]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8897662/EU-bans-claim-that-water-can-prevent-dehydration.html


As some of you may have read in the press recently, the EU says there is no proof that water prevents dehydration. aside from the obvious that this is absolute insanity to even debate this... this begs the question...how many fracking millions did this 3 year study cost while civil unrest is sweeping many if not all of the EU members due to lack of money!?!


When i first read the article i thought it was a joke and did double-takes at the calender to check if it was April 1st


These are the types of people that tell us what we can and cannot do, it's time these morons were shot and put out of their miserable existence.

While I agree this can be considered as nonsense, the last line of your post is ridiculous.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... laims.html
That, however, I knew.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Why is it ridiculous?

These morons have wasted valuable resources over a considerable amount of time. in years gone by that would be considered as fraud against the people and a high crime. are we now so civilised that we are above punishing incompetence?

Ps, Jim, we now have these guys dictating to us our laws...as a British citizen who was never give the chance to vote to live under such a system...i consider that as meddling in the internal affairs and workings of my nation. as such, i consider this to be nothing less than a declaration of war against us and for allowing these rules and regs from the EU to be introduced into my nation, a gross violation of QE2's coronation oath, and total treason by parliament who should be hung along side the EU leadership!


Going to far, some may think so, i say it's patriotic to support your nation and resist all foreign influence trying to undermine my chosen way of life.

Jim, you may have voted for all this, you may support it all you want, that's your right, but it's also my right to fight and say what i want against ANYTHING or ANYONE who tries to interfere with my chosen life. does that make us enemies, someone i should fight, you try and tell me how to live and you can bet your life it makes us enemies and i will settle for nothing less than the irradication of all foreign influence in my nation

[Legendary Apophis]

Lol kill people due to incompetence. Are you serious?


That's what Goa'ulds did in Stargate with their Jaffas.


Given your other stances, your ideal political system looks like a "people's dictatorship". Yuck.

Ps, Jim, we now have these guys dictating to us our laws...as a British citizen who was never give the chance to vote to live under such a system...i consider that as meddling in the internal affairs and workings of my nation. as such, i consider this to be nothing less than a declaration of war against us and for allowing these rules and regs from the EU to be introduced into my nation, a gross violation of QE2's coronation oath, and total treason by parliament who should be hung along side the EU leadership!


Going to far, some may think so, i say it's patriotic to support your nation and resist all foreign influence trying to undermine my chosen way of life.

Jim, you may have voted for all this, you may support it all you want, that's your right, but it's also my right to fight and say what i want against ANYTHING or ANYONE who tries to interfere with my chosen life. does that make us enemies, someone i should fight, you try and tell me how to live and you can bet your life it makes us enemies and i will settle for nothing less than the irradication of all foreign influence in my nation

With this argument I'm surely going to be open to anti-EU stance...only thing you achieved is that you guys appear much more dangerous than the so called "New World Order" you claim to be a danger.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Jim, we now have these guys dictating to us our laws...as a British citizen who was never given the chance to vote to live under such a system...i consider that as meddling in the internal affairs and workings of my nation. as such, i consider this to be nothing less than an act and declaration of war against us....for allowing these rules and regs from the EU to be introduced into my nation, a gross violation of QE2's coronation oath, and total treason by parliament who should be hung along side the EU leadership!


Going to far, some may think so, i say it's patriotic to support your nation and resist all foreign influence trying to undermine my chosen way of life.

Jim, you may have voted for all this, you may support it all you want, that's your right, but it's also my right to fight and say what i want against ANYTHING or ANYONE who tries to interfere with my chosen life. does that make us enemies, someone i should fight, you try and tell me how to live and you can bet your life it makes us enemies and i will settle for nothing less than the irradiation of all foreign influence in my nation


As you may know about me, i HATE anything that encroaches on my freedoms and liberties. if the people try to do the same then i will be as against the masses as i am against current governmental systems.

Let me be clear, I WANT TO BE FREE! that does not mean i live in a lawless society. if i do no harm then nobody has the right to tell me anything. if i give up that right to be free by harming, or causing the harm of others, or by fraud and deceit i expect to be punished HARSHLY!

[Legendary Apophis]

A "people's government" will lead to something "dictating way of life" as well, simply because there are people made to be leaders, even within the lower class, some are more made to be leaders than others. And these particular people will have a view of society you might not agree with. People's government would easily lead to a dictatorship. Because the system wouldn't be as complex as it is now, and the people having leadership would be tempted -and less blocked to do so- to gain more power, as it would be easier. Power of persuasion by tyrans and demagogic leaders in the Athens democracy you seem to see as example should be a good example.

[[KMA]Avenger]

I put it to you that-that's exactly what we are all living under already, a dictatorship since you and i are never consulted on or asked if "this is what we want" on ANY given issue...is that not the very definition of dictatorship, when those who are "leaders" do what they want when they want, (as well as when they are caught lying and starting wars based on lies and falsehoods, they are never punished. and when caught stealing public money as was the case with the expenses scandal-they are NEVER punished) as is the case with my Govt, your Govt and the EU leadership?


Besides, that's why man invented the concept of a constitution, a set of laws and rules that bind Govts and the people to prevent a dictatorship forming, as well as guaranteeing and protecting the rights of the governed....

And, the UK DOES have a constitution which has been undermined by our leaders. this is absolute fact...looking at KF...for 1 simple reason, if we never or do not have a constitution, how is it then that all the commonwealth nations also have constitutions which the Magna Carta and Bill of Rights were the model for all the rest!?! the fact the the UK constitution is not in affect within our legal system and parliament does not matter, it clearly shows that our parliament and our monarchy are all traitors for undermining it.

Not trying to start another debate about it, just making a point since that is relevant to the debate.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Spain to ration toilet paper to school children in new wave of austerity measures.

I would laugh if this wasn't so sad!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -cuts.html



I'd like to see what you guys have to say about this article!!!!!

http://www.infowars.com/eu-to-seize-con ... -of-a-pen/

[MEZZANINE]

I'd like to see what you guys have to say about this article!!!!!

http://www.infowars.com/eu-to-seize-con ... -of-a-pen/

Yeah tis all over the news, and TBH it was inevitable and necessary in the EU structure, if you have a group of countries interlinked in a common currency, no point bailing out countries that overspend if they are free to keep overspending and living beyond their means else you will be bailing them out for ever.

Much as I hate the idea of a European Federation ( United States of Europe lol ), I must admit I like this move, basically any country that rejects it must admit they dont want to be in the EU.

I am of course very happy that the UK is NOT in the common currency, does NOT need bailouts with this conditional surrender of sovereign power and even though I dont like the fact we never got a referendum on the last couple of treaties I am very pleased that the UK now has a law in place that says NO more treaties or giving away of sovereign power without a future referendum.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Much as I hate the idea of a European Federation ( United States of Europe lol ), I must admit I like this move, basically any country that rejects it must admit they dont want to be in the EU.

Are they also reporting how Goldman Sachs and many people from the media are bragging that Goldman now owns Europe?

I don't understand how you of all people can say that. the banks caused all this, you know that, i know it and so does everybody else. example, in Iceland, once the people got their hands on the facts it was revealed to the whole nation that upwards of 90% of the nations debt was NOT owed by the people but by the banks who had been gambling with their customers money. when the justifiably outraged people of Iceland told the banks and bankers to go screw themselves, Iceland was branded by the UK media as a terrorist nation.
This is the EXACT same situation in every nation that has needed to bailout it's banking system...the bankers need to be brought to book for financial terrorism...


Have you heard what John Corzine has done in the US causing MF Global to collapse, and taking with it all the customers money?