Genetral EU discussion.

[Legendary Apophis]

France gets a credit downgrade by S&P, from AAA to AA. I've been listening to a few economic experts who are saying this is not a 1 off, there's going to be another credit downgrading for France coming this year....

Not having a dig at you Jim, or anything like that, i'm simply relaying the latest economic news with relation to the EU.

This is NOT good news at all!

I am believing more and more that these agencies (S&P, Moody's...) are a bunch of troublemakers theorists who are trolling countries who are trying to get off this crisis...I prefer not to imagine if the socialist candidate (well this party refuses to be called social-democrat..) for upcoming presidential elections wins, the downgrading will be even bigger consider the reputation of spenders they have.

Also, it's a single rate drop, like 10/10 down to 9/10, not like some countries who lost two levels, even think (unsure) one did lose three at once. It's not something positive obviously and rather negative, I fear the main effect will be that people as blinded as they are, will blame the current government and will vote for the left wing, and it's obviously not like this that we would get back the AAA...

Austria also lost their AAA. Austria considered to be one of these "serious" nations along with Germany and Netherlands regarding budget...

When did that happen, Friday the 13th...something I didn't miss.

[[KMA]Avenger]

I agree Jim (did i just say that "i agree" with Jim?! ), these credit agencies are about as straight as as Al Capone, especially when you consider that France gets a credit downgrade and is now at the same level as the US when the US is in MUCH more debt than France.


The so called "experts" in charge of OUR money have no idea how to fix the worlds debt problems. what happened in 08 with the mortgage bubble bursting which has lead to today's debt problems is going to seem like nothing more than an overture in the next year or so.

Right now the EU is being bailout by the US Fed and the US Fed in turn is being propped up by China, but when China finally says enough is enough and decides that taking a 2 trillion loss is better than taking a 10 trillion loss the music is going to stop and people will finally see there are no chairs to sit on.

[Legendary Apophis]

One of those agencies is owned by a french aristocrat so I suppose this one won't be bothering France with a drop for now.

Main threat that didn't come to my mind earlier is the fact it would endanger the stability of the European Financial Stability Facility agency, which is a bad thing...

[[KMA]Avenger]

I agree that these agencies are not the most honest, but as far as the stability of the EU or any of it's agencies goes, it's best the whole thing collapses now instead of later, later will be worse because the debt will be BIGGER.


1 other thing to consider as far as global (not just EU) financial stability goes, is this business with Iran. if the embargo goes ahead the Chinese who rely on Iranian crude might just cut all US bond and treasury funding there and then.

[Legendary Apophis]

Angela Merkel to support Nicolas Sarkozy's reelection. Hermann Gröhe, CDU's secretary was even present in the National Convention of UMP -the french equivalent of CDU/CSU- to affirm support to Nicolas Sarkozy for his reelection, and criticized the socialist candidate's program.

About Merkel support to Sarkozy campaign.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15701290,00.html

German Chancellor Angela Merkel is to "actively support" French President Nicolas Sarkozy in his campaign for re-election, her conservative Christian Democrat (CDU) party said in Berlin Sunday.

"The CDU chairwoman, Chancellor Angela Merkel, will actively support Nicolas Sarkozy with joint appearances in the election campaign in the spring," the CDU said in a statement.

The CDU is the ideological counterpart to Sarkozy's UMP, and the two leaders - often dubbed "Merkozy" for their close political cooperation - both have an interest in keeping each other in office.

However, it is rare for German political leaders to insert themselves into foreign elections.

CDU Secretary General Hermann Gröhe has already taken part in UMP campaign events. In a speech in Paris on Saturday, he said the policies of Sarkozy's Socialist opponent, Francois Hollande, would weaken Europe.

(...)

I'm curious now whether other (EPP) head of gov will show +/- support to France president's reelection. Maybe Mariano Rajoy (Spain's new PM, Partido Popular), I dunno...

Surprising to see German chancellor to support a candidate in elections, but I suppose a time of crisis and the fact even Germany is still at risk to be endangered by the crisis motivated such support, thinking another candidate would be a handicap to reforms and fix.
Probably the silly comments by some socialist representatives about Germany and Angela Merkel recently, might have played a little role in this.

[[KMA]Avenger]

I hope it's c'est fini for this globalist satanist scumbag and pray the French people find and elect their own Ron Paul...


Sorry if that offends you Jim, all i can say is that this is NOT a personal attack on you, it's an attack against this traitor to the French people and to humanity-Merkozy...sorry Sarkozy.

[Legendary Apophis]

I hope it's c'est fini for this globalist satanist scumbag and pray the French people find and elect their own Ron Paul...


Sorry if that offends you Jim, all i can say is that this is NOT a personal attack on you, it's an attack against this traitor to the French people and to humanity-Merkozy...sorry Sarkozy.

Don't worry the favorite of elections is from left wing, will give right for extra-European foreigners to vote, legalize soft drugs, legalize homosexual marriage, however he's political correctness strict defender so no he won't be a Ron Paul just a liberal (parti socialiste is left wing with rather left wing ideas). He'll also participate to aggravate further France's economy by being a big spender, so you can be happy (?) we will be in a more problematic situation (someone worse than the current but someone else nonetheless)! That is, if he's elected, which I hope he won't, and instead hope for a reelection of current president, for the nation's sake. Because let's be honest, even if he did mistakes, there's nobody else better in the run. Well, there's one other candidate who's not bad, the centrist candidate (MoDem), but otherwise, nothing better.
There is no "Ron Paul" in France, also, libertarianism isn't in our traditions either and I am VERY GLAD it remains so!

As for satanist.

I'll take a picture of myself doing the "sign" and post it so you can say I am satanist too ok? If that's the criteria, lol it's a world of satanists...

Also I couldn't give a damn if he's a so called "traitor" according to this or that conspiracy site, because I will vote for Nicolas Sarkozy in 2012 anyway.

[[KMA]Avenger]

No Jim, i don't call him a Satanist because of 1 picture or because some dodgy site says so. i have done my home work on him, the British leadership (past and present, including the "Royal" family), the Vatican leadership (popes cardinals, bishops, past and present, not all but most of them), the Americans (past and present), the Saudis and others...they are all either Paedophiles, Homosexual, bisexual, drug addicts, murderers or Satanists, in most cases they are ALL of the above!

Remember the Deutro affair in Belgium (they speak French don't they?) where it broke in the news that the Belgian leadership were engaging in paedophilia and murder as well if memory serves?

What about the Barney Frank affair, where senator Barney Frank hired the services of a male prostitute and was running a male prostitution ring from his home? lets not forget the Whitehouse male prostitute and child sexual scandal affairs?

Have you read my UN thread i posted a few days ago which no one seems bothered about?

Listen to Richard Nixon talk about those that go to The Bohemian Grove: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPb-PN9F2Pc

Now go and do your own research about the attendees of the annual summer gathering in the Bohemian Grove of some of the most influential people in the world, from politics to industry to banking to show business.

Once you've done that, go watch Stanley Kubricks film Eyes wide shut (if you haven't seen it already) and see why he was murdered.

Those are just a few scandals that broke and were to big to cover up. nearly all of it never gets reported on by the mainstream...and by the way, OFFICIAL numbers now show that the so called "mainstream media" is actually dying and that alternative media is now number 1 world wide, both on radio and the net. if to be classed as the "mainstream" you have to have the numbers, then the alternative media is now the mainstream and the old mainstream media are now the "conspiracy theorists".


This is from MY OWN research. i heard the info, i didn't believe it so i looked it up for myself just after i quit playing SGW. you should try doing your own research some time...it's a real eye opener!

[Legendary Apophis]

I've heard the song about Bohemian Grove and the Illuminati and all that stuff already, damn it, I have better things to do than spend my time trying to find darkness theories from behind the lights. It's not much better than the fake books of the late XIXth century created to provoke antisemitism among populations. You probably see what kind of books I'm talking about...
As for alternative medias being now mainstream, I very much doubt it, you probably mistake online version of mainstream medias with it being alternative.

Homosexual, bisexual,

What's the problem with that? I might not be in favor of homosexual marriage, but one of the few things I share with your Ron Paul, is that I am in favor of civil unions for these people, because even though I am in favor of keeping marriage what it is, I don't have grudges against homosexuals, which you seem to have by listing paedophil along with bisexual people and homosexual. Sure there are paedophil homosexuals/bisexual obviously, but being homosexual/bisexual in itself isn't something to condemn as being paedophil. There you see, you got a mistake. I'm not trying to attract attention elsewhere, but that thing caught me as being wrong, in a different way than the dark stories.

[[KMA]Avenger]

I edited the above but you had posted, so here it is for you to see:

All of that aside, so, you would vote for Sarkozy again, and if he quits you would vote for the next person who is most like Sarkozy....in short, you would vote for more of the same even though these people have helped screw up your nation and the worlds global economy??

Lets examine your logic a bit closer shall we?!

Albert Einstein said:
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."


Going by Albert Einstein, you are "insane", so you have no leg to stand on when criticising ANYTHING i say


Have a nice day Jim

I've heard the song about Bohemian Grove and the Illuminati and all that stuff already, damn it, I have better things to do than spend my time trying to find darkness theories from behind the lights. It's not much better than the fake books of the late XIXth century created to provoke antisemitism among populations. You probably see what kind of books I'm talking about...
As for alternative medias being now mainstream, I very much doubt it, you probably mistake online version of mainstream medias with it being alternative.

Homosexual, bisexual,

What's the problem with that?

To respond to all of what you said would require i spend more time typing than i currently am willing to devote. so i will just say this and hopefully it covers it....EVERYTHING!

[Legendary Apophis]

All of that aside, so, you would vote for Sarkozy again, and if he quits you would vote for the next person who is most like Sarkozy....in short, you would vote for more of the same even though these people have helped screw up your nation and the worlds global economy??

Lets examine your logic a bit closer shall we?!

Albert Einstein said:
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."


Going by Albert Einstein, you are "insane", so you have no leg to stand on when criticising ANYTHING i say

I don't expect a different result, seriously, why would I vote for a similar candidate if I wanted different result???

Regarding Bohemian Grove, well, I find their rites to be completely silly, but well, their membership is secret right? So how could I know whether one politician is member of them for sure? Because when it's secret, it's easier to lie and pretend...one can attribute membership to almost any politician except you see them attend/have them declare their are members.
Even IF I was to become hostile to the establishment and libertarian (chances are very small on that), there is no Ron Paul in France, and politics interest me too much to boycott elections due to lack of a french Ron Paul.

Regarding homosexuality/bisexuality, well to each their own opinions I guess. I used to be like you about them, but I realized there were much more condemning kind of people than these and that you even find this sexuality among the animals lol.

[[KMA]Avenger]

I wonder who the owners of those 2 faces are on either side of the speaker? Jim, if you REALLY wanted to find out what is going on in the world, why it's happening and who is really to blame for the wars and financial collapse, you would do what i just did...Google "Bohemian Grove Attendees" and find all sorts of info, some is pure BS and some are true. you learn to distinguish truth and reality from the BS the more you research. so i don't accept the reply "Regarding Bohemian Grove, well, I find their rites to be completely silly, but well, their membership is secret right? So how could I know whether one politician is member of them for sure?"


Anyways, enough for now. see you later


Edit, i wonder who these war criminals and paedophile Nazi scum are?













Heres to hoping you open your eyes sooner rather than later, later will be to late!

[Legendary Apophis]

Yes I recognize Reagan and Nixon in the first picture.
I don't have particularly sympathy for Bush family nor Newt Gingrich...did I appear otherwise?
Also, that image doesn't even load completely.

But this talk about Bohemian Grove would more belong in the "American best country of the world" thread or whatever it's called, than here though lol

[[KMA]Avenger]

Forgetting everything that i said above and moving on...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-2 ... -fees.html


How about Sarkozy and all the rest of the worlds leaders stop taxing the living **Filtered** out of the working man, take control of the worlds money supply away from the international banking family's, take away the ill-gotten fortunes of the ultra rich, and by ultra rich i mean the multi trillionaire/billionaire family's like the Rothschild's, Rockefeller's, Gates, Dupont's The Windsor's to name just 5 and throw them to the lions...sorry, my extremist...or should i say, realist side got the better of me again

[Legendary Apophis]

German Fix
The value-added tax increase, which would echo one of the measures Germany used over the past 10 years to boost its own competitiveness, has been floated by Sarkozy since December. The plan is largely supported by economists and business leaders who say that it may help boost exports, growth and eventually job creation.
The measures “are a step in the right direction, but what I’d like to see created is a shock of competitiveness,” PSA Peugeot Citroen (UG) SA Chief Executive Philippe Varin said Jan. 27.
France’s exports have lagged behind those of its major trading partners in the past decade. Between 2000 and 2010, shipments of manufactured goods to other countries rose 50 percent to $409 billion, according to the World Trade Organization. Germany’s exports rose 126 percent and Italy’s rose 72 percent.

Taken from article you quoted. Also, it would if I'm not mistaken just put TVA close to what's currently taxed in Belgium.