Genetral EU discussion.

[[KMA]Avenger]

The plan is largely supported by economists and business leaders

Would those be the same "economists and business leaders" who have robbed the worlds economy and destroyed while putting the debt onto the people who DO NOT OWE this money?


It's so simple, take back control of the money supply and you fix 90+% of the worlds problems...including the wars and poverty.

[MEZZANINE]

Value Added Tax - Now theres an contradiction in terms. How exactly does it add value ? All it adds is cost, and higher cost for the same product is less value, should be called Value Reduction Tax.


Exports are down across Europe, well theres a shocker, we have minimum wages, health & safety, insurance costs, huge taxes, employee's rights, environmental laws etc and we cant complete with the likes of China, WOW didnt see that coming.

Everyone is so into the global markets and free trade but these things are bad IMO, we should have import taxes to allow native manufacturing to compete with cheap imports. And all the Green bollo....erm I mean nonsense, try taxing fuel for Cargo ships and airplanes instead of constantly pounding the individuals who have to drive to work, have you seen the price of aviation fuel compared to domestic fuels ? And the difference in pollution output from the same, makes no sense at all.

So prices on consumer electronics, fancy clothes & such would rise, good, these things are meant to be luxuries, saved up for and appreciated, not disposable crap made in sweatshops, replaced every few months and dumped in landfills.


'Credit Crunch' wonder who came up with that little soundbite, more like realistic and sensible lending to those that can afford to repay it, and much needed after decades of borrow & spend. People seem to have this insane idea that they should all have everything they want right now and that paying for it can be deferred indefinitely, try saving up for the things you want, earning the money and appreciating the value of the item when you buy it.



Economics, the question of Austerity -v- Public Investment. Actually both have a part to play, Austerity measures are needed in the area's of ongoing permanent spending which got way out of control, but at the same time short term public works can provide much needed stimulus. In the UK we have a serious housing shortage, not because of lack of land, developers are sitting on huge plots of land artificially increasing demand to increase prices. If the government made compulsory purchase of the land, undertook public works to build housing and sold that housing to the 10s of thousands who need it at below market rates ( or on shared ownership deals with our publicly owned bank RBS ), they would not only solve the housing shortage, not only create huge amounts of jobs and spending in related sectors, but if managed properly actually make a profit.

And on the subject of publicly owned banks ( Like RBS ), we are told it's ours and the government are not using their shareholder rights to enforce changes, so give it to the people in the form of shares for ever taxpayer, then let the new shareholders vote on how it should be run.

Rank over....... for now

[[KMA]Avenger]

Mikis Theodorakis: An Open Letter On the Truth About Greece.


This is an excellent article by the world famous Greek songwriter/musician and ex-political prisoner Mikis Theodorakis which is posted on Infowars: http://www.infowars.com/mikis-theodorak ... ut-greece/

For those of you who maybe interested

[MEZZANINE]

Mikis Theodorakis: An Open Letter On the Truth About Greece.


This is an excellent article by the world famous Greek songwriter/musician and ex-political prisoner Mikis Theodorakis which is posted on Infowars: http://www.infowars.com/mikis-theodorak ... ut-greece/

For those of you who maybe interested

Mate, there might be a few truths buried in all that BS, but who could find them. The guy is nuts, he seems to think the whole world is conspiring to destroy him and he should seek professional help.

[[KMA]Avenger]

You mean there is nobody trying to....get us?


So Greece going bankrupt really is because of lazy Greeks sitting around drinking ouzo and playing backgammon...while the EU installs a Goldman Sachs banker and tells Greece to EF-OFF, and have a fire sale of everything Greece owns...

I have a bridge for sale that stretches from the moon to Mars if anyone is interested....anyone???

[MEZZANINE]

You mean there is nobody trying to....get us?


So Greece going bankrupt really is because of lazy Greeks sitting around drinking ouzo and playing backgammon...while the EU installs a Goldman Sachs banker and tells Greece to EF-OFF, and have a fire sale of everything Greece owns...

I have a bridge for sale that stretches from the moon to Mars if anyone is interested....anyone???

Not saying thats it the Greeks fault at all, well not the average man/woman in the street Greeks anyways, obviously some off the leaders carry a big share of the blame for fiddling the books to join the EU, piss poor management, over spending and borrowing out of control.

And yes the EU as previously stated several times has royally screwed Greece in a failed attempt to create their crazy 'United States of Europe' dream, but Im certain they didnt do it deliberately destroy Greece as this guys rant claims.

And yes the banks and other international commercial interest all smelt the blood and took advantage hurting Greece further to line their own pockets, but again not personal, these scum would and do that to anyone, their interest is money and the damage they do is not the motivation, the damage doesnt even occur to them since they couldnt do what they do if they had even a hint of humanity.

The guy you quoted seems to think it's a giant conspiracy to destroy him and his country, it's not, sad truth is most people outside Greece dont care or give it any thought, Greece made some huge mistakes and the sharks did what they would do to anyone.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Sorry to say it mate but it actually was a conspiracy to destroy Greece....but we are not just talking about Greece here. all the EU member states who are in trouble are also part of the conspirators plans. it's not just about poor Greece, Portugal are already in trouble as you know and may well be next to fall.


The article is biased in that the guy doesn't mention any other nation apart from his own, but the man is elderly now so who can blame him for not mentioning the rest?!

[MEZZANINE]

Sorry to say it mate but it actually was a conspiracy to destroy Greece....but we are not just talking about Greece here. all the EU member states who are in trouble are also part of the conspirators plans. it's not just about poor Greece, Portugal are already in trouble as you know and may well be next to fall.


The article is biased in that the guy doesn't mention any other nation apart from his own, but the man is elderly now so who can blame him for not mentioning the rest?!

Honestly mate, you know Im anti-EU but I dont see why the EU would want to bankrupt nations that have already committed themselves to full EU membership, it makes no sense, Greece has even threatened to leave the EU over it's current problems so if if anything it pushes them in the opposite direction to the one the EU nutters want.

Greece was already a submissive EU member state so to say the EU are in on a conspiracy to destroy them is insane.



What worries me more as a UK citizen is the Combined EU military forces idea that is being developed, history has shown that militaries of European nations never work well together, they hate taking orders from each other, they cant bare the thought of laying down lives for each other, hell they cant even agree to speak the same language. The only times they have ever tolerated each other is when they had absolutely no other choice.

While our press us focused on celebratory phone tapping, Greek debt and politicians petty name calling in the PM questions, behind the scenes our sovereign navy is being disbanded, ships decommissioned, ships and aircraft under construction being shut down, and we are being made reliant on French ships to protect our overseas interests. It disturbs me greatly and I see it ending badly, we need to scrap imported Nukes and spend the money on UK conventional forces, maintain our own sovereign defense and ability to act unilaterally if & when needed. If we're going to share the cost/use of anything with the EU let it be the Nuclear deterrent which will never be used anyway.

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[[KMA]Avenger]

Sorry to say it mate but it actually was a conspiracy to destroy Greece....but we are not just talking about Greece here. all the EU member states who are in trouble are also part of the conspirators plans. it's not just about poor Greece, Portugal are already in trouble as you know and may well be next to fall.


The article is biased in that the guy doesn't mention any other nation apart from his own, but the man is elderly now so who can blame him for not mentioning the rest?!

Honestly mate, you know Im anti-EU but I dont see why the EU would want to bankrupt nations that have already committed themselves to full EU membership, it makes no sense, Greece has even threatened to leave the EU over it's current problems so if if anything it pushes them in the opposite direction to the one the EU nutters want.

Greece was already a submissive EU member state so to say the EU are in on a conspiracy to destroy them is insane.

"insane" Not really if you think about it. it's the same as the mafia moving in on an established business, say a restaurant and driving it into the ground by ordering the booze and food and selling it out the back door, not paying the bills and setting the place on fire and claiming the insurance once you have taken everything you can. corporations do the same when buying out their competition and selling of all the assets. the EU itself is not wholly responsible for what's going on throughout Europe. they are in with the banks who have orchestrated the mess the whole world finds itself in.

Fixing the problem is easy, bring back all the banking regulations that were put in place after the great depression which stopped the banks from doing what they did back then.

Also, take a look at what happened to Argentina. if you look at Argentina as a microcosm of today's global financial problems you begin to understand what's happening today. there used to be a saying, "as rich as an Argentine", Argentina was the worlds richest nation. per-capita, they were richer than the US(because they had nationalised their oil industry and the profits of these public oil company's were put back into the nations infrastructure. this is one of the reasons i STRONGLY oppose privatisation. a nations assets and resources rightfully belongs to the people and Govt has no right whatsoever to sell these off). but as soon as the IMF (in bed with the Argentine Govt) went into their country and sold them loans (being so rich, they obviously did not need loans from anyone), they lost everything. the agreements of these "loans" stipulated that all public assets had to be sold off and privatised...is that not what is happening in Greece?

The IMF has done this to many nations, look what they did to Jamaica. if you are not aware of what happened to Jamaica because of the IMF. watch an excellent film called Life and Debt which you can find here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZE2L3_980
Now that all banking regulations have been lifted, banks are bankrupting whole nations using derivatives. it's the IMF model, they just use a different vehicle but the result is the same....a bankrupted, broken and sold-off nation stuck in escalating debt that can never be repaid.

As for the above article, the best way to read it is to see it as relating to Greece and Greece alone, even though this crap is going on all over.....

Oh, just for the record, all the BRIC nations are experiencing growth (don't know the average % at which they are growing, but i do know Brazil is growing at a steady 7 to 8% a year), and they all have 1 thing in common, they didn't allow the banks to come into their nations and sell them junk derivatives.

Also (not directed at anyone in particular), i see allot of comments all over the place about how poor Greece is and how badly Greece needs the EU. that is ridiculous. Greece does not need the EU if her economy was managed properly. Greece had allot of exports, fruit and veg, wines olives (the best olive region in the world bar none is Kalamata). from the late 40's to the mid 80's Greece had a global music industry, stretching from the US to Aus to the UK. being Greek i have many albums from those times and on the back the names of the songs and the songwriters and all credits are in English as well as Greek, that's all gone. Greece also had a MASSIVE shipping industry which thanks to the EU has been dismantled and sold off, to say nothing of it's tourist and fishing industry's. Greece had allot to offer, and she could get it all or nearly all back IF they kick out the EU and arrest the bankers and the Govt.




Edit, now might be a good time to start stocking up on food and other survival gear

http://etfdailynews.com/2012/02/16/gree ... e-ewq-gld/

[[KMA]Avenger]

I'm sick of having to foot the the bill for banksters gambling!


Now that my thoughts are out of the way, how do our British members here like paying for someone else's debt?


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/303 ... -EU-crisis


Edit, more of my thoughts...i wasn't asked if i wanted my country to sign up to all these EU trade agreements and i certainly wasn't asked if i was happy with paying for these eurocrats mad and unworkable dream of a single euro state. the obvious is that this latest farce solves nothing and only kicks the can down the road, making the EU's eventual collapse even bigger than it otherwise would be.

These "rescue" bailouts need to stop and the EU needs to be disassembled and every single one of the **Filtered** arrested before they plunge the whole of the European continent into civil war or national wars or both. at the very least, the EU's inevitable collapse will leave all of the European peoples paying a debt that will make our current debt levels look like the proverbial drop in the ocean....


MADNESS!!!!


Edit, more of my ramblings...i mean thoughts...

This guy is in charge of the UK's treasury. as such, he should be the best financial brain that we have to offer, just look at what he says...

Chancellor George Osborne claimed the deal would be “good for Britain because resolving the eurozone crisis would be the biggest boost that Britain could get for its economy this year”.

WT F! is he a moron? scratch that, he **Filtered** well is a moron! how the **Filtered** is borrowing money and throwing it into a bottomless pit of debt going to solve the euro criss?

Any 10 year old should be able to tell you that borrowing money at interest to pay off other borrowed monies and their accumulated interest and then doing that very same thing over and over will only increase the debt to the point of bust....


**Filtered** **Filtered**!

[MEZZANINE]

I dont understand it mate, no one in the UK does hence why every poll taken says 'Get us out of this EU BS' NOW. The real shame is we dont have a credible anti-EU party to vote for, so much for democracy.

The EU has always cost the UK more than it benefited us, this latest waste of money just puts it further in the red, makes no sense for the UK to be in the EU and thats why no politician can give us real argument in it's favor, and why the politicians wont hold a referendum despite countless promises.

All we want is the original Common Market for trade, the rest is just the insane dreams of power hungry Federalists who wants to control every aspect of every country.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Putting all the conspiracy facts (it's not a theory pops, its a FACT!) to 1 side...what's really staggering about all this is that the British "bulldog spirit" is nowhere to be seen. for a nation which prided itself of standing alone against Hitler for what, 3 or 4 years? and suffering what the British suffered, both on land and sea all over the world, we are kind of pitiful and deserve everything we get if we don't demand our "leaders" ( ) get the **Filtered** out of the EU IMMEDIATELY.

The Brave heroes of WW2 who fought against this very crap must be doing somersaults in their graves!


The EU is nothing more than a dictatorship. first they told Ireland that they couldn't have any more elections until they sorted themselves out (that's not bloody likely to happen any time soon), now they openly force Greece and her people to accept this bailout and all it's conditions....FFS, Greece is the cradle of democracy and the free world, what the **Filtered** is wrong with that picture?!

[Juliette]

I'm sick of having to foot the the bill for banksters gambling!

You do not pay taxes, so stop fussing.

[MEZZANINE]

Putting all the conspiracy facts (it's not a theory pops, its a FACT!) to 1 side...what's really staggering about all this is that the British "bulldog spirit" is nowhere to be seen. for a nation which prided itself of standing alone against Hitler for what, 3 or 4 years? and suffering what the British suffered, both on land and sea all over the world, we are kind of pitiful and deserve everything we get if we don't demand our "leaders" ( ) get the **Filtered** out of the EU IMMEDIATELY.

The Brave heroes of WW2 who fought against this very crap must be doing somersaults in their graves!


The EU is nothing more than a dictatorship. first they told Ireland that they couldn't have any more elections until they sorted themselves out (that's not bloody likely to happen any time soon), now they openly force Greece and her people to accept this bailout and all it's conditions....FFS, Greece is the cradle of democracy and the free world, what the **Filtered** is wrong with that picture?!

The art of distraction & misdirection mate, governments in the UK and worldwide use it to devastating effect, if people focused on one issue they would rise up, strike, protest etc, but everyone is to busy being angry over what in comparison is petty stuff like the expenses scandel and phone hacking, just like ancient Rome you through some sacrifices to the lions to keep the mob happy, keep people too busy to think by working them and entertaining them.


You know whats going to happen next year in the UK, all working people will be forced by law to take out private pensions and employers will deduct it directly from salaries, could be about 10-15% of workers disposable incomes, money people simply cant spare with the rising cost of living. And do you know where this money will go ? Thats right, the banks who will administer the pension pots and invest them in our names.

Makes me wish I believed in god, because only a god can save us now lol