Should an ID list be against the rules?

[Jack_]

I thought I should open an official topic solely to discuss whether or not ID pairs (or an ID list) should be allowed to be posted and shared on these forums.
To prevent to topic being closed/locked early by the moderators please do your absolute best not to post spam, pics and off-topic comments in this topic.
Please be clear and straight-forward when posting your opinions and do your best to explain why you think so, whichever side you happen to choose.
Let's decide this issue once and for all, shall we!

PS. Please keep in mind that any laws (rules) that can't be enforced, should not be put in place in the first place!
ie. If it is decided that posting ID pairs is against the rules, then there will always exist a 'black-market' that deals in this information!
Such lists will always exist, so why let them only be possessed by the elite and powerful, wouldn't it be better and fairer for everyone if a complete list was free and open for all to see?

[Guild]

if you want one, pay for one or make one

not hard, stop making such a fuss about it

[Kikaz]

It is not against the rules to possess such a list, or posting it elsewhere, but posting the stats of other players without their permission has always been against the rules of these forums.

While some disagree that an ID is a stat, those list were made from thousands of God quests and matched with their main ID's. Thus, the main realm is a spyable stat, if the name of the god in the higher plain is not the same in the lower plain.

If you wish for an ascended ID list so bad apply to join DDE, The Legion, or MaYHeM. All of which I know have completed lists, because I have seen them all at different points throughout my seven years in this game.

If you wish for it to be public knowledge so bad, create a free forum and post the list in a public section.. though by doing this you will make a LOT of enemies.

There are only a handfull of players TRULY untouchable in the ascended realm, and none in the main realm... Remember that when yours and everyone elses' ascended ID's become public knowledge free to be looked upon at anyones whim...

[The Doctor]

Another topic? Your last poll on this was 12 to 4 against you.

Also, Moved.

[Clarkey]

Another topic? Your last poll on this was 12 to 4 against you.

Also, Moved.

To be fair Jack's previous poll was about whether the forum Moderators (you in that case) were being unfair. Although it was regarding the same issue, this one is not about whether Moderators are being unfair, but is about whether posting ID lists of main and ascended accounts should be against the rules.

As for the topic at hand I voted Yes.

My reason behind this is that as posting other peoples strike, defence, covert etc is against the rules the same should be said for linking IDs. I say this because to get someone's strike, defence etc you need to spy their account (in most cases). To spy their account you need to have a good covert level (in most cases) and take a risk of failing, losing some of your spies and being caught and identified by the target.

Now to identify someone's main account from their ascended account you have to God Quest them. This is the same as spying someone.

If ID lists linking main and ascended accounts should be allowed on the forum, then Jason might as well remove the God Quest function from Ascended because that's all it is really good for, and visibly show ingame someones main or ascended ID that is linked with the account.

But as the situation stands, Jason has designed the game for the person that wants to find out the link between IDs they have to conduct a God Quest. So posting the links between accounts on the forum for all to see should be considered as stat posting and is against the forum rules.

@Jack, you say why should these lists be held by only the elite and powerful. Well clearly you do not know how the God Questing works, because if you did then you'd know that you don't have to be elite or powerful. All you need to have is a lot of time and patience. You don't need to be elite and powerful to have time and patience.

Jack, you have provided no substantial reason as to why posting links between IDs should NOT be against rules.

These are my reasons as to why it is and should be against rules.

[Clarkey]

Oh and just thought i'd say that voting systems like this for something like this are a fail.
Anyone can vote an option then login to their multi accounts and vote more but never post a reason for their choice.

For example Jack, you are a multi account on the forum, but who's to say you won't vote 'no' using your Jack account then again with your other account and people not knowing you've done it. I'm only using you as an example, but imagine tons of people doing that.

[Jack_]

Another topic? Your last poll on this was 12 to 4 against you.

Also, Moved.

To be fair Jack's previous poll was about whether the forum Moderators (you in that case) were being unfair. Although it was regarding the same issue, this one is not about whether Moderators are being unfair, but is about whether posting ID lists of main and ascended accounts should be against the rules.

As for the topic at hand I voted Yes.

My reason behind this is that as posting other peoples strike, defence, covert etc is against the rules the same should be said for linking IDs. I say this because to get someone's strike, defence etc you need to spy their account (in most cases). To spy their account you need to have a good covert level (in most cases) and take a risk of failing, losing some of your spies and being caught and identified by the target.

Now to identify someone's main account from their ascended account you have to God Quest them. This is the same as spying someone.

If ID lists linking main and ascended accounts should be allowed on the forum, then Jason might as well remove the God Quest function from Ascended because that's all it is really good for, and visibly show ingame someones main or ascended ID that is linked with the account.

But as the situation stands, Jason has designed the game for the person that wants to find out the link between IDs they have to conduct a God Quest. So posting the links between accounts on the forum for all to see should be considered as stat posting and is against the forum rules.

@Jack, you say why should these lists be held by only the elite and powerful. Well clearly you do not know how the God Questing works, because if you did then you'd know that you don't have to be elite or powerful. All you need to have is a lot of time and patience. You don't need to be elite and powerful to have time and patience.

Jack, you have provided no substantial reason as to why posting links between IDs should NOT be against rules.

These are my reasons as to why it is and should be against rules.

#1: Thanks for understanding and making this more clear for everyone.

#2: So your reasoning for believing IDs should be considered stats is that you have to spy someone to get the info? Really? This is your argument? This is the ONLY reason? What if I or a bunch of people decided to send out nice, polite PMs to everyone ingame, asking for them to provide their ascended ID??? Not everyone would reply or provide the info of-course, but many others would! And certainly enough to create a substantial list!!! So there, no god-questing needed. Are they still considered 'stats' then? No-one had to god-quest or spy once, what what would be the problem then? If someone gathered the IDs that way why wouldn't they be allowed to post them as a list then???

#3: Well, I think I HAVE posted good reasons, but even if I hadn't, The ONUS is on YOU to provide reasons why it SHOULDN'T be allowed! Not the other way around, that's flawed logic buddy!

[Drought]

#2: So your reasoning for believing IDs should be considered stats is that you have to spy someone to get the info? Really? This is your argument? This is the ONLY reason? What if I or a bunch of people decided to send out nice, polite PMs to everyone ingame, asking for them to provide their ascended ID??? Not everyone would reply or provide the info of-course, but many others would! And certainly enough to create a substantial list!!! So there, no god-questing needed. Are they still considered 'stats' then? No-one had to god-quest or spy once, what what would be the problem then? If someone gathered the IDs that way why wouldn't they be allowed to post them as a list then???

I will give you 1T if you even get 100 IDs that way

No, hardly anyone would give their ID if they know of the intentions you have with them
Yes, even then they are still stats.
Stats are statistics, based on data. In this case, data possibly derrived from performing covert actions.
Also, I believe it was already determined that it was considered statistics as by the standards of this forum.

I would consider any further persueing of this nonsense as a waste of time.

[RepliMagni]

I didn't realise this was a democracy? Rules are up for voting now....?

[Guild]

broker me 5 tril and ill give you my one

lol problem solved

(ps its not the dde one )

[Juliette]

I didn't realise this was a democracy? Rules are up for voting now....?

No.

[Clarkey]

#1: Thanks for understanding and making this more clear for everyone.

#2: So your reasoning for believing IDs should be considered stats is that you have to spy someone to get the info? Really? This is your argument? This is the ONLY reason? What if I or a bunch of people decided to send out nice, polite PMs to everyone ingame, asking for them to provide their ascended ID??? Not everyone would reply or provide the info of-course, but many others would! And certainly enough to create a substantial list!!! So there, no god-questing needed. Are they still considered 'stats' then? No-one had to god-quest or spy once, what what would be the problem then? If someone gathered the IDs that way why wouldn't they be allowed to post them as a list then???

#3: Well, I think I HAVE posted good reasons, but even if I hadn't, The ONUS is on YOU to provide reasons why it SHOULDN'T be allowed! Not the other way around, that's flawed logic buddy!

Jack, you can have a list on the forums linking main and ascended IDs. No-one is stopping you from having this. However, what the rules are stopping you from doing is posting the list yourself. Now, what you can do is create a thread giving the option for people to post their own IDs in the thread. People can post their own account stats on the forum if they want, for example they do that in the market section. What people can't do is post other people's stats.

So, you do have the ability to have everyone's ID links on this forum if they are willing to post it themselves. You may not get a full list but you'd get a partial list. Although I doubt you'd be happy with that because obviously those that are willing clearly wouldn't care who knows their ID and those that don't post it would likely be the one's you'd want to know their ID.

I'll tell you what, why don't you start a thread for people to post their main and ascended ID. You could start the thread by posting your own Main and Ascended ID to start the ball rolling. Oh, or would that ruin your "hiding" behind the name Jack? Hmm.

[Jack_]

#1: Thanks for understanding and making this more clear for everyone.

#2: So your reasoning for believing IDs should be considered stats is that you have to spy someone to get the info? Really? This is your argument? This is the ONLY reason? What if I or a bunch of people decided to send out nice, polite PMs to everyone ingame, asking for them to provide their ascended ID??? Not everyone would reply or provide the info of-course, but many others would! And certainly enough to create a substantial list!!! So there, no god-questing needed. Are they still considered 'stats' then? No-one had to god-quest or spy once, what what would be the problem then? If someone gathered the IDs that way why wouldn't they be allowed to post them as a list then???

#3: Well, I think I HAVE posted good reasons, but even if I hadn't, The ONUS is on YOU to provide reasons why it SHOULDN'T be allowed! Not the other way around, that's flawed logic buddy!

Jack, you can have a list on the forums linking main and ascended IDs. No-one is stopping you from having this. However, what the rules are stopping you from doing is posting the list yourself. Now, what you can do is create a thread giving the option for people to post their own IDs in the thread. People can post their own account stats on the forum if they want, for example they do that in the market section. What people can't do is post other people's stats.

So, you do have the ability to have everyone's ID links on this forum if they are willing to post it themselves. You may not get a full list but you'd get a partial list. Although I doubt you'd be happy with that because obviously those that are willing clearly wouldn't care who knows their ID and those that don't post it would likely be the one's you'd want to know their ID.

I'll tell you what, why don't you start a thread for people to post their main and ascended ID. You could start the thread by posting your own Main and Ascended ID to start the ball rolling. Oh, or would that ruin your "hiding" behind the name Jack? Hmm.

Oh, give me a friggin' break! I can have list, I can't have a list, I can have a list but only under these conditions. Could you make things any more figgin' complicated and screwed up?
Now making such a thread as you suggested would be a waste of time, it wouldn't even get us a list of ID pairs, it'd get us a list of posts/comments that wouldn't be helpful to bloody anybody!
BTW, this alias I'm using, 'Jack' is just a forum alias, not a game account with an ascended account and IDs (Why would you think it was? Are you drunk?)
And can you really blame me for hiding behind this alias? What do you think would happen to me ingame if the powerful players knew who I was and what I was trying to do? I'd have to be pretty stupid NOT to remain hidden!

I think the choice here is really simple:
either we have a complete list of ID pairs here on the forum for ALL to see.
OR
we have secret ID lists hidden and shared by the more powerful and connected players who prefer to hoard their knowledge and information out of self-interest.

The choice seems like a no-brainer to me. (but come to think of it, so many on this forum are just that; no-brainers!)

[Clarkey]

Oh, give me a friggin' break! I can have list, I can't have a list, I can have a list but only under these conditions. Could you make things any more figgin' complicated and screwed up?

There is nothing complicated or screwed up about it. You are just having a hissy-fit because you are clearly losing this battle.

Now making such a thread as you suggested would be a waste of time, it wouldn't even get us a list of ID pairs, it'd get us a list of posts/comments that wouldn't be helpful to bloody anybody!
BTW, this alias I'm using, 'Jack' is just a forum alias, not a game account with an ascended account and IDs (Why would you think it was? Are you drunk?)
And can you really blame me for hiding behind this alias? What do you think would happen to me ingame if the powerful players knew who I was and what I was trying to do? I'd have to be pretty stupid NOT to remain hidden!

The fact is mr Jack, that not everyone that plays the game wants their ascended ID to be known. It makes it more interesting that way.

What you are doing on the forum is exactly the same. You do not want your true identity to be known. Your true identity has a main and ascended account. If your true identity was to be known then there may be people ingame that would act on that.

So answer me this, what is the difference between people not wanting others to post the link between their main and ascended accounts, and you not wanting people to know your true identity and therefore revealing who you are ingame? What is the difference and how do you feel that you are above the rest to expect people to be allowed to reveal ingame ID links when you are too damn scared to reveal yourself to everyone?

I think this argument is now over, because you are too hypocritical to form a strong case against this.

[The Doctor]

Jack, read the stat posting rule. It specifies that you can not post another users stats, but you can post your own. Clarkeys suggestion is based off this. Not complicated at all.