Blue One

[SVaRuN]

Those are the issues I wanted to change back than. Wars should be won, there should be a clear winner and I still don't see a problem making it so, in fact it is quite easy. In that way wars would have been in general much shorter however they would also be risky. Meaning war is not profit but rather in general a hazard and should be avoided if not for some special reasons.

That is how it is in real life and that is how it should be in SGW. Right now people war over stupid things, why? Because they can... simple as that, even someone who is far weaker and is stubborn enough can stand his ground. But not all people are warmongers. In fact majority is not and will onyl stand for things they really believe in and when such a person comes across one who is just pure destruction and nothing else, it can very well happen that he destroys his fun for playing the game.

This current system of warring and everything connected with it, is atm killing this game. There is less and less people playing this game. Why? Because what keeps people together is community, talking with people not clicking in game. If you were to click in game and no one would be there to write you a private message saying please stop or whatever, there would be no fun at all.

Diplomacy while still existent is more than not forgotten and with diplomacy there comes talk, conspiracies, friendships and much more what is the true gist of this game.



Now this brings me to the reason stated above. Sure original TL as the TL now is were powerful. But the thing binding us to this game was pure friendship. We met in life. Green One (Thamuz) and me are real life friends and we live in different countries. We help each other we invite each other over and talk whenever we can about whatever the current issue in life is...
And the same goes with eXtremer, Blahh, Killy, _Dragon_, Hairman, Mato, Satyricon...

We are all real life friends, most of us met each other through this game. I am not saying you have to establish that sort of connection.


What I am saying that true power and soul of this game are people and relationship between them. People who RPG, who have characters behind them, perhaps long history and acomplishment. This is a fantasy world and just a game, but behind all of that there are people.
I came back to check on things and don't like what I am seeing.

I will do whatever is in my power to try and help out restore what once was, but since this is a community it takes community as a whole to work together. Only WE can make it better through words as also actions...

[Raven]

Those are the issues I wanted to change back than. Wars should be won, there should be a clear winner and I still don't see a problem making it so, in fact it is quite easy. In that way wars would have been in general much shorter however they would also be risky. Meaning war is not profit but rather in general a hazard and should be avoided if not for some special reasons.

That is how it is in real life and that is how it should be in SGW. Right now people war over stupid things, why? Because they can... simple as that, even someone who is far weaker and is stubborn enough can stand his ground. But not all people are warmongers. In fact majority is not and will onyl stand for things they really believe in and when such a person comes across one who is just pure destruction and nothing else, it can very well happen that he destroys his fun for playing the game.

This current system of warring and everything connected with it, is atm killing this game. There is less and less people playing this game. Why? Because what keeps people together is community, talking with people not clicking in game. If you were to click in game and no one would be there to write you a private message saying please stop or whatever, there would be no fun at all.

Diplomacy while still existent is more than not forgotten and with diplomacy there comes talk, conspiracies, friendships and much more what is the true gist of this game.



Now this brings me to the reason stated above. Sure original TL as the TL now is were powerful. But the thing binding us to this game was pure friendship. We met in life. Green One (Thamuz) and me are real life friends and we live in different countries. We help each other we invite each other over and talk whenever we can about whatever the current issue in life is...
And the same goes with eXtremer, Blahh, Killy, _Dragon_, Hairman, Mato, Satyricon...

We are all real life friends, most of us met each other through this game. I am not saying you have to establish that sort of connection.


What I am saying that true power and soul of this game are people and relationship between them. People who RPG, who have characters behind them, perhaps long history and acomplishment. This is a fantasy world and just a game, but behind all of that there are people.
I came back to check on things and don't like what I am seeing.

I will do whatever is in my power to try and help out restore what once was, but since this is a community it takes community as a whole to work together. Only WE can make it better through words as also actions...

Ye, pretty much sums it up. It only got worse since we have left the game. UU's and naq are so much more expendable.

Jason needs to look at his game and make UU/Naq not so expendable anymore. Wars will be won on pure play. Effort and dedication should be the way to win wars.
From some vieuws i have heard that it is accepted the game is running on its last legs, wich would be a real shame.

[Lithium]

nice to see some oldies back

but has to say that smth attracted me hahahah ETL + Jason , omg since the first of the big wars to 2012 the same relation .... there should be a Dislocure of SGW just to know how much Jason ripped of ETL or is it the same person????

[Kjarkur]

Hopefully it's just not to late.

All attempts to change the war system have been a complete and utter failure.

Problem is members are getting less and less interested in working towards a solution. We've been trying for so long.

If anyone can do increase our chances, it's you two.

Nobody cares about being massed anymore. Wars are no longer risky or expensive.

-KJ

[Juliette]

All attempts to change the war system have been a complete and utter failure.

Among various other reasons, because of chicken little's hiding out in 4-and-less-man alliances. (Which will soon no longer be an option as "omg let's hide from Bloodwar"-trick.)

Problem is members are getting less and less interested in working towards a solution. We've been trying for so long.

No, solutions were provided, and people looked for 'workarounds' because their wars would (wait for it..) become too expensive.

If everyone just stuck with their alliance you would see how quickly people look for a peaceful solution to their problem instead of hiding out the duration of their war. Bloodwars are insanely expensive if your opponent is as committed as you are. *grin* Sure, you can refuel easily by raiding, but that will only hold for a few bloodwars; billions of UU (all types of units..) killed per bloodwar is not as easily replaced as the occasional slow-burn massing. (Prices per UU go up, more people go raiding, actual 'raid-only' playstyles become viable again, etcetera.)

If you hide in some random mini-alliance, do not **Filtered** about wars being too cheap. It is you who is too cheap to war.

[Kjarkur]

It wont change anything.

The enemy just stops fighting.

You know as well as I do, that there is a problem with bloodwar that was unexpected. Looked great on paper though.

Not to mention bloodwar is brand new updated, it might still be too late for this game. I do hope it isn't though.

-KJ

[Lithium]

All attempts to change the war system have been a complete and utter failure.

Among various other reasons, because of chicken little's hiding out in 4-and-less-man alliances. (Which will soon no longer be an option as "omg let's hide from Bloodwar"-trick.)

Problem is members are getting less and less interested in working towards a solution. We've been trying for so long.

No, solutions were provided, and people looked for 'workarounds' because their wars would (wait for it..) become too expensive.

If everyone just stuck with their alliance you would see how quickly people look for a peaceful solution to their problem instead of hiding out the duration of their war. Bloodwars are insanely expensive if your opponent is as committed as you are. *grin* Sure, you can refuel easily by raiding, but that will only hold for a few bloodwars; billions of UU (all types of units..) killed per bloodwar is not as easily replaced as the occasional slow-burn massing. (Prices per UU go up, more people go raiding, actual 'raid-only' playstyles become viable again, etcetera.)

If you hide in some random mini-alliance, do not **Filtered** about wars being too cheap. It is you who is too cheap to war.

theres a simple solution that J dont like to implement.

boot out all inactives or set autovacin no logins in 2 weeks.

[xDaku]

You can't add in game mechanics that force people to fight. The bloodwar system works, it's just being avoided because both sides have decided to care more about their pride than the gameplay. Most don't even know the reason for the war other than "we don't like them".

If the other alliance isn't fighting...you've gotten your objective in a war. Try it, stay in an alliance, mass the other, initiate bloodwar, and just mass.

Also, I think the gameplay is fine as it is. I think the problem is more on the side of people being bored of interacting with the same people over and over again. MH, DDE, OE, FS, TAF, Ricos are the only real ingame active alliances left and we've gone after each other a dozen times. Even roleplay I doubt can change that.

Also, with how easy it is to get resources by means outside the actual game, it's become too easy.

[Raven]

All attempts to change the war system have been a complete and utter failure.

Among various other reasons, because of chicken little's hiding out in 4-and-less-man alliances. (Which will soon no longer be an option as "omg let's hide from Bloodwar"-trick.)

Problem is members are getting less and less interested in working towards a solution. We've been trying for so long.

No, solutions were provided, and people looked for 'workarounds' because their wars would (wait for it..) become too expensive.

If everyone just stuck with their alliance you would see how quickly people look for a peaceful solution to their problem instead of hiding out the duration of their war. Bloodwars are insanely expensive if your opponent is as committed as you are. *grin* Sure, you can refuel easily by raiding, but that will only hold for a few bloodwars; billions of UU (all types of units..) killed per bloodwar is not as easily replaced as the occasional slow-burn massing. (Prices per UU go up, more people go raiding, actual 'raid-only' playstyles become viable again, etcetera.)

If you hide in some random mini-alliance, do not **Filtered** about wars being too cheap. It is you who is too cheap to war.

There are quite some issues with bloodwar, i don't understand Jason doesn't share these updates with real players, who have been in wars. Ive been gone for a while but i could point out some flaws in the system easily.
Like Kjarkur said, on paper it looks alright. But in real people already found ways around it.

theres a simple solution that J dont like to implement.

boot out all inactives or set autovacin no logins in 2 weeks.

This is really not a good idea, inactives are the farms of many people. They belong to this game.

[Juliette]

How can you possibly point out flaws in something you have not even experienced. Everyone hides from it, there have been 0 bloodwars since the update came out over a month ago; exactly as xDaku says, because people choose 'pride' over actual war. As for what that pride is worth if not backed up by actual wars, neh.. remains a question for later.
Sure, you can come up with a few theoretical objections, but that is easy.. as for the 'great workaround', sticking with minority alliances is hardly a true workaround. That reminds me of the time people got themselves autobanned and unbanned to get free PPT. Now that was a workaround.

As for not sharing with 'real players' (lol, what an absolutely ridiculous and insulting concept), Jason is freely available at the admin meetings and through e-mail should the regular channels not provide satisfactory results. Instead of **Filtered** about how little is done, post your comments in the BloodWar thread. That thread was there for weeks without anyone contributing anything, because no one tested it in Dev. Really, nothing short of cutting your own fingers to prove how sharp the knife is going to make an impression.

*grin* The point regarding interacting with the same people over and over again I get, by the way. War is fun, because you get to know people you do not usually hang with.. but yes, limited actively warring alliances = limited interaction.

[R8]

TL has always been dominant lol. Last year's war for example, being around them, most of them fought DDE/mH with naq they had farmed during peace time and did better than anyone else had done before that war for years. At the time, DDE/mH were the biggest spenders in the game except for ETL - not to take anything away from them, it was an awesome war cause both sides fought non stop, but being able to compete with that level of spending with just farming is a feat to be admired.

Robe and in some ways FM (trading well) were the only real spenders. You had a ton of others (R8, couzens, thamuz, tom - top 4) farming/raiding their way and completely dominating for years. There's no other alliance that has done as well as them with that level of ingame ability in all areas. Those 4 weren't only the best farmers in the game, they were some of the (if not the best) massers too.

Bring in FM, Ron (who was insanely under rated for how damn good he was) and you had the best team you can possibly form to play "the good guys".

If Robe ever comes back, TL will be unstoppable. Just because they're bored now doesn't mean they're gone. Those players are the same as last year and a few years before. People underestimate what Robe was to TL.

P.S. KJ should be a good enough example of a current player to come from that background that dominates.

I agree with this, Ron was awesome. alongside da vinci I never got the pony thing though

Also, I think the gameplay is fine as it is. I think the problem is more on the side of people being bored of interacting with the same people over and over again. MH, DDE, OE, FS, TAF, Ricos are the only real ingame active alliances left and we've gone after each other a dozen times. Even roleplay I doubt can change that.

Also, with how easy it is to get resources by means outside the actual game, it's become too easy.

Yes defiently. there is no fear, no spark no more of that real desire and feeling to war the same people as youve kinda been there doen that.

[Raven]

I get what you are saying and why you are saying it. But i feel like walking against a wall sometimes.

How can you possibly point out flaws in something you have not even experienced. Everyone hides from it, there have been 0 bloodwars since the update came out over a month ago; exactly as xDaku says, because people choose 'pride' over actual war. As for what that pride is worth if not backed up by actual wars, neh.. remains a question for later.
Sure, you can come up with a few theoretical objections, but that is easy.. as for the 'great workaround', sticking with minority alliances is hardly a true workaround. That reminds me of the time people got themselves autobanned and unbanned to get free PPT. Now that was a workaround.

Why would i need to experience it before pointing out flaws? I'm pointing out that there are flaws to the system explained to us. You could say there is more to it but hey...
Let me tell you what i think about it.

- Miner kills are to hard, 4-1 is making it pretty much undesirable, after the first real lifers are gone its over. None will train miners to get lifers to kill miners. Silly. (Unless maybe overwhelming force)
- Unless the battlefield is equal (And even then) nobody is ever gonna push themselves in bloodwar, this is actually preventing smaller alliance from retaliating since it would be outright stupid to waste your account.
- The state bloodwar pushes you in is very undesirable to anyone. The limit on buying AT for example is blocking warfare. You can't farm, raid, trade. I don't think anyone actually wants to do this, so people just refrain from pushing to bloodwar.

Just a few examples

As for not sharing with 'real players' (lol, what an absolutely ridiculous and insulting concept), Jason is freely available at the admin meetings and through e-mail should the regular channels not provide satisfactory results. Instead of **Filtered** about how little is done, post your comments in the BloodWar thread. That thread was there for weeks without anyone contributing anything, because no one tested it in Dev. Really, nothing short of cutting your own fingers to prove how sharp the knife is going to make an impression.

It might be insulting, but certainly not ridiculous. I have been playing this game long enough to know how Jason handles this game. Jason is not freely available, he's there to talk to everyone. To actually get into a decent conversation with him requires alot of patience, not to mention he has the memory of a sieve.
In short he's talking to dozens of people at the same time, in theory you could bug him during the meets, but in reality Jason just does pretty much how he thinks it will go best.
The last part about cutting my own fingers, i have tried for a long time with several TL members to get ideas through to him. A beta for a game with maybe 200 active players, where 80% of them knows how it works with suggestions you put on these forums (Ignored). You would be really optimistic to think anyone will try the beta, considering it requires quite a few active members over a long period of time to even test something like bloodwar.

He should have put a dozen players who know this game and all it's aspects and talk with them about any ideas he has. Not saying that's a good idea right now, but back then it would have been the way to go.

[Lithium]

does Jason play????? this says all.

the bloody war its a locking system a way too much exaggerated and pride has nothing to do with it.

we have seen war of prides and we saw how some players went from 350m to 4 mil in few days (before the killing updates)

2 teams x10 can fight a bloody war up to using only their daily up/income and fight over 1b def.

personally i ve seen farms as a problem because they generate a huge % of resources vs the active players (the daily ones)

[xDaku]

Raven, if you go into bloodwar without the resources then ofcourse you should be punished for it. That's not a flaw, it's strategic. It requires people to play carefully outside of bloodwar and only get aggressive when they can afford to.

And lith, go into blood war and that 350m to 4m drop can happen too. Most wars tend to be faster at the start you know.

And as for real players, bloodwar was proposed and discussed with jason by some of the best massers in the game. So...yea.

[Lithium]

Raven, if you go into bloodwar without the resources then ofcourse you should be punished for it. That's not a flaw, it's strategic. It requires people to play carefully outside of bloodwar and only get aggressive when they can afford to.

And lith, go into blood war and that 350m to 4m drop can happen too. Most wars tend to be faster at the start you know.

And as for real players, bloodwar was proposed and discussed with jason by some of the best massers in the game. So...yea.

and if u put pride in a fight then even wit 4 mil those ppl i know can fight for long time.