Proposed ban on assault weapons by Obama

[[KMA]Avenger]

Doesn't change the fact that guns make you more paranoid and normal citizens do not require assault riffle's. (Nobody said anything about boarder agents, of course they should be heavily armed)

A normal citizen should not have the power to execute another citizen.

Does not change the fact that you need strict laws on gun-ownership. Cause 40 % of the guns used in murders are acquired illegally.


-KJ

Can i ask you a hypothetical question? I'll assume yes...


What if the govt wanted to get rid of cash and go to a total cashless monetary system but they know they couldn't do it because the people want cash. so they sit around and come up with a plan to cyber-attack all the major banks and tell everyone all their money has been taken and they don't know who did it. they then give us the solution they had wanted from the start. the politicians start rallying the people about the evils of cash and that if we give them total control of the money supply they can fix the problem, and you are 1 of those who support the govt in this.
Jump forward a few years and now people see that going totally cashless was not a good idea because the govt has turned off allot peoples money for daring to speak bad about the govt, or simply wanting more freedom. what if it then came out the govt was behind the whole thing from the start...how would you feel?


Go look up the definition of "democide" and have a look at the numbers. then come and tell me that disarming the people and leaving the govt with its guns is a good idea.


Oh and while your at it, have a look at how many mass killings have been committed by mentally unstable people who were made mentally unstable by psychiatric drugs. and your answer is to disarm people?! you are more dangerous than a mass murderer. at least if i have a gun i can defend myself from a mass murderer. but you people want to disarm everyone thereby making everyone victims to mass murderers and govts.


Edit.

In Israel, they had a terrorist attack on a school a few years back where a bunch of children and teachers died. their answer was to arm all the teachers. since then they haven't had a single attack on a school.
Before you say that's not true:

Picture of an armed Israeli school teacher.

[Kjarkur]

Israel is at war with it's 'neighbour' I'd hardly compare the situation with Mexico to that. Even so, it's not as if the entire United stated have boarders with it.

Pardon my bad English as it's not my native language... but if you're trying to insult me there you wont succeed.

You think the US is the only nation that have people on drugs?

At least here and in many other nations, the psychopaths aren't armed.

I still stand by what I say, you, nor anyone as a normal citizen should have the power to take life. No matter how afraid of the government you are. I'm hearing what your saying and while I completely understand, I do disagree.

A 18 year old boy from my country was shot in the United Stated couple of months ago. The reason? Wrong place at the wrong time. A gun did not safe him. In fact it couldn't have. They usually don't when the attack is unprovoked and you have no warning of the attack.

What next ? You all want weapons of mass destruction in every house, just cause you don't trust someone else to fire them for you? Perhaps if the government fails ? Missile defense system as well I assume? And next time you bother the wrong person they press one button and blow up your house.
A bit over-the-top but you catch my drift.


Nobody is saying a normal haunting rifle shouldn't be allowed in your house to protect yourself from an attack. But M16's etc. Please.

You act as if the United States is the only nation with problems, you only see the solution in more guns, fighting fire with fire. Violence with violence. You automatically assume everything other nations do has failed, even though statistics clearly prove otherwise.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Firstly, no i am not trying to insult you, i have no reason to do so

2ndly, what statistics are you referring to? you didn't provide any.

3rdly, the FBI's own annual report from the past 6 years at least (6 years because i couldn't be bothered to look back any further), shows that as gun sales have increased acts of violence and gun crime have decreased.

Will gun crime be eradicated if there is a ban on guns? no it won't we have mass shootings in the UK as well, granted no where near as much as the US, but then again we have FAAAAR more violent crimes committed per 100 thousand people than the US. these are facts.

Some links for you:

http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/psych-meds-l ... shootings/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... veals.html

[Jack]

KJ, you keep saying we ignore the statistics. But fact of the matter is, you're the one ignoring them.

So KJ, respond to this: assault rifles haven't been used in a single mass killing since the national guard massacred a bunch of black kids. But you want them banned? You expect us to trust the government even after that?

There is no such thing as an assault weapon. They don't exist. So you want to ban imaginary weapons?

Rifles are almost never used in crime, but are used all the time in home defense. Statistics have shown this. So you want to ban the must popular and effective home defense weapon because of one shooting?

Crime is on a downward trend in America. Murders are down by over 4k just a couple years ago. Gun ownership has also rocketed.

So then how is it that guns are a horrible pandemic, if violent crime is shrinking?

[Kjarkur]

Can't you read my posts? I said M16's and other automatic military grade machine-guns etc shouldn't be allowed. You don't have to point out if I use the in-correct terms for each specific gun. You catch my drift.

I never said anything about banning the most popular gun... I specifically said "should be allowed perhaps only at one's home" instead of for example machine-guns, which psychopaths can use to slaughter tens of people in seconds.
I'd say pistols or uzi's would be pose a much bigger threat then big rifle's, the one's youd use to protect your home or in deer haunting etc.

I said... more strict guns laws to begin with - don't put words in my mouth.

Assault weapons is a term we use, it's basically weapons designed to shoot lots of rounds in as little time as possible.
For example:


But this is not a discussion for technical terms or difference between languages.

Statistics? I showed you statistics of country's with strict gun laws having 0 murder rate.

You know what that means?

Not. A. Single. Person. Was. Killed.

But if everyone in said nation had a gun each time they went a bit crazy or pissed off. I'm sure it wouldn't be 0.

I don't understand why more strict laws wouldn't do ya good. For example, people with mental problems should not be allowed to get guns. There are many reports of people, who are far from mentally stable buying guns in US. It's way too easy.

I never said you have to remove all guns right away. But more strict laws are a step in the right direction.

And don't even try and tell me that due to more guns your crime rate goes down. The more you arm the public... the more you arm the criminals. And you still have a higher crime rate then Russia.

In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole).

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world (743 per 100,000 population), Russia has the second highest rate (577 per 100,000),

I simply fail to see how everyone with the power to shoot one another, is somehow 'protection' - I would not feel safe, knowing all my neighbours could kill me with a push of a button.

[Rudy Peña]

In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole).

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world (743 per 100,000 population), Russia has the second highest rate (577 per 100,000),

I simply fail to see how everyone with the power to shoot one another, is somehow 'protection' - I would not feel safe, knowing all my neighbours could kill me with a push of a button.

The reason why the US has so many people in prison is mainly due to non violence crimes such as drugs and theft of not so high vaule items.
Over or nearly half of the prisons are with people who have been caught with drugs.

So before you start going on about how the US has one of the highest incarceration populations in the world and applying it to this debate, please look up what reasons most people are in for. As you will find out most are non violent crimes.

Taken from the same site you quoted. Looks like you didnt read this part.......

Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.

http://www.criminaljusticeusa.com/blog/ ... on-system/

The U.S. has an incarceration rate of 743 per 100,000 people (2009)

That’s the highest rate in the world, an astonishing fact that can’t be repeated enough. However, it should be noted that crime in the U.S. in general has decreased over the last 20 years. For example, from 1980 to 2009, the murder rate decreased from 10.2 per 10,000 inhabitants to 5.0 in 2009; the violent crime rate decreased from 596.6 per 10,000 inhabitants to 429.4; and the robbery rate decreased from 251.1 per 10,000 inhabitants to 133. Now, whether or not the improvements are a result of harsher punishment has yet to be proven. For comparison, from 1925 to 1975, the crime rate stayed at about 110 per 100,000 people, excluding those kept in state and local jails

he U.S. houses more inmates than the top 35 European countries combined (2010)

Europe, which has a denser population than the U.S., is well-below the U.S. when it comes to incarceration rates. In England and Wales, for example, 139 people are imprisoned per 10,000, one of the highest rates in Western Europe. Harsher sentencing in recent years is blamed for the rise in prison population in the U.K. Nevertheless, it pales in comparison to America’s rate; only Easter Europe’s Belarus comes close, with a rate of 385 people imprisoned per 10,000.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=43

n 2009 —

An offender was armed with a gun, knife, or other object used as a weapon in an estimated 22% of all incidents of violent crime.
Offenders used firearms to commit 8% of violent crime incidents in 2009.
Robberies (47%) were the most likely crime to involve an armed offender.
Firearms (28%) were the most common weapons used in robberies.
Most rapes and assaults did not involve the use of a weapon.
From 1993-1997, of serious nonfatal violent victimizations, 28% were committed with a firearm, 4% were committed with a firearm and resulted in injury, and less than 1% resulted in gunshot wounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ation_rate

Under Causes

A major contributor to the high incarceration rates is the length of the prison sentences in the United States. One of the criticisms of the United States system is that it has much longer sentences than any other part of the world. The typical mandatory sentence for a first-time drug offense in federal court is five or ten years, compared to other developed countries around the world where a first time offense would warrant at most 6 months in jail.[24] Mandatory sentencing prohibits judges from using their discretion and forces them to place longer sentences on nonviolent offenses than they normally would do.

Even though there are other countries that commit more inmates to prison annually, the fact that the United States keeps their prisoners longer causes the total rate to become higher. To give an example, the average burglary sentence in the United States is 16 months, compared to 5 months in Canada and 7 months in England.[19] Looking at reasons for imprisonment will further clarify why the incarceration rate and length of sentences are so high. The practice of imposing longer prison sentences on repeat offenders is common in many countries but the three strike laws in the U.S. with mandatory 25 year imprisonment — implemented in many states in the 1990s — is very extreme compared to countries in Europe.

Another contributing factor to United States' spike in the number of prisoners is the War on Drugs, formally initiated by Richard Nixon with the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 and avidly pursued by Ronald Reagan.[25] Incarceration for drug offenses has increased 12-fold from 40,000 in 1981 to nearly 500,000 by 2010, accounting for two-thirds of the rise in the federal inmate population since 1985.[26]

[Jack]

KJ, what Rudy said about the prison pop.

As for uzis and that LMG you posted a photo of. Both are already illegal. All fully automatic weapons are illegal.

Your explanation of assault weapon is ridiculous. You can fire a revolver faster than you can fire many semi automatic pistols and rifles. So I guess revolvers are assault weapons now too, huh?

You can fire a revolver as quickly as you can pull the trigger. With a semi automatic, you have to wait for the action to recycle.

You want it to be illegal to carry guns? It was illegal to carry a gun into a school, it was illegal for Adam Lanza to have a gun, it was illegal to fire said gun inside city limits, it was illegal to fire at people, it was illegal to shoot people, it was illegal to kill people. But none of this stopped Sandy Hook. So how will another meaningless law change anything?

[[KMA]Avenger]

@KJ, in the UK we have a near total gun ban (farmers and those without criminal records can apply for gun licenses for shooting game etc), but what good did that do Thomas Hamilton's victims in Dunblane?

Dunblane school massacre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

[Kjarkur]

KJ, what Rudy said about the prison pop.

As for uzis and that LMG you posted a photo of. Both are already illegal. All fully automatic weapons are illegal.

Your explanation of assault weapon is ridiculous. You can fire a revolver faster than you can fire many semi automatic pistols and rifles. So I guess revolvers are assault weapons now too, huh?

You can fire a revolver as quickly as you can pull the trigger. With a semi automatic, you have to wait for the action to recycle.

You want it to be illegal to carry guns? It was illegal to carry a gun into a school, it was illegal for Adam Lanza to have a gun, it was illegal to fire said gun inside city limits, it was illegal to fire at people, it was illegal to shoot people, it was illegal to kill people. But none of this stopped Sandy Hook. So how will another meaningless law change anything?

You keep arguing over technical terms of the guns but avoid what I'm saying... We who live happily, and safe, without guns and don't speak English as a native language(and there is no gun-chapter in our text-books at school) might not use the correct 'technical term' of each weapon. But you'd have to be a fool not to realize what my point is.

More guns wont help the situation at all.

You'll only end up with more tragedy and more psychopaths shooting at you.

[doc holliday]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
Read that

[lord hell down]

OK I am going to give MY opinion on this subject. I am born and raised biker from Texas and the fact is it is my right as a free American to bare arms it is in our laws I have my concealed hand gun license and carry everyday for the simple reason guns are in the hands of sychocotic people and criminals the criminals don't NY the guns legally they buy illegal guns brought in by smugglers from other countries so the government is going to take my guns and then what my knives too LOL OVER my DEAD body my house was broke into three yts ago by 3 gang members one shot my wife luckily only in the leg when I came from the bed room I shot the punk in the shoulder as he was aiming at my the9 ye old son then I went to my office were one other punk was trying to pull money safe out the floor and the other one was punching my 5 yr old daughter In the face I held them at gun point till the cops showed up and arrested them now if I couldn't have my caliber pistol my family might all be dead. All the guns used by the punk gang bangers we traced to Mexican cartels and were AK 47's .my point the government needs to work on.

[lord hell down]

What the government needs to work on is securing are borders and the sale of illegal guns and gun smugglers I know own a AR 15 is it for hunting hell no its for the next thug who enters my home and threatens my family.also I have seen civilians should not have the right to take someones life I disagree if you are trying to harm me or family thenwho gave the criminal the right to harm us? So I do believe we have that right.this is how America is I am not saying any other country should be this way but this is how we are and will stay the reason the right to bare arms is in the U.S. constitution was so government could not take the country from the people and be run by greedy power hungry politicians like Obama so that OS my say on all this if you want to debate this it will be welcomed

Lord hell down

[lord hell down]

Doc holiday that is a great example thank you

[[KMA]Avenger]

KJ, what Rudy said about the prison pop.

As for uzis and that LMG you posted a photo of. Both are already illegal. All fully automatic weapons are illegal.

Your explanation of assault weapon is ridiculous. You can fire a revolver faster than you can fire many semi automatic pistols and rifles. So I guess revolvers are assault weapons now too, huh?

You can fire a revolver as quickly as you can pull the trigger. With a semi automatic, you have to wait for the action to recycle.

You want it to be illegal to carry guns? It was illegal to carry a gun into a school, it was illegal for Adam Lanza to have a gun, it was illegal to fire said gun inside city limits, it was illegal to fire at people, it was illegal to shoot people, it was illegal to kill people. But none of this stopped Sandy Hook. So how will another meaningless law change anything?

You keep arguing over technical terms of the guns but avoid what I'm saying... We who live happily, and safe, without guns and don't speak English as a native language(and there is no gun-chapter in our text-books at school) might not use the correct 'technical term' of each weapon. But you'd have to be a fool not to realize what my point is.

More guns wont help the situation at all.

You'll only end up with more tragedy and more psychopaths shooting at you.

No reply to me eh?

[Jack]

KJ, I've already addressed your supposition about more guns = more violence. It's incorrect, proven by years of declining violence and increasing gun ownership. If I can't suggest the two are correlated, then must admit that crime isn't influence by gun ownership.

The technical terms are extremely important. It's not like calling RAM memory or saying gee bee instead of gigabyte. It's like calling an LCD screen a plasma screen, calling for the banning of plasma screens inspite of them already being banned.

You need to know the terms and the laws, the weapons you have described saying they should be illegal are already illegal.