Discussion on Cheating [merged]

[S1eepy]

OK, wonderful, another extremely long post. But thankfully, at least this one isn't just a reworded repeat of your last 10 posts.

Yes, I still think that having an account for the sole purposes of helping another is wrong, and should not be allowed.

When I started in Q, there was x-server trading, and x-server alliance assistance, and that lead players to get their friends to sign up and feed them, to make sure they stayed competitive. Fortunately (for Q) some of these players saw how fun it was here, and became active members of the server.

Thats how I first found Q, came to help out some alliance mates from back in the day (Tekki, Zaphor etc) after they helped me in main, But I found I enjoyed Q way more than main... obviously

Do we go back and ban all these accounts because of a rule we are now trying to implement? No, because that would be silly. Just like you didn't go back and ban every player who had been fed, or used cross server trades in previous Eras once those rules were made.

I asked Haz to amend the feeding rule before this wave started, to include accounts that exist solely for the benefit of others. But it was seen as being too wide a description, and too difficult to enforce. For the same reasons I gave in response to Artys post. Alliance mates, friends etc will (and should be able to) help each other.


Skyfusions IP matching with ytrewq is suspicious - the first piece of new information you have brought to light in over 3 weeks?
But it is fairly old information which makes it difficult to work with, and your sources for it are lacking. Even then, as you have stated, it is evidence against skyfusion and not Hippy. So without more proof of the link between the two, all that could result is punishment for skyfusion. Which is unlikely to appease your raging heart.

[ElgCaress]

People, we are arguing about the proof or lack thereof to establish a link between Hippy and Skyfusion/Selina when Hippy himself already admitted it was his multi. Him giving it to a "friend" recently in my book is completely irreverent.

In my eyes this is not about feeding/helping out his main account anymore. Regardless the time frame of the feeding rule it doesn't matter. Rule #1 has always been there. I have started playing this game in 2009. Back then already I read the rules and understood that it was against the rules to create a second account, for which ever purpose.

On that fact alone he should get some form of punishment and/or ban. One cannot argue that away. Rules applies to everyone, not just a select few. For the Admins not to act on this, in my eyes (and im sure the community as well) they would loose all credibility. They are, afterall, the glue that keeps everything together. Right?

[bebita]

i did not sign petition i didn't even replied to the pm's but ....
PLEASE BAN HIPPY AND SHOW THAT THIS GAME IS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE CLEAN
BAN HIM

[Neimenljivi]

Ahh so for 3 years that account was his feeder account and after 3 years they found out they like Q and started playing it? Please
Like Elg said, Hippy admitted. But hey, keep covering up after his mess.

But I am sure him admitting is an old information as well and therefore not relevant? So every piece of evidence that you don't consider to fall under circumstance and opinions is irrelevant due to being old or some other lame excuse? Good to know.

It'd be way easier if admins just admitted he won't be banned because he spends a lot of money on this game.

Elg - yes they should be the glue, but apparently that glue has already dissolved under the liquid that is money.

~Jack

[S1eepy]

Reading things that aren't actually written, coming up with conspiracy theory's, feeling like the whole world is against you? Sure signs of paranoia.

I never said it was "not relevant", just that because of its age (nearly 4 years!) its difficult to get reliable information from that time. Are there still logs showing matching IPs?
Or do we only have your word, which doesn't have any reference. I know you would expect your word to be trusted 100%, especially over the word of anyone else in the world ever. But thats not usually how things go.

Also, something I missed on first read of your essay;
changing IPs regularly means diddly squat. A lot of ISPs give dynamic IPs, which are updated everytime you reset your router, or just on a regular basis, few days or a week. As well as this, using a mobile device to log in would also have differing IP addresses. So that piece of "evidence" you claimed to indicate proxy use, is complete nonsense I'm afraid.
Would be better off finding the actual IP addresses used and doing a reverse search, seeing if they come up as available to hire as proxys. I've have no experience doing anything like that, but seems like it would be possible.

[Caprila]

This topic is called a notice of petition, no ? You've presented your 'evidence', and your signed petition.

It's been reviewed by Admin, just as you wanted. And you have been told, some 7 times so far, the answer is still NO

Your time is yours to waste. But Haz's time is not, and as Game Admin, he has higher priorities than continually typing out responses to the same question. From, largely the same few people.

He's given you his decision, live with it, or don't.

This continual bickering is childish and belongs in a kindergarten playpen.

[Field Marshall]

This topic is called a notice of petition, no ? You've presented your 'evidence', and your signed petition.

It's been reviewed by Admin, just as you wanted. And you have been told, some 7 times so far, the answer is still NO

Your time is yours to waste. But Haz's time is not, and as Game Admin, he has higher priorities than continually typing out responses to the same question. From, largely the same few people.

He's given you his decision, live with it, or don't.

This continual bickering is childish and belongs in a kindergarten playpen.

Shouldn't it be your prerogative to remain neutral in regards to cheaters and multis? As a general mod, this is probably something you should avoid to comment on, until you need to step in on a forum mod basis.

Yes, you may have an opinion but remember, you are also green and not orange.

Just sayin'. I'm sure Haz won't write long replies unless he wants to and has time...he doesn't need you to hold his hand.

Down wit da system.

[S1eepy]

Down wit da system.

Go join the protesters ^^
viewtopic.php?p=2596446#p2596446

I would say it is getting into the territory of general mods, as most of what I read is just reposted spam. Asking for admins decision on things is fine, but the majority of the time, players shouldn't be dealing directly with admin. So this is as good a juncture as any to have the questions directed at a mod - and without Qs mod around (Kikaz) - carprila is the logical choice, as he has been dealing with the same issue in the ombudsman section already.

[Field Marshall]

Down wit da system.

Go join the protesters ^^
viewtopic.php?p=2596446#p2596446

I would say it is getting into the territory of general mods, as most of what I read is just reposted spam. Asking for admins decision on things is fine, but the majority of the time, players shouldn't be dealing directly with admin. So this is as good a juncture as any to have the questions directed at a mod - and without Qs mod around (Kikaz) - carprila is the logical choice, as he has been dealing with the same issue in the ombudsman section already.

Perhaps, but this is a game issue. Not a forum issue. The moderators on this forum serve NO purpose to the running of the game or suspected cheats. Neither should they imitate or propose they do. As an ex-quantum mod, I wouldn't have stepped over that boundary...

Haz can choose to ignore, deliberate or comment if he wishes. So can Caprilla. I was just helping her to choose the right decision. Again, she can choose also to ignore, deliberate or comment if she wishes I bet she does, especially as I've trolled her to do so...

Cap? Where are thee?

[Arty Bang]

Selina (20131) Defending IP Modded
ytrewq (28180) Attacking IP Modded

Selina and Ytrewq are both showing up as N on IP Modded though, I'm not sure if Arty has spoke to Ytrewq yet but Selina didn't really give an explanation she just said she was using a proxy

Selina aka skyfusion aka HippyFool even says he is using a proxy.

Could you please tell me what relation you have to Ytrewq please Selina?

absolutely none. why?

We have era log history from the past few years showing several ip mirrors between you both, thus logging in from the same ip location, with game cops being more active things like this are picked up on so need to be questioned Also if I may ask, it`s recorded both of your ip links change quite often, is there any particular reason for this?
Thanks

I am guessing my proxy changes my IP every day

I see Thanks for the explanation

Then support said this

Had to take some time out for NG and Main.

Let's see then.
Inactive = account that is not logged in, exists solely to be used as a resource by everyone else
Feeder = account that is logged in, primarily used by 1 or 2 'fed' accounts.

• 'feeding rule', violation of which yields the following punishment:
  • - disabled access to feeder (opening it to the entire server, creating an extra inactive / farm)
    - the 'fed' account is banned for 24h (base value) unless extreme profit is made (extreme being > 100*average hit, or if the feeding occurs at a crucial time in the wave (first 2 weeks, last 2 weeks). Feeding in the first 2 and last 2 weeks = 48h ban, feeding in the meantime = 24h ban, extreme profit = 48h or until reset depending on volume compared to average farm hit.)
    - repeat offenders: 3 strike rule, 1st offence: normal ban, 2nd: double ban, 3rd: banned until reset
    - cross-era offenders: bans (and offence count) carry across to next round, but expire after 3 resets

Multi = account that is logged in by an owner of another account.

• '1 account per player rule', violation of which yields the following punishment:
  • - disabled access to secondary account(s) (see above)
    - primary account is banned for 48 hours per multi (counting at the time of discovery) or until reset
    - repeat offenders: 3 strike rule, 1st offence: normal, 2nd: until reset, 3rd: permanently (access disabled, account left as farm - reminder that crime does not pay

Most multis also feed, so there is a crossover area, but as a rule: multi > feeding (i.e. if someone feeds - and would be banned - AND multis, he will receive the punishment befitting a multi, not the feeding.) Since the punishments overlap that should not be a problem.

Therefore Hippy should get a punishment lets say 50% G&R Stripped from the legends and Selina account banned... I think that sounds fair

[Neimenljivi]

S1eepy if we had posted anything that wasn't true, Haz would be the first one to point it out, followed closely by Juliette. You don't trust me, I don't care. But if you trust Haz regarding his decision about Hippy, then you should also trust he'd tell you if we were lying about any evidence. Although, I know, it's hard to trust someone who doesn't ban a cheater
Also Kikaz wasn't the last Q mod, not by far.

FM - you're right. It seems Caprila has a tendency to post irrelevant things in order to steer the topics of course. Or to cover topics up entirely. Just the topics that show something is wrong with the current leadership, of course.

Hey Arty, please come up with evidence before you post something suggesting anything. I mean, do you honestly believe Selina a.k.a. Hippy admitting to have been using proxies (after an extensive research by you and Crixus beforehand) is relevant and counts as evidence? Them admitting counts as your opinion and circumstance, not an evidence. How could you be so naive?

PS: Just a question - will Arty be allowed to stay a Game Cop or will he be axed under some fake excuses like Crixus was, because Arty knows too much about certain cheaters? I am genuinely interested.

~Jack

[Kjarkur]

Shouldn't it be your prerogative to remain neutral in regards to cheaters and multis? As a general mod, this is probably something you should avoid to comment on, until you need to step in on a forum mod basis.

Yes, you may have an opinion but remember, you are also green and not orange.

Just sayin'. I'm sure Haz won't write long replies unless he wants to and has time...he doesn't need you to hold his hand.

Down wit da system.

IMO she has stayed neutral, professional and calm since the start - Neim seams to be on a campaign against the staff.

Haz's time is better spent on actually working on the game instead of arguing on forums against one or two individuals who seam hellbent on harassing the staff.

Bare in mind privately owned games or companies are not a democracy. When the administration says NO it means no. You can waste time on the subject if you wish, but you can't force others to waste their valuable time.

I'd like to second Cap's post, this childish behavior doesn't belong here.

-KJ

[HippyFool]

Hmm let's clear up a few interesting things:

1) Have I ever been fed? 100% yes. So has everyone who ever won before galactic logs were introduced. ETL won cos he had all of omega feeding him, or massing his rivals. HE has been fed, Zaphor was fed, the list goes on. However, the fact is that what you needed back then to win was to make friends. Why? First to get fed and second so there was less people to mass you at the end.

2) I have never been fed since the galactic logs came in, and I have never got a multi or anyone else to mass someone so that I could win. I win by spending a lot of time farming and waiting for the best farms, but also working out the best stats to build to get the highest possible rank. I also have a lot of friends which reduces how many people farm me. I also don't really attack active accounts so I generally keep all my income due to lack of retaliation.

3) When the heck did I admit that Skyfusion was my multi?

4) I am honestly tempted to make a multi right now to prove that only an idiot would have logged back into an account that everyone thinks is his multi from previous eras just to spy on a few people that I could have spied on myself for an insignificant amount of naq.

I mean really, the account spied on some people - why does everyone care? It made no difference to my account. I was putting all my naq into UP for the first 2 months - no amount of spy reports change this.

5) At least this topic is creating much needed activeness on the forum - this makes me happy indeed

6) I am truly enjoying how much everyone massing me is wasting each time they mass me... I think I am killing other peoples units 10x faster than I am losing mine without even attacking anyone myself :S


Hippy the idiot who logged onto his 'multi'
What was he thinking, has his brain gone faulty?
He shoulda made a new one
But instead what he's done
Is caused a massive revolt-eeee

[Arty Bang]

I mean really, the account spied on some people - why does everyone care? It made no difference to my account. I was putting all my naq into UP for the first 2 months - no amount of spy reports change this.

Its not who selina spied, its who selina(you) sabbed so you could get more units for your main account

Selina logs on and spies derivative and realizes all the untrained units out, so selina sabs derivative till the defence is low enough.
Selina logs off and right away Hippy then comes on without spying derivative and just starts raiding

Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex recon success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex recon success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex recon success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex recon success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex recon success:
Apr 16, 2014 Selina derivativex Sabotage success:

Selina logs off then hippy logs on immediately to raid derivative.

Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 9,579 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 8,936 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 9,665 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 10,742 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 10,535 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 10,097 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 10,425 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 10,311 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 9,846 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 10,752 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 11,102 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 11,577 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 10,037 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 11,820 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 11,343 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 10,973 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 12,206 untrained units kidnapped
Apr 16, 2014 HippyFool Modded derivativex Modded 723 untrained units kidnapped

Again if they were friends why is it impossible for them to never be on at the same time.

Normally I wouldn't post this stuff involving an investigation, but since this is not evidence, this make it ok.

[The Doctor]

PS: Just a question - will Arty be allowed to stay a Game Cop or will he be axed under some fake excuses like Crixus was, because Arty knows too much about certain cheaters? I am genuinely interested.

Crixus was removed as he abused the position, and didn't heed the previous warning given to him by Support.

Unless Arty abuses his position or breaks any rules, I don't see any reason why Arty should not stay as a Game Cop.


So, going with what Arty has posted...