Wraith Vs Ori

[Londo Mollari]

there is a lot we don't know about the wraith. It could be possible in a prolonged war against the Ori for the wraith to evolve sufficiently enough using prior dna to gain additional powers. Also, they may have the ability to ascend and as some have followers who see them as gods, they could use these followers as the ori do and gain power.

Who knows what the wraith and the ori for that matter are truely capable of?

[Zeratul]

noone knows exactly what they are capable of...

but the ori cant do much more in pegasus than they could in the milky way, as the ancients watch that galaxy as well... and there is one advantage with the pegasus galaxy over the milky way... in the milky way, there are hundreds of small factions with their own fleets and such, but in pegasus there is only one truly powerful army... and that is the wraith... in the milky way they can use the disunity to weaken the forces... in pegasus that is not possible... there they would be fighting one, organized and coordinated enemy, which is much more dangerous...

[Rokas]

And again you compare Ori shields to Daedalus shields. Well compare them to Ancients and add a big bonus. If Atalntis was able to hold on several Hives with only one ZPM(which wasn't even full), Ori could just as easily hold whole 60 Hives for similar time amount, which would be more of atleast a day than 2 hours.

Wraith improving on Prior DNA? Now that was one dumb idea... Wraith wouldnt be able to get in few meters of Prior, stun weapons would really doubtfully worked, because humans would have already used it. And even if by some accident Wratih would manage to sneak to Prior, he would first burn himself as was seen.

Ancients didn't have anything as powerful as Ori ships when they were fighting. The only massively used weapon being Drones, Ancients just couldn't do much to Hives. Even then, it was stated that one Hive against one Aurora-class was easy prey. The only problem being shielding wouldn't hold against many Hives. That's where Ori ships have advantage, furthermore - much more effective weapon.

We also know that Ancients were less advanced in biology than Ori(the plague case), so it is very possible Ori/Priors could make humans a bad food for Wraith - we have already seen one such case being used by Atlanteans on captured Wraith to test the virus - the Wraith would die after feeding.

Just please don't compare Daedalus shielding to Ori anymore, as Daedalus shielding isn't even any match for full-power Asgard shielding, not even talking about Ancient shielding.

[Zeratul]

we tried comparing it, and multiplying strength many times... and that time they had 12 hives attacking atlantis, then the ZPM wouldnt have lasted more than one or 2 days...

but if one says that ori shields would last 7 days under same bombardment, then they still wouldnt have much chance against 60 hives, 210 cruisers, and 24 000 darts... just the new number of hives would cause the time to be divided by 5, and the cruisers and darts would probably divide that in at least half again, so the end result would be 16 hrs, 48 minutes... but if one considers that cruisers also have darts, maybe 80 each, then suddenly the number of darts is up to 40 800, and the time would probably be shortened by several hours, so maybe 12 hrs endurance before being crushed...
the time it would take the ori ship to defeat all those wraith would be much, much more than 12 hrs... also, the wraith could easily get reinforcements in that time, so the ori would be in even more trouble...

[Spacey]

Wraith improving on Prior DNA? Now that was one dumb idea... Wraith wouldnt be able to get in few meters of Prior, stun weapons would really doubtfully worked, because humans would have already used it.

Please try to be more respectful to another persons ideas.

It was show to work, and the wraith are more advanced than humans, so the technology could be reversed engineered and improved upon.

[Rokas]

I didn't want to offend on that statement, just it was completely balderdash. I do not like Ori, but it is just plain impossible to attack a Prior without suppressing his powers first, what can only be done using technology(which Wraith doesn't have). We have seen Prior having no damage from pretty powerful nuclear weapon in supergate episode - although unknown if it was related to the touch of Stargate(as superconductor and probably power-source for the shield).

Zeratul, thatnks for good calculations. It changed my mind quite a bit. Didn't consider the lack of Point Defense weaponry in Ori ships and we didn't see any small fighters on Ori side to fight back darts. And yet all Hives(including Cruisers) wouldn't survive the standard 4-ship invasion of Ori. And later on they wouldn't have the power to face even one Ori ship.
Darts wouldn't help against the main gun fire as they did with nuclear torpedos by crashing into them before reaching Hive. And dart fire would probably do zero damage to the shields as they would regenerate faster than deplete. But the number of Wraith in darts would certainly make it complicated to eliminate. The only way being removing their feeding source.

All in all, the war would go long and again Wraith numbers being the only cause. One on one or even one on ten fights would result in Hives being crushed, so Hive would prove totally unuseful for Wraith in time. Some other methods to fight back the Ori would probably be found.

[Zeratul]

exactly... and while a few darts wouldnt weaken the shields much, the number we calculated would help keep the strength down while the cruisers and hives brought it down with more powerful weapons... alone, the cruisers and hives wouldnt be able to work fast enough to overcome the replenishing powers of the ori shields, but with over 40k darts, that would be zeroed out... so it would only go down...

[Londo Mollari]

you assume that wraith could not neutralize a Prior, a prior was effectively rendered powerless using a transmitter of some kind using a frequency which interrupted the priors brainwaves. The wraith may possess similar technology, even if they didn't, we don't know how potent there pyscic abilities are. Rendering a prior unconcious would make it very simple to obtain dna from it. They could then clone this dna, growing it in lab conditions. We do not know what the wraiths rate of evolution is. They may evolve very quickly from feeding on prior dna, who know?

It is feasable that they could engineer there own retrovirus and re-write there dna to include prior dna. Who knows what kind of power that would give them.

[Zeratul]

the wraith are approximatly on the level of unascended ancients at the time after the ancients got to pegasus, as they have two evolutionary sources... first being the Iratus bug, and the second being the ancients these bugs fed upon... and considering how far the wraith are from that bug, their evolutionary rate must be extremely high... therefore, if they got hold of prior DNA, and decided there were some advantages in it they could use, they would no doubt quickly evolve to use it... but it isnt too much above their own already, as the ancients were very advanced when they got to pegasus, though they were more advanced at the time of the Lantean seige... most likely, we have yet to see the full scope of wraith mental powers...

besides, we havent seen any advanced human successfully use their abilities directly upon someone who has same level of evolution, and who is fully prepeared and rested... that is probably because they can stop each other from doing it... and so the wraith would easily neutralize priors, even if it took 5 or 10 of them to neutralize one prior, the ori soldiers still would have no chance if all priors were neutralized (and fed upon)... there would after all still be tens of thousands of other wraith there to feed upon them... and ori soldiers wouldnt be able to fight wraith and the shades they create... especially not if they were leaderless, and with no priors, they would be just that...

[Osi]

the wraith are no where near as advanced as the ancients had been. They mimicked some of their technology much lke the Goa'uld. They are in my opinion no more advanced then the goau'ld in terms of the vast exspanse of their universal knowledge.

[Zeratul]

if they are no more advanced than the goa'uld, then how could the wraith in misbegotten summon an hiveship without any piece of technology? or for that matter, how can they steer the hives? the goa'uld have no mental powers of that kind, but the wraith do have such powers...

and the technology of the wraith is inferior to that of the ancients, yes... but it is still very advanced, above that of humans, but also off to the side, as it has developed in a different direction... and they are so many more than the ori, so they have strength in numbers...

[Osi]

The have mental abilities abut that doesn't make them more technologically advanced. So what if they can summon and 10 mile long shieldless target. Adria said that hundreds of ori ships were on their way. It took the Wraith 100 years to take the galaxy from the ancients the Ori will conquer The Milky Way a much larger galaxy with a wide variety of advanced inhabitants in a months. The Wraith also have around 60 hiveships left and from the the more recent episodes we seem to have lost the cruisers(plot hole maybe?) The Wraith would easily be cast down by the Ori or for that matter the Gou'ald in the snakeheads case it would be pyrrithic victory with heavy loses but they would prevail thanks to the numbers arguement.

[Zeratul]

the wraith have not fought all that well because they have too little to feed upon... and if they were lowered in numbers, they would no doubt start reproducing... and to bulid more ships... and how long would a few ori ships stand against the combined firepower of several hundred hive ships, several thousand cruisers, and several hundred thousand darts?

[Londo Mollari]

the food supply of the Wraith has been mentioned a couple of times. It really depends where the battles are going to take place. Pegasus, Milky Way or Ori home galexies.

Pegasus - Wraith have advantage of numbers, extensive knowledge of the system. Not a great deal of people to feed on.

Milky Way - both are not local to the galaxy, however there is a plentifull food source for the Wraith to feed on.

Ori galaxy - Ori have home advantage, however if the Wraith arrive in sufficient numbers they could perhaps feed on many of the Ori worshipping planets weakening the Ori and gaining strenght at the same time

[Zeratul]

also, if we base it in ori galaxy, they could perhaps say that they will not feed on any that worship them instead of the ori, and through that pull the power base of the ori out from under them... but the ori can also directly do things there...

in pegasus, the ori wouldnt have much chance of converting all that many, as all the humans there revere the ancients... so they would have yet another weakness there...

if in milky way, the power would be more even... and wraith could also use same scheme as described above (in ori galaxy paragraph), and they would have the advantage... both would have disadvantage because of not being local, but wraith could get re-enforcements faster... but ori have advantage of having gotten there first...