A proposal: the newb helping service

[Spacey]

I think it's important to distinguish between a "hand up" and a "hand out". Teaching is great, but please don't forget that part of the struggle is doing things on your own too.

I think it would be a bad idea for an experienced player to just send resources to 5-10 smaller players...that's probably what a CO-officer relationship is for.

I like most of what I see Ben, esp. the respect part.

[BenjaminMS]

Seems like a decent idea. But this is what training alliances and recruiting commanders are for. Just need non-top ranking players to be more active and more organised so they can "hold their own". And if you can't do that yourself, how will you be able to maintain it?

Also, they teach them the proper reaction on being massed (so: in example, just massing them shortly, waiting for their reaction, if they fail to give the right reaction (no swearing, no deaththreaths and such stuff), just mass them again, untill they understood what the meaning of it is.

Not sure what you mean there, do you mean to mass random people and get their reaction? :S

I meant that they *with advanced preparation* mass their officers, wait for their reaction and mass them short again if they fail to give the right reaction...

How bout we teach them to mass and hold there own and when they are bored like me and bryan and so many others they can mass too. and it cleans up the game some more

Look... that is right the thing I DIDN'T want as a outcome... pfft...

This is a nice idea in genral but like it was said, noobs thease days are being spoon fed. They are so spoiled that they think they can have what ever they want and go around bullying other noobs that wernt so luckeyt as to have some one make them strong. That and just building them up doens tteach them how to work for it, in that they wont be able to keep the account going with out some on eholding their hand.

Good point. Point is, that my proposal was meant to work out that wouldn't happen. Of course, there is always a chance it goes the way you point out... Thanks for mentioning

Thanks so far for all your reactions. -Ben

[Theta Sigma]

How about something like bumfights? we pick two n00b players, and offer them 200 billion naq to kick the crap out of each other's army? o0 The winner gets the naq.

[TheRook]

Lets stop spoon feeding noobs... they need to learn to start using forks...

and translated...

leave them to learn how the people in the past have learnt... just because there are bigger people out there with vast knowledge doesn't mean noobs nowadays need the help...

just like the noobs of past who have grown & learnt without such treatment..


I say no to all this lets help noobs...


Noobs are there to learn the hard way... thus they earn the newbie title...

Once they have learnt and grown... THEN and only then should they be taught how to be more efficient and to do things better and learn stuff they had no idea about...


In real life you dont get shown how to do everything throughout your life... you get shown somethings e.g. work on UP and miners then other stats... but nobody will hold your hand as you trample along...


No more support for Noobs...

So sayeth

TheRook
One who hath vanished from Radar for a while...

[Theta Sigma]

Lets stop spoon feeding noobs... they need to learn to start using forks...

and translated...

leave them to learn how the people in the past have learnt... just because there are bigger people out there with vast knowledge doesn't mean noobs nowadays need the help...

just like the noobs of past who have grown & learnt without such treatment..


I say no to all this lets help noobs...


Noobs are there to learn the hard way... thus they earn the newbie title...

Once they have learnt and grown... THEN and only then should they be taught how to be more efficient and to do things better and learn stuff they had no idea about...


In real life you dont get shown how to do everything throughout your life... you get shown somethings e.g. work on UP and miners then other stats... but nobody will hold your hand as you trample along...


No more support for Noobs...

So sayeth

TheRook
One who hath vanished from Radar for a while...

so you're on board with my n00b fights idea?

[Castor]

TheRook is a big man, using big words.
In RL, I would have kicked your butt if you had told me to knock it off with my questions and my asking for help and find out for myself. Lucky for the both of us, we are reasonable men, and we don't know each other in RL.

In RL, we have such a thing called SCHOOL. You may not yet realise this (I have no idea of your age, I'm sorry) but school is in fact a Newbie-Training. I went to a lot of schools in my life, heck, I only just finished the last one. For now. Because I will ALWAYS be a noob in something. The fact that I'm a black belt doesn't mean I invented karate. The fact that I'm an industrial designer right now doesn't mean I invented the pencil, to draw, or programmed or even compiled CAD to design my stuff.. does it?

This only goes to prove that your RL example is flawed. Of course.. when I go down I take the blame, and the fall. I won't drag others into my bankruptcy. But if there are others who teach me to avoid my bankruptcy in the first place, I'll be damned if I don't accept their experience as my guide.

Of course.. I do agree with you that Newbs, like me, should not be spoon-fed by people all over the game, until they have massive accounts that can match all others.
However, IF people decide they want to help me, or any other newb, they should be free to do so, and not fall into your disgrace.


I have been helped to start by a bunch of awesome people, and believe me, I couldn't have been where I am without them. Oh yes, I know all about raiding, I daresay I know a great deal, I could become a vulture and raid away. I could also become desperate at my loong way to the top, and as such, decide to go multi, or make me a few planet thief accounts.



I am Castor. I am a newb. Good people have and still help me. And I'm goddamn proud of and happy with them.

~Castor.
id = 102102 (I believe it says that in my sig as well.)

[TheRook]

TheRook is a big man, using big words.
In RL, I would have kicked your butt if you had told me to knock it off

arrogance... that is what your opening sentence shouted out at me there...

Questions are fine... but taking people under your wing and spoon feeding them exactly what to do isn't...

In RL, we have such a thing called SCHOOL. You may not yet realise this (I have no idea of your age, I'm sorry) but school is in fact a Newbie-Training. I went to a lot of schools in my life, heck, I only just finished the last one. For now. Because I will ALWAYS be a noob in something. The fact that I'm a black belt doesn't mean I invented karate. The fact that I'm an industrial designer right now doesn't mean I invented the pencil, to draw, or programmed or even compiled CAD to design my stuff.. does it?

at school when your doing work... does your teacher give you the answers? no they dont your supposed to do it for yourself... they will answer questions... the same rule applies for games in my book...

if your a black belt in karate i'm dissappointed by your agressiveness... karate is used in defence... not to pick fights...

Did I say that I know everything... no i didnt... but i probably do know quite a lot... and there are bound to be others who know far more... but you being unable to control yourself on a forum... for a GAME

Of course.. I do agree with you that Newbs, like me, should not be spoon-fed by people all over the game, until they have massive accounts that can match all others.

a revelation

However, IF people decide they want to help me, or any other newb, they should be free to do so, and not fall into your disgrace.

my disgrace? of saying that you need to learn things yourself?
then I will consider myself totally disgraceful...

help is fine... but not walking them through the game holding there hand giving them lots of units lots of naq... and playing there game for them...

I have been helped to start by a bunch of awesome people, and believe me, I couldn't have been where I am without them. Oh yes, I know all about raiding, I daresay I know a great deal, I could become a vulture and raid away. I could also become desperate at my loong way to the top, and as such, decide to go multi, or make me a few planet thief accounts.

I got where I am on my own... yes I have had temporary loans of UU/Naq where I have paid them back with interest (e.g. trying to get into the top 100 for my last 2 ascensions)

I got where i got by buying SS the first day i started playing... then worked on UP and traded and traded using the in game market... the i discovered private brokers and traded UU for a higher amount of naq than the market I kept working on my UP and doing this... once I got to a point where I was in the top 50 I started ascending i worked through them all myself using my UU and naq for each ascension I got to a LG+1...

my point is that I ahve learnt far more doing all of this myself than anyone who got handouts because i learnt the hard way about everything and I would say my play style is better for it...


[/quote]
I am Castor. I am a newb. Good people have and still help me. And I'm goddamn proud of and happy with them.

~Castor.
id = 102102 (I believe it says that in my sig as well.)[/quote]

My game name is TheRook I got where I am through working hard by myself... I am more proud of that... than if I were to have received help...

but we just may be different people...

but I prefer to earn things myself...

TheRook

[Lore]

I took in some n00bs once to help them. I helped them in a different way then those mentioned here. Its the same way I have suggested in the past.

I noted all their stats, gave them tasks, and then evaluated their performance(Being their CO gave me access to their logs and such)

I then repaired them to where they were and showed them their mistakes. The only thing they gained besides knowledge was my the income they received from me while they were my officer.

I repaired them so they had no concerns as to losing to many resources. This allowed them to see thier loses and to know if something was really worth it. Anything done outside my permission was theirs to repair.

[Castor]

Haha, well done.. destroyed my point completely.

@ arrogance: Comes with the guy.. I'm sorry if it shouted out that much at ya.

@ agressiveness: That doesn't come with the guy. It's a metaphorical bashing I would give you, friend. Not that I couldn't, but I wouldn't.

@ school: True. But you have the lessons first. Exams, indeed, are things to do by yourself. In these lessons, you learn everything you are supposed to know at that stage of your development. In the end, you'll have specialised in something and, if you've chosen the right path, you know 'all' about that specialisation.

@ picking fights (again): I SERIOUSLY don't intend to pick a fight, and if I came across angry, than I apologise. I am not angry, but I may have written a bit too fiery. Comes with the guy.

@ me not being able to control myself: Oh.. lay it off already. You're overreacting. I clearly don't intend to do anything to you, anywhere. And there's a difference in perspective at play here.

@ disgrace: I pointed at the people who did choose to help, who would fall in your disgrace.. exaggerating, to prove my point and get us to reach a compromise.

@ help: I love help. And like I said, I agree with your words on spoon-feeding newbs.

@ our growth pattern: Different. Of course it is different. And of course our views (on this) conflict.. Do you think I'd accept a 10 mil UU gift, 'to get me started'? Heh. You don't know me yet.. but I reckon we will.

@ proudness: You do have more to be proud of.. and I take my hat off at your achievements any time of the day. Especially after hearing how you got it all yourself.

I think we're somewhat different people, so far.
I have no problem with you, quite the contrary in fact.
Hope this solves things? To a point.

~Castor

[Zeratul]

perhaps a solution could be to give those newbies under training tasks? like; get army size to x, and you will get to learn another semi-secret thing of SGW... where each new task has harder goals, and the rewards are either special knowledge of some kind or some other beneficial thing (i.e. membership in a specific alliance or to have someone very good as officer/commander or other such things)...

isnt that better than the method of: "here is x uu and y naq, use it on this and that, then do that and that... and here are some more free resources..."?

[gooseman the first]

noone was suggesting spoon feeding an newbies (well i didnt read the whole thing, long posts make my head hurt, so i just assume) just taking them as an officer for a while to TEACH them the ins and outs, not to hand them uu, naq for up etc. (well maby a little if they're good)

[Dagr]

We all have our opinions, if you want to spoon feed your officers good for you, if you don't, then don't. Theres no need to critize each others playing tactitcs.

[Castor]

Personally I love the idea of working towards goals a commander suggests.. it's really motivating when you have your actual commander be involved with you and all. I for one am lucky to have the CO I have.

[Thelen]

Helping noobs to learn is the very reason why this game is as big as it is. Not that i can say, but im sure people like Bill and bryan, and the other top players, im sure they all learnt some things from other players.

FAQs and how-to-play guides don't help much, escpecially not in this game. I doubt the bigger players want to give away all their secrets, but i do agree it would be useful to have some more information, such as how to raid (the numbers u should get, the time spent, etc etc etc)

[BenjaminMS]

For the ones who talked constructive: nice to see it.
@iKon: WTH... you didn't either read the thread or understand it's meaning, did you?
@Castor... such arguments won't help you...