Stop artificially producing AT in the market.

[Lord_Zeus]

Alright, Wolf You've done an excellent job... Been trying to pin down why the game has been sliding downhill and thats the reason I think. I'm not going to address the majority of points because they already have... however in regards to how it will be harder for new players to catch up, I don't think that will be the case, the reason for this is that although you say you need at to raid and get uu... what are the profits of say 1.5k at, say at 40 uu per turn (thats about what I raid from... prob get a little more average... I occassionally raid) thats about 60k uu, of which 30k goes back into buying turns. Now if turns were limited, you would see the amount of uu left out by the innactives increase dramatically, I'd imagine perhaps up to 100-200k uu out, or mabye a little less, also the average amount of naq that would be out would increase dramatically, because instead of craploads of at being used to attack, people would be attacking less. Basically the profits would increase heaps, meaning you could spend a lot less effort, to increase a fair bit more, while those spending more effort still gain more through buying turns, there will always be a profit assocciated with using attack turns, the reason being is that if it is unprofitable... people simply wont attack, and the unactive accounts at the bottom, although making less naq, will continue making this less naq until they do become profitable.

You guys say that it will reduce the war in the game... well mabye there will still be lots of war, just a lot more smartness about it, with no waste of resources, I've been playing for ages... and I always remember being able to go to war with a lot of people whenever I wanted basically... hell I was in the old tok'ra lol... with esker, although it didnt do my account too good I could still have all the fun I wanted, and it was easy to catch up stragely through farming... I remember buying at's at about half what I could attack for Easily and becoming rather profitable .

Guys... I know raiding seems an easy way to catch up but it really just isnt... if you want to throw your life into you will but be honest... can any of you tell me that spending 4 hrs a day in this game, monotonously clicking "raid raid raid" or "attack attack attack" is really spending your life well. I mean... seriously there are much better things you can be doing. And if you look at the amount you are gaining from this... it just doesnt add up to the 100 mil army's that rule the game. Admitedly the game is logarithmic, which will always mean its harder to catch up... apart from reseting the game, but raiding has just further antagonized this problem. I remember asgard rulling the game with the naq they managed to keep, and not really just the larger ones, the smaller asgard did quite alright as well.

If you wish to discuss it add me to msn, mailto:stuartlzsouthwell@hotmail.com, I think I can convince all of you the need to shut the at supply off >_<. Honestly until this happens sgw will turn into a small bunch of commited players all farming the innactive ones... be honest guys, you know it will happen, because without the half active players having any sort of chance to build up.. (it used to be possible) they will eventually quit.

*sigh... I could write a thesis on this, and I've been rambling for the last two paragraphs but you guys understand what I'm saying...

I also think that although the poll is split down the middle... (I'm suprised more arent leaning in favour of wolf... of course I'm biased) it shows that a lot of people are unhappy with what is happening, and this will only get worse as time goes on and those spending a lot of time and effort in the game (yeah... I know you've put a lot of work into it, but I again ask you that question, is it worth spending weeks of your life doing it?) keep going ahead... It wont effect the larger players too much as they can grow through buying uu, larger probably being from... well I don't know mabye 25 mil, however to get to that stage someone has to spend a month or so of damned heavy raiding >_<, just not worth it. I mean its a text based game, fun as hell I'll admit but you really shouldnt have to spend this much time in it... its almost as bad as the kings of chaos clicking... which is incredibly fun...

bah... still rambling , munchy, catch me on msn! its up there somewhere, I'll convince ya

[Zeratul]

you got us convinced...

[Wolf359]

@ Blitz - I'm not quoting because you have some how messed up the tags. Your warning was more for your argumentative and condescending nature. It is not for you or anyone else, bar the Mod team, to decide when a topic is dead. And, as I clarified - we prefer existing topics to be used, no matter how old they are.

And, for the last time - if you have a problem with my mod comments - you take them up in private - NOT IN PUBLIC! If you didn't deserve a warning before (which you did), you have more than ,made up for it now. Consider this your final warning.

That goes for anyone else, if you question a mod or become embroiled in an argument another player is having with a mod, you will not do yourelf any favours and will be subject to the same action.

[Nox]

being someone that have seen this game evolve, i say no to this suggestion, and that this suggestion would in fact ruined the game

this game was made without the market etc etc, yes it was a classic KoC. it was fun for a while, but after a while it started getting bored, i even left the game for over a month cause of that, and others did too, and what did u mean about in the old days u didnt have to be online that much?? if u didnt u would get farmed, remember?? especially b4 the bank existed

and i disagree with u wolf, when u say things are getting easy, its only easy for ppl that have been playing for a while and have great income, already have their big armies, and with the army cap, they dont have anymore more to do, to the new players its not easy at all, it takes plenty of strategy and good planning, look at munchy, hes a somewhat new player, that got to the game, understood how it worked, planned his way, and got where he is now, he spent plenty of time, yes ofc, but it took great planning and great playing to get where he is

there are 2 ways to improve the game how it is right now, to make it less easy like u putted, to change the power, cause thats really the matter here, u and slepnier dont like the way the power gap is right now, and they are:

1-total reset, but that would make too many ppl leave the game, cause of too much time and rl money invested in the game by a lot of ppl, so i dont think this would ever happen

2-take out the army cap´s, but seriously, there isnt a real cap, its like admin said, its a new way to play the game, u can still grow, but at a slower rate, and with a different gameplay, so what i mean is take out the raiding cap, but keep the plague, and start making a serious effort to catch the multis and cheaters, cause a lot of ppl are still being scammed by multis/cheaters, and those cheaters keep growing and growing ingame, with no worries whatsoever

i never had any trouble with any mod here, and i dont want to go agaisnt any rules or saying that u are not right, im not saying anything that is disrespectfull, but blitz as a point, this is an old poll, that was rejected, and doesnt matter how long u keep it open (again, it is ur choice, u are the mod) but it will still be rejected, cause the game is better now, a lot better, more action, and we even have my insurance policy, just that makes this game better now, lol

[Wolf359]

Judochop - consider yourself warned for qrguing with a mod in public.

For the last time - If you disagree with a mods comments - then TAKE IT UP IN PRIVATE!

Blitz was warned because in my opinion he was being argumentative and condescending towards a mod.

It is not Blitz's dcision to say a topic is dead (particularly since it was only 1 month since the previous post). Threads that are way older than that are regularly brought back to life - particularly in the suggestions section - because we would rather existing threads are used than starting new duplicate ones.

Finally - I am quite capable of separating my Admin duties from my player posts (mainly becasue I don't play anymore).

It really doesn't bother me if people do not agree (Nox's post above for example - well put!) - what does bother me are other forum users trying to be smart by trying to tell othes that they shouldn't be posting in the thread - what Blitz said, and why I warned him had nothing to do with the suggestion itself - it was for his argumentative and condescending nature.

I really do not care if it gets implemented or not anymore - BECAUSE I DO NOT PLAY - but to say it has been rejected is ludicrous when teh voting is so close - and since when did the Game Admins ever introduce things that only had positive approval from the vast MINORITY of players that visit the forum?

[Wolf359]

As I said when i posted that, Id love to talk to you via msn. If you really want to, im waiting. But Im pretty good at talking, so dont if you really dont wanna here opinions.

"I really do not care if it gets implemented or not anymore - BECAUSE I DO NOT PLAY - but to say it has been rejected is ludicrous when teh voting is so close - and since when did the Game Admins ever introduce things that only had positive approval from the vast MINORITY of players that visit the forum?"


Thats the thing. the vast majority of ppl on the forum, are people, that dont stand to lose much from this.

Check the number of forum users compared to actual game accounts - the forum users represent a vast minority of players.

[311 [TA]]

I think a proper change of course would be to limit how players grow when at the top, and stop talkign about actions that would STOP growth with small-medium size players including a couple of my officers and friends that would all quit if this idea was implemented since playing would be pointless since they would never have a snowballs chance in _____ of ever catching up to any bloody soul

[Wolf359]

That's an idea worthy of some further investigation. You should think it out further and post a detailed proposal in separate thread.

[[SGC_ReplicÅtors]]

This is what i see from the game....

Some ppl have the luxury of actually sitting on the throne all day and not get farmed even not in PPT...i wish i had this but nope, society of this game is to afraid to actually go and change it because they are afraid of loosing a couple of numbers(stats), and forced many players to do what?....

...Raid to get stronger there is no other way...besides buying but they requires huge amounts of naq, i believe extremer saw this and he did it he sat there and raided all day to get huge...

You put the time and effort into something you be better at it....it applies to everything that i no off....

Everybody has the capabilities to raid the ppl who dont want to raid gives me the same 2 reasons that has never changed...

Laziness and Takes too Long <----- what are the opposites of these 2? Time and Effort...

Well well that brings us back to putting time and effort into something

Not many ppl have the time to raid all day for a month straight, but imagine if you where able to pull this off? u pretty much squeezed the last 2 years of what some ppl have been doing to get very large army sizes in a month? now isnt that worth it?

[Wolf359]

Alright, Wolf You've done an excellent job... Been trying to pin down why the game has been sliding downhill and thats the reason I think. I'm not going to address the majority of points because they already have... however in regards to how it will be harder for new players to catch up, I don't think that will be the case, the reason for this is that although you say you need at to raid and get uu... what are the profits of say 1.5k at, say at 40 uu per turn (thats about what I raid from... prob get a little more average... I occassionally raid) thats about 60k uu, of which 30k goes back into buying turns. Now if turns were limited, you would see the amount of uu left out by the innactives increase dramatically, I'd imagine perhaps up to 100-200k uu out, or mabye a little less, also the average amount of naq that would be out would increase dramatically, because instead of craploads of at being used to attack, people would be attacking less. Basically the profits would increase heaps, meaning you could spend a lot less effort, to increase a fair bit more, while those spending more effort still gain more through buying turns, there will always be a profit assocciated with using attack turns, the reason being is that if it is unprofitable... people simply wont attack, and the unactive accounts at the bottom, although making less naq, will continue making this less naq until they do become profitable.

You guys say that it will reduce the war in the game... well mabye there will still be lots of war, just a lot more smartness about it, with no waste of resources, I've been playing for ages... and I always remember being able to go to war with a lot of people whenever I wanted basically... hell I was in the old tok'ra lol... with esker, although it didnt do my account too good I could still have all the fun I wanted, and it was easy to catch up stragely through farming... I remember buying at's at about half what I could attack for Easily and becoming rather profitable .

Guys... I know raiding seems an easy way to catch up but it really just isnt... if you want to throw your life into you will but be honest... can any of you tell me that spending 4 hrs a day in this game, monotonously clicking "raid raid raid" or "attack attack attack" is really spending your life well. I mean... seriously there are much better things you can be doing. And if you look at the amount you are gaining from this... it just doesnt add up to the 100 mil army's that rule the game. Admitedly the game is logarithmic, which will always mean its harder to catch up... apart from reseting the game, but raiding has just further antagonized this problem. I remember asgard rulling the game with the naq they managed to keep, and not really just the larger ones, the smaller asgard did quite alright as well.

If you wish to discuss it add me to msn, mailto:stuartlzsouthwell@hotmail.com, I think I can convince all of you the need to shut the at supply off >_<. Honestly until this happens sgw will turn into a small bunch of commited players all farming the innactive ones... be honest guys, you know it will happen, because without the half active players having any sort of chance to build up.. (it used to be possible) they will eventually quit.

*sigh... I could write a thesis on this, and I've been rambling for the last two paragraphs but you guys understand what I'm saying...

I also think that although the poll is split down the middle... (I'm suprised more arent leaning in favour of wolf... of course I'm biased) it shows that a lot of people are unhappy with what is happening, and this will only get worse as time goes on and those spending a lot of time and effort in the game (yeah... I know you've put a lot of work into it, but I again ask you that question, is it worth spending weeks of your life doing it?) keep going ahead... It wont effect the larger players too much as they can grow through buying uu, larger probably being from... well I don't know mabye 25 mil, however to get to that stage someone has to spend a month or so of damned heavy raiding >_<, just not worth it. I mean its a text based game, fun as hell I'll admit but you really shouldnt have to spend this much time in it... its almost as bad as the kings of chaos clicking... which is incredibly fun...

bah... still rambling , munchy, catch me on msn! its up there somewhere, I'll convince ya

Didn't get a chance earlier - but well said!

[[SGC_ReplicÅtors]]

Guys... I know raiding seems an easy way to catch up but it really just isnt... if you want to throw your life into you will but be honest... can any of you tell me that spending 4 hrs a day in this game, monotonously clicking "raid raid raid" or "attack attack attack" is really spending your life well. I mean... seriously there are much better things you can be doing. And if you look at the amount you are gaining from this... it just doesnt add up to the 100 mil army's that rule the game. Admitedly the game is logarithmic, which will always mean its harder to catch up... apart from reseting the game, but raiding has just further antagonized this problem. I remember asgard rulling the game with the naq they managed to keep, and not really just the larger ones, the smaller asgard did quite alright as well.

no its not a good way to spend your life, but playing this game isn't either lol

but it varies from person to person i guesse, some ppl have other things to do but while others don't im not concerned about what ppl think about me, they can call me whatever they want for being a loser spending XX amount of time to raid all those units.

[Munchy]

Guys... I know raiding seems an easy way to catch up but it really just isnt... if you want to throw your life into you will but be honest... can any of you tell me that spending 4 hrs a day in this game, monotonously clicking "raid raid raid" or "attack attack attack" is really spending your life well. I mean... seriously there are much better things you can be doing. And if you look at the amount you are gaining from this... it just doesnt add up to the 100 mil army's that rule the game. Admitedly the game is logarithmic, which will always mean its harder to catch up... apart from reseting the game, but raiding has just further antagonized this problem. I remember asgard rulling the game with the naq they managed to keep, and not really just the larger ones, the smaller asgard did quite alright as well.

no its not a good way to spend your life, but playing this game isn't either lol

Personally, I spend about 4 days a week on ppt, and I barely log on during those times. On the days I am off ppt and I am able to spend time on the game I spend 60% working out alliance member stuff, 20% looking for at's, and 20% raiding. That doesn't add up to much raiding, but just 20 minutes once you are good at it can do wonders. I actually spend alot less time on this game now than I did when I first started, partly because it isn't that exciting, and partly because I don't need to in order to keep up.

Lord_Zeus, I added you to msn, I havn't seen you on yet though. I wouldn't mind catching you Wolf either

[[TA] Ryan Uy]

i see this thread has been reopened

i am against this suggestion, it would seem a nice suggestion from a theoretical point of view, yes a limited amount of at would make bigger players want more thus the price would increase and with it small players can sell thier at at a higher or ridiculous price...and with the naq they have they can buy uu for it right? but theory and reality sometimes dont usually agree with each other

in reality, there are few unintended consequences to this, we have yet to see or discover, but two things are for sure, i have been around here since march of 2005 and i have seen that this game has brought out the best as well as the worst in players, with a ridiculous prices of at this can create more conflict because for example do big players want to pay lets say 1bil naq for 1k at? (exaggeritaing this of course but it could be possible yes?) wars or arguments may rise with such an occurance

second, is selling at vs raiding have a huge difference, for one raiding will allow a new player catch up with some one playing a year in a few months, whilst selling would take you how long? i think longer than a year

let me make an example of mine, me and my officer, well before i dont raid, was lazy doing it at that time i had around almost 1.5 mil army size and here is my officer at that time was at 500k army size, well he did some raiding and after a few months of joining he was almost catching me up, and my up at that time was at 20k already, so you can see that raiding can really help new players, now my officer has a bigger army size than me, there are quite alot of new players that have gotten much bigger all because of raiding, and having lots of ats at their disposal, some now have around 20mil army size enough to compete with the big boys of this game, and because they have grown, they are now helping new members

the way i see it this is how the game should be played big helping small not limiting them

just my two cents on the matter...

[MJNC]

i'm against this suggestion also

At this moment i'm on vacation, so i have more free time that i usually have, but even with that extra free time, very few times i have manage to sit and raid a good ammount of uu. so i started to trading turns. it doesn't have the same gains as raiding, but it's something.

If the AT's are limited from the market, you say that the younger players will have more chances of growing by selling the turns, well i disagree, if you limit the number of turns:

FIRST, that will also limit the traders like me and several others from making a good gain withouth spending so much time playing.

SECOND, now the game only produces around 150AT's per day, which selling them will make (IF the rates go up) around 3-5k uu, per day, which is far from being a good growing rate for the new players, without counting the full SS problem.

THIRD, the raiders spend A LOT more turns that the game produces, so they will start buying turns from the new players, but the new players will still be getting the turns at the game speed which is very low. so at the end there will be a point in which the game will be frozen, becouse of lack of AT's.

and LAST, IF this suggestion is released (i hope not), between this time, and the time the turns are frozen, the game will certainly lose A LOT of players. which i'm guessing is not the best interest of the admins.

[god]

for christ sakes people, use some common sense.

Dead accounts have a UP that isn't going to change.

so, whether there are 999 septillion turns or 1000 turns on the market, the same amount of raidable turns are available. That means that if there are say 1 million uu produced per day on all of the raid farms, everybody can scramble to buy the 999 septillion turns, and raid each account each turn for whatever the amount of UU they get each turn, just so that they can get a few UU, or they can hope to get some of the 1000 turns, but then raid with their turn produced UU every 5th turn, and get huge quantities of uu from raiding.

Additionally, as all of these accounts actually retain a few UU, they will accumulate naq a bit faster, allowing for larger naq farms.

Ultimatly, there will be MORE resources for the beginning player available if there were 0 turns on the market than with the current situation, OR unlimited turns.

Simply put...

The amount of raidable UU stays the same no matter how many turns are available.

The amount of farmable naq goes up if less turns are available, goes down if more are available.

Less turns is better for beginning accounts.