Make a way to kill or even raid miners/lifers.Or sabotage it

[Sleipnir]

@urogard
your ideea kinda ignores the reason lifers were introduced...
they are a weakness and are not supposed to be killed .. an account based on lifers is practically a farm (those over 95% of size as lifers know it already) .. and as time goes on more more accounts will have a bigger %
of lifers thus becomming farms for those who come from behind and want their naq.

I thought lifers were introduced to reduce the tactics of people sharing their UU while on PPT.

[Wolf359]

I think we're violently agreeing!

If it was up to me I'd remove miners/lifers from teh game and make UU killable.

That would not be an ideal solution IMO. Miners are needed to prevent your entire army from being raidable. Or we'd be right back to where raid was first introduced (and removed within hours due to player complaints). We could just remove raid altogether (again) but that would put us back in the situation where exponential growth through UP is the only way to the top, and whoever started their growth first will always remain ahead.

Killable miners will slow down the exponential curve at the top, provided that the top players actually get attacked. In this scenario, there are several factors that determine how big your army can get.

-UP. A steady flow of UU. Gain more than you lose and you will grow.
-Army size. It makes a difference if incoming fire hits a cottage or a skyscraper. More people means more losses.
-Diplomacy. If you attract too much violence, your losses will be bigger.
-UP planets. An extra way to improve your UP. At the risk of getting the planet stolen.
-Raid. A way to bypass UP to still gain extra units. Mind the diplomacy though, raid the wrong people and you may lose more than you gain.
-Market. You can always buy lifers.

People always complain that miners and lifers should be a safe place to store UU (same for anticovert). Maybe there should be a sort of bank for miners, like bomb shelters. They'll be safe but they wont be doing anything.

Ah - forgot to mention I'd scrap raid too!

[urogard]

@urogard
your ideea kinda ignores the reason lifers were introduced...
they are a weakness and are not supposed to be killed

I thought lifers were introduced to reduce the tactics of people sharing their UU while on PPT.

they were introduced just to prevent people mass training (or actually just untraining since miners didn't exist then) miners (but actually uu's) and to have an increased income for the duration of the ppt.

oh and pef:
you completely missed the point of introducing lifers
do you even know that at one point lifers got removed when ascending, the feature that they stay with you forever got put in afterwards.

.. an account based on lifers is practically a farm (those over 95% of size as lifers know it already) .. and as time goes on more more accounts will have a bigger %
of lifers thus becomming farms for those who come from behind and want their naq.

I am at 95% of my army being miners you don't have much less miners either, and i dont' see any trouble with it. In fact when i see people with 500k army sizes and having 200k defenders and 100k spies i have the strong temptation of massing them to show them it's the wrong strategy but i always avoid doing that becuase i'm not a bastard like some others. Hell even having 400k miners out of an army size of 500k is little and you should rethink your strategy

What is the difference between having lifers or miners, for me personally i never felt a difference. And those who have problems not having enough uu's to pay ascencion costs or complain about having too much lifers are really weird. you want and NEED lifers and miners because they give you income. If you'd untrain your miners you would have less income so what good does it do if you'd lower your income.

Besides no one ever said you can't raise your def and i was never a farm to anyone so i really fail to see any reasoning in your arguments (if they can be actually seen as arguments)

[urogard]

hehe seems i killed the topic. no post in a day now

[urogard]

it is possible that the initial motive for having lifers was different , but the game changed and now other issues becomed relevant
for example say some one has 3mil army and 2.85 mil lifers(95%)
and 20k UP.. now lets say he's being hit daily for naq , losing 5k supers each time .. how long before his defence crumbles .. purely because of naq hits
and inability to replace the supers ..
sure , this some one can go on crit and reduce naq hits .. but will he grow?

ok, then a way to solve this is that everyone will have 50% of his lifers turned into uu's

[Lord_Zeus]

hmmm, actually having lifers only killable may work, every time someone trains miners they lose 10%... I'm not sure thats the best way to do it, but its not the worst

[Sleipnir]

hmmm, actually having lifers only killable may work, every time someone trains miners they lose 10%... I'm not sure thats the best way to do it, but its not the worst

I can remember my first suggestion on miners. My idea was that miners would make more naq than UU, but would be killable. You had to risk your UU to increase your income. Even back then, people claimed that UU should never be killable because they paid real $$ to buy them from other people. Years onward and there's still no way to kill them. If turned to lifers, you're eternally stuck with them. Can't be killed, can't be ascended, can't be untrained, given away, or ritually sacrificed, they're cursed to an eternal life of slavery. It actually sounds logical that lifers would be killable, as a way to get rid of them.

[RobinInDaHood]

It actually sounds logical that lifers would be killable, as a way to get rid of them.

It will just be abused by big alliances. They would create "Lifer Conversion Programs" where they would attack each other regularly, the only purpose to kill off lifers. Those could then easily be replaced by UU from UP, raiding, game purchase, etc. Now, instead of a guy with a 50 million army size and 15 million tied up in lifers, you have a guy with NO lifers, same army size, and 15 million more UU to put into Strike/Defense/Covert.

Making lifers killable would just be abused to make powerful accounts even more powerful by migrating lifers into trained units.

[Sleipnir]

It actually sounds logical that lifers would be killable, as a way to get rid of them.

It will just be abused by big alliances. They would create "Lifer Conversion Programs" where they would attack each other regularly, the only purpose to kill off lifers. Those could then easily be replaced by UU from UP, raiding, game purchase, etc. Now, instead of a guy with a 50 million army size and 15 million tied up in lifers, you have a guy with NO lifers, same army size, and 15 million more UU to put into Strike/Defense/Covert.

Making lifers killable would just be abused to make powerful accounts even more powerful by migrating lifers into trained units.

That sounds completely ridiculous. Why would you want to replace your lifers with UU if its a lot cheaper to just add UU without killing the lifers?

[Lord_Zeus]

I agree... I'd give a lot for more lifers, can't see how exactly they are bad.. like they just give you more income really, you might say if your in a war that its just farmed away, but realistically, (I think this is ridiculous...) you can ppt 4 days and keep +50% of your income, and the 40%ish thats left over only 10% can be farmed because you put yourself on crit and nox... theres no reason why they would be bad for you... that I can see anyway

[RobinInDaHood]

That sounds completely ridiculous. Why would you want to replace your lifers with UU if its a lot cheaper to just add UU without killing the lifers?

It's not preferable at all, until you start hitting the army size limits or growth thresholds.

At 50 or 100 million army size, you might have 10-30 million lifers. That means you only have 40-70 million units available for doing something other than naq production. If I were at 50 million army size, I'd love to be able to dump all my lifers and miners into some other stat, like strike. I would never need to have another miner again if I could farm all the naq I needed.

Makes perfect sense to me...

[Lore]

That sounds completely ridiculous. Why would you want to replace your lifers with UU if its a lot cheaper to just add UU without killing the lifers?

It's not preferable at all, until you start hitting the army size limits or growth thresholds.

At 50 or 100 million army size, you might have 10-30 million lifers. That means you only have 40-70 million units available for doing something other than naq production. If I were at 50 million army size, I'd love to be able to dump all my lifers and miners into some other stat, like strike. I would never need to have another miner again if I could farm all the naq I needed.

Makes perfect sense to me...

I agree

[urogard]

If I were at 50 million army size, I'd love to be able to dump all my lifers and miners into some other stat, like strike. I would never need to have another miner again if I could farm all the naq I needed.

Makes perfect sense to me...

I'd love to see someone have 50 mil uu's trained into def, spies and strike.
you do know that the only way you could benefit from this tactic is to spend 24 hours/day farming and then you'd just make alot of enemies and would get massed eventually.

nothing beats having a 50 mil army, 1 mil defenders, 1 mil spies and the rest miners. (and then buy yourself 1 mil mercs and farm with that)

[~Phoenix~]

Miners and lifers are just fine how they are... try to think of new things instead of changing current ones.

[[sarevok]]

Ok, i was reading though and someone said that that's the safe house for UU, but even takin away miners/lifers, people can still train them to normal attack units, essentially being as safe as miners/lifers, so, there's no point in even trying, unless you plan to be able to sabatarge EVERYTHING