VT Tragedy/Gun Control

[Apadizamek]

well it happened, was listening to NPR and the guest mentioned FPS. Knew it was coming and then it happened, "violent video games in such a male dominated sector where you are rewarded for killing often innocent people quite possibly was a key factor to the massacre, as they were with the kids in columbine."

Well thanks, video games harm nobody. I play video games ALOT, on say KOTOR I'm the biggest, baddest, sith lord ever known. However you won't see my harming anyone in anything other then self defense.

[Saturnine]

Of course it is silly to blame video games to motivate someone to do something, however, I'm curious how much the video games he played to improve his ability to kill.

Don't get me wrong, I'm your typical Doom 3, FEAR player etc, but even the US Army / US Marines utilize video games to help with quick reaction thinking, unit tactics, etc.

How else could someone with an ENGLISH MAJOR be able to walk from classroom to classroom and able to shoot each student at least 3 times as reported by the ER doctors there?

I'm not trying to make a scapegoat of video games, they obviously didn't provide the motive, perhaps made it easier to achieve?

As much as someone would like to use games, music, movies as a motive they dont always apply. Especially in this mans case.

You want to know why this kid did this?

He was a nut. Thats all there is too it. This case is off the wall. This man is not only the most prolific school shooter, he will be remembered as one of the most disturbed as well...

The whole year his roomates knew him, he rarely spoke to them. They never seen him with friends or visitors. When he did open up to his roomate, it was always quite bizzarre. He told him about an imaginary girlfriend on one occasion, on another he would constantly call the roomate pretending to be his imaginary brother named "Question Mark".
When he was caught playing such a foolish game, he refused to admit calling the roomate. He was sitting in a dark dorm lounge all alone.

He would stalk campus women and the Univrsity police were always recieving complaints from them (none pressed charges however) and classmates remember him as extremely withrdrawn. The only conversations this man had with people for a whole year of his life were short, quick one line answers. He would speak when spoken too in other words, as if human interaction was an annoyance. A teacher tutored him for a whole semester and he never opened up to her either, never revealed intimated details of his life which is very strange. It was just himself and a teacher in a room alone for an ENTIRE semester.

Try sitting in a room every day with someone all alone for months. Eventually you'd start talking about your family, your interests, your friends, etc. Eventually you would get personal. He never got personal with anyone. Dont you find that disturbing? I am a shy withdrawn person. I couldnt live like this for a whole year of my life. This man took it to extremes..


As far as music is concerned, he listened to Led Zeplin and collective Soul. Hardly something that would motivate someone to vent their rage.

As for games? He didnt play them. His only recreational activity was riding his bicicle a few hours each night, every now an then. Then he would come into the dorm and sleep every night with a bright florecent light bulb inches from his head on the top bunk, he never complained once about the light, it didnt bother him.

The answer we are all looking for? This kid was crazy. He pushed everyone away because he knew he was crazy. He knew that they would know so he kept them all away.

After a whole year of this he was feeling an ungoldly sence of indifference to this world. It probably didnt mean two **Filtered** to him to kill everyone then himself. He woke up and said, "Is it really going to matter if I go nuts today? What is my life worth anyway?"

This was probably a spur of the moment thing for him and he was so isolated and bizzarre in his head that he couldnt tell the difference between his own life and death.. So why did someone elses mean anything to him either?

[Apadizamek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weG7A4lTGtg

thanks fox and jack thompson, you suck

[Quina Quen]

Posted by request of Saturnine, this is his literature not my own. Seems to be having problems with the forum itself at the minute

As much as someone would like to use games, music, movies as a motive they dont always apply. Especially in this mans case.

You want to know why this kid did this?

He was a nut. Thats all there is too it. This case is off the wall. This man is not only the most prolific school shooter, he will be remembered as one of the most disturbed as well...

The whole year his roomates knew him, he rarely spoke to them. They never seen him with friends or visitors. When he did open up to his roomate, it was always quite bizzarre. He told him about an imaginary girlfriend on one occasion, on another he would constantly call the roomate pretending to be his imaginary brother named "Question Mark".
When he was caught playing such a foolish game, he refused to admit calling the roomate. He was sitting in a dark dorm lounge all alone.

He would stalk campus women and the Univrsity police were always recieving complaints from them (none pressed charges however) and classmates remember him as extremely withrdrawn. The only conversations this man had with people for a whole year of his life were short, quick one line answers. He would speak when spoken too in other words, as if human interaction was an annoyance. A teacher tutored him for a whole semester and he never opened up to her either, never revealed intimated details of his life which is very strange. It was just himself and a teacher in a room alone for an ENTIRE semester.

Try sitting in a room every day with someone all alone for months. Eventually you'd start talking about your family, your interests, your friends, etc. Eventually you would get personal. He never got personal with anyone. Dont you find that disturbing? I am a shy withdrawn person. I couldnt live like this for a whole year of my life. This man took it to extremes..


As far as music is concerned, he listened to Led Zeplin and collective Soul. Hardly something that would motivate someone to vent their rage.

As for games? He didnt play them. His only recreational activity was riding his bicicle a few hours each night, every now an then. Then he would come into the dorm and sleep every night with a bright florecent light bulb inches from his head on the top bunk, he never complained once about the light, it didnt bother him.

The answer we are all looking for? This kid was crazy. He pushed everyone away because he knew he was crazy. He knew that they would know so he kept them all away.

After a whole year of this he was feeling an ungoldly sence of indifference to this world. It probably didnt mean two **Filtered** to him to kill everyone then himself. He woke up and said, "Is it really going to matter if I go nuts today? What is my life worth anyway?"

This was probably a spur of the moment thing for him and he was so isolated and bizzarre in his head that he couldnt tell the difference between his own life and death.. So why did someone elses mean anything to him either?

[Fear Of The Duck]

I agree =with you 100% there. As a humorous quote from a movie said, "Guns don't kill people. *I* Kill people."

Before there were guns there were people with knives, bats, whatever else.. Whats next, are we going to ban household cleaners when they are used as explosives to kill people? Or ban glass if people start using it for shanks to stab people? People should look at the mental balance of the person wielding the weapon instead of the weapon itself. Identify and work towards the root cause, not some easy scapegoat like guns or video games.

It's pretty obvious by now, but I'm very much pro-guns. If there was an invasion of North America, states withlike Texas are the last place invaders would want to hit.

Exactly! Otherwise somebody should ban a friend of mine. He's a taekwondo master and can kill with his bare hands. BTW: he's a nice and peace-loving fella.

I can only imagine what the world would be like if everyone was armed 24/7.

Ever been to Ballyfermot?

[Saturnine]

Sorry bout that crazy double post thing folks!!! All though it you get the debug code, rest assured guys. Your post still posts..

My original point I was getting at in my original post that I never reached was this...

The lovers of ANTI-everything cannot cry this time.

The man wasnt playing grand theft auto or listening to Marilyn Manson...

They have no valid reasons to blame music or the media this time.. (for a change. They dont have anything to work with!!!)

but that doesnt mean they wont....

When they start ballin outta control in washington because of this, Im going to laugh.

You guys know that governments take advantage of terror to take more and more of your freedoms? Why? Because freedoms are a hinderance to control over you.

Why do you think the american gov turned a blind eye to 9/11? (Im a nut but Im not tacky enough to think that the government DID 9/11)

Because in the terror to follow, they had such a cult following...

Some people voted for bush this last time because they thought he could protect them from a boogeyman he created, and you best believe it was created to gather more power..

Since 9/11, the wartime mentality of, you MUST be patriot has lost its steam, (thank goodness, I thought we were about to burn the dixie chicks on the stake).

But during a majority of this window, this man and his boys did what they wanted while his staunchest supporters hid under his cloak in terror, drunken on his matchizmo because they couldnt come up with a more original idea than "In the Beginning". They had a good way of demonizing
their critics, we were too "Un patriotic to lead."

To everyone Ive ever argued with he forums on politics:

This buds for you:

*Suddenly the looney tunes theme begins out of nowhere!!!! A spotlight flys to the back of the gymnasium. Its Saturnine!!! And hes wearing one of those gold Liberace sparkle suits!! He has a big top hat and a cane!! This is strange, but Ive seen worse.. THE CROWD GOES WILD AS HE APPROACHES THE STAGE!!! He steps up to the mic. The lights dim and
looney toons fades out. NIN's : a Warm Place begins. He speaks:*

"As Reagan would say: We did it my friends. But what we couldnt do was save ourselves...

If you only knew how close we really came..

Then we would've needed a savior, but where is the savior?

Hes a traitor,

Hes a musician,

Hes an artist,

Hes in the Jail house now.

Our savior would have been illegal..

But we were saved by fate instead. Things are going to be ok!!

Something went our way!! Just this once!!!

The house of representitives and the senate are in good hands,

we wave at you from hollywood like queen elizabeth..

we are the future now.

Did you really think good sense would not prevail?

Your conservative ideaology has fossilized, and America's

gonna keep on diggin'

till your fully exposed for what you truly are..

We did it my friends.

We won.

Like the kid that won a golden ticket, then won a chocolate factory,
were flying high watching their tiny ass below..

Were going to get everything we ever dreamed of, and so are they.

because maybe a war on terror is not the will of God?

Maybe freedom is the will of god?

maybe he was beautiful enough to allow us to make our own choices in life?

Maybe he doesnt ally himself with the ones that make living tougher for the chosing?

Maybe you wont have a chance to rebuild?

You can bet your arse were winning the next election, and the one after that. You party is finished. Simply stated, we won because you blew it.
THINK PEOPLE THINK THINK THINK, if we pull out of Iraq (a battle that had no valid application to the war on terror, until we created a breeding ground for terrorists) now how is that going to increase terrorism? How is that a red signal of our weakness? You want to know why they are pissed? Because we are there... If we leave, there would be no reason to Jihad. They want us out.. We have caused them heart ache for ages with our policy and they do not like us. We have no purpose there.

It seems everyone is slowly coming to their senses. Your prophets just lied too much. You can only pull the wool card out and throw it into our eyes so much until we smell a rat..

We stand transfixed on this boogeyman, like the end of a scooby doo cartoon. We lift the helmet, the boogeyman is yourself.....

*Lights a giant cigar while the music dies. The looney toons theme begins yet again.. SATURNINE RUNS ACROSS THE STAGE!!! Amazing!! The crowd is drunken with delight!!! He slides across the floor a few times, does the Leprechan foot clapping thing, then he is pulled of the stage by a giant cane!!!*

Ladies and gents, exit stage right..

[urban assault]

Gee, isn't it funny how a discussion about the pro's & con's of gun control gets turned into yet another virulent anti Bush/Iraq war diatribe? How is it that everyone points fingers at Conservatives as being nutters, and whackjobs, while ignoring the seething hatred on the other side of the coin?

BTW, I have a carry permit, have carried guns for years and if that tragedy would have occurred near me? I would have done my level best to drop that shooter like a bad habit. Too bad that more folks on that campus could have had the opportunity to defend themselves when a situation like this comes up, but we wouldn't want that now would we?

Much better to die like sheep in a pen must be the thinking by Liberal goofs. Guess what... I'm a wolf who won't go out on my knees. Ever. My condolences to the families of the dead.

-urban

[Fear Of The Duck]

People should have the right to defend themselves and their property and the law should be on their side.

And on who's side is the law now? If an armed burglar breaks into my house my choice looks like this:
1. Get outta his way, let him rob me, beat me up, shoot me and let him do whatever he wants to do. Then call the gardai and my insurance company.
2. Defend myself, maybe even kill him and then spend some time in custody and battle in courts for the next few years cos his relatives will definitely sue me for what I did.

[Adnihilo]

guns are for those to lazy to learn self defence

i dont doubt less people would have died if people could carry guns
but alot less would have if he didnt have access to a gun in the first place

[The Xeno]

guns are for those to lazy to learn self defence

I wouldn't say that. There is a reason most martial-arts extend training to weapons... we aren't bullet-proof monks.

While I personally might choose bare-hands over a knife, I would never turn down a firearm, bo-staff or tonfa. Certainly, I would much rather my family have access to my handgun/carbine than my axe, knifes, etc. during a home invasion.

but alot less would have if he didnt have access to a gun in the first place

Indeed. But you would have to turn back the clock a long ways before he couldn't have gotten a gun.

Gee, isn't it funny how a discussion about the pro's & con's of gun control gets turned into yet another virulent anti Bush/Iraq war diatribe? How is it that everyone points fingers at Conservatives as being nutters, and whackjobs, while ignoring the seething hatred on the other side of the coin?

The nature of the beast - McCarthy, Lincoln, Adam's, Jackson, & FDR were all subjected to the same or simmilar cries. So hey, at least they’re fair.... sometimes even legit (in the case of Lincoln and FDR).

You guys know that governments take advantage of terror to take more and more of your freedoms? Why? Because freedoms are a hinderance to control over you.

Agreed;
But i'm a little busy right now, you see, we're gonna melt in 9 years... I gotta go vote green!
----------------
Fear can be vallid - certaintly the limiting of freedom by the goverment can be reasonable, neccesary, and legitamate. If our freedoms did not need limiting, we wouldn't have government.

He was a nut. Thats all there is too it. This case is off the wall. This man is not only the most prolific school shooter, he will be remembered as one of the most disturbed as well...

Indeed. No sarcasm, I agree 100% - this student was beyond deranged.


======
You are now welcome to createa topic on Iraq/America/Government fear tactics. But I don't see the correlation between shooter and Iraq ( Unless you are speaking of his Ishmael Ax tattoo?)
I'll delete/re-quote these last comments in the new thread if you create one.

But now.... we are returning to topic.

[Fear Of The Duck]

guns are for those to lazy to learn self defence

i dont doubt less people would have died if people could carry guns
but alot less would have if he didnt have access to a gun in the first place

everybody has access to a gun. i can go right now ask few ppl and i'll have a gun by tomorrow evening (provided i have enough money to buy it). but this would be illegal and it happens i'm a law abiding citizen. but ANYONE can get it if one wants. banning isn't gonna change this.

imho all that "ban guns" talk looks very similar to the prohibition in the states. good intension - bad results. that's what you'll get when you try to limit ppls freedom.

but there's one thing to this nobody's mentioned here: responsibility. this is what lots of ppl, especially young, lack.


btw more ppl dies in car accidents. should we ban cars as well?

[Saturnine]

BTW, I have a carry permit, have carried guns for years and if that tragedy would have occurred near me? I would have done my level best to drop that shooter like a bad habit. Too bad that more folks on that campus could have had the opportunity to defend themselves when a situation like this comes up, but we wouldn't want that now would we?

for real. A lot of oponents of anarchy argue that without law there would be no order. Guess what? Without law people would protect and serve themselves..

In all reality, if people could carry guns, his death toll would be 1 student.
He would have been taken out before he killed another, he may have asessed the risk of walking into a fully armed class room as well, so maybe he would have never killed a single student.

In all reality, if there was no law you wouldnt have chaos. The ones that decided to make it would get there ass blown away real fast by the ones who were sick of it. I

nstead they'd rather lock them away and charge us for their room and board. Then pay a cop to pull everyone over whos going one mile over the speeding limit to write tickets, making the city richer. Do we really need police guys? Common!!!!

Much better to die like sheep in a pen must be the thinking by Liberal goofs. Guess what... I'm a wolf who won't go out on my knees. Ever. My condolences to the families of the dead.
-urban

the libs dont want to crack down on the guns. Gun control is a conservative concept.

I am pro gun myself.

[Apadizamek]

what i don't get is why they didn't curb stomp him. I gotcha they were scared, but he shot 50 people, dozens got out. So their were at least what? 100 people in that building. If they had just run at him they coulda ripped him up, taken him alive and probably only lost what? a few number i would put it as, since he had two pistols with probably about 20 shots a piece, and giving time for a group surrounding him to reach him, 6-20, wounded i dunno if he would have killed them all.

[#?#]

what i don't get is why they didn't curb stomp him. I gotcha they were scared, but he shot 50 people, dozens got out. So their were at least what? 100 people in that building. If they had just run at him they coulda ripped him up, taken him alive and probably only lost what? a few number i would put it as, since he had two pistols with probably about 20 shots a piece, and giving time for a group surrounding him to reach him, 6-20, wounded i dunno if he would have killed them all.

Actually it was said that he shot 32-33 people;
And first reaction usually is self-preservation a.k.a GTHO.

[Apadizamek]

he shot 50, and killed 30.