VT Tragedy/Gun Control

[Londo Mollari]

to be perfectly honest if a person decides that they are going to commit murder and plan it, there is next to nothing that can be done about it, guns being legal or not. It would not be hard for a person to get into contact with someone who knows someone etc etc and get there hands on a gun. If the will to kill is there then they will kill.

It is interesting to hypothesis what ifs. But until you are actually in the situatution then you can't say what you would do. I would hope that if i heard the gun shots in another class and thought that the gunman was gonna come into my class i would stand to the side of the door with a heavy object and smash the guys brains in!

Blaming video games is ridiculous yes they do de-sensatize but if a person is of the mindstate that they would link games to murder then there pretty nuts

[Saturnine]

Blaming video games is ridiculous yes they do de-sensatize but if a person is of the mindstate that they would link games to murder then there pretty nuts

Dont hate the game, hate the playah for crying out loud!!!

[Lord_Grant]

First. I feel for the Families of teh dead VT students.
Secondly... I ALSO feel for people never mentioned...
The SHooters family......
How would YOU feel if someoen you considered a loved one went on a shooting rampage??? It would be truly heartwrenching knowing a loved one killed 32 people....
Next. I m HONORED to know that SGW has so many Pro-gun members.
---------------
GUN CONTROL.
First. One thing that (MAY) have lowered the casulties would have been ALLOWING guns on campus.
The shooter likely had them on Campus anyho for a long time. LEGALIZE it and allow lAWABIDING honest citizens the sem rights as a crazed killer.
Gun Control is the worst thing that could happen for law& order.
Guns will always be available from somewhere ,and all that is being done is tie citizens hands with nothing to defend themselves.
It has never done any good. England has been handguns (Mostly all guns also). And crime has INCREASED.
IRAQ. Terrorists have UNLIMITED access to weaponry. While a Citizen (From what i can gather... hasnt been a lot of info on the web that i found or seen on the news) who is caught with a 50Yr. old pistol for defence would be arrested. The law is ONLY helping terrorists. leaving thier prey undefended.

Among a number of polls taken... The thing that scares a scumbag away from robbing somone for money ,or breaking ,and entering.... That the owner might own a gun and confront him. Scumbags are like wolves..They prey on the sheep. Not the sheppards who could fight back.
A LOT of people may have been hurt/killed if it hadnt been for personal weapons..2 i know..... a Friend would have 90% likely been raped if she hadnt been carrying a .22 Revolver..... The other was a old man confronted by 3 teenagers carrying baseball bats and knives..... he pulled his .38 Special Carry-revolver ,and they backed off ,and were later apprehended by police......He wasnt carrying any money and (His perspective) they were only insinuating "Gramps/ Want teh **Filtered** beat outta you".THAT is a HUUGEE factor.
When Adolf Hitler took over Germany he banned a number of weapons.... Including "Military style" weaponry..... is that any differant than the poloticians today trying to remove "Bad guns" from us?
Did Crime rates dramatically drop when the Brady Bill was issued (Ban on magazine production above 10 rounds ,and "Assault" style rifles")?
NO.
If a enemy country was to take over teh USA (As unlikely as it is) I want teh ability to watch it carefully? Would YOU want to stand by empty handed? Hope not. In teh revoultionary war many of teh wepaons used by the American army were PRIVATLY owned.... Hmm.
ALSO.... The use of rifles by civilans makes sense for our military as well. Recruits joining the army ALREADY familiar with firearms increases thier usefullness as troops. Instead of trying to teach accuracy to people who have voted for gun-control. In the end the Rifleowning-soldier would be a better troop.
I doubt anyone heard of teh DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmenship).
It was meant as a way for civilans to purchase military surplus rifles ,and be ready in case of war.
MANY anti-gunners think we have no clue ,and ALL of us are complete nut-cases... WE ARENT. WE DO believe that there should be some restrictions. Minors as a example shouldnt be allwoed to PURCHASE firearms. They SHOULD be allowed to use them by thier gaurdians permission (As i am. I am 16 ,and i have unlimited access to dads fine guns. DO I go on killing spree's? No. They are a fine recreational tool.)
. Felons/mental patients shouldnt be allowed weapons. Anyone caught DOING gun-crime should be more punished. Tougher laws will reduce crime.
One of the more stupid gun-laws. (California.... Hmmm. Most of teh dumber of ALL LAWS originate there).
A number of cities (Or state. Cant remember) banned the new .500 S&W handgun. A 4 1/2 pound revolver that couldnt be concealed if they wanted to. They said it was too pwoerful for a handgun and was a dagner to the streets... if i had a choice i would WANT a scumbag carrying that. A cop could tell a mile away that he was carrying it. or that at least something wasnt right. Where a 9MM semi-auto could be concealed (And isnt outright banned like the above).
I mean.. It doesnt affect a lot the above law. It is a EXAMPLE OF STUPID LAWS.
HAIL THE 2nd AMENDMENT!!!!!!
P.S. Sorry for the long rant.... jsut had a argument with a Gun-control guy and needed to vent.

[Grand Admiral Martin]

I can only imagine what the world would be like if everyone was armed 24/7.

Ever been to Ballyfermot? [/quote]

never stopped in it lol

[Capo]

You sicken me. First: allowing guns on school campuses? What a magical pile of novajo horse****. If they did that, even more shootings would have happened some time ago. Plus its dangerous. Does accidental discharge mean anything to you?

yes, terrorists have access to firearms. Especially in parts of africa, where 1 in 100o peopel are kileld by weapons.

I didnt want to say this, but whats all this enemy country **Filtered**? (there you go spacey - I didnt mask it) The US is the most powerful country in the world. Nobody except russia could take it over alone, and I guarantee you thats not the people youre afraid of. terrorists kill less people a year than hunger does in 8 hours, so get over your patriotic **Filtered** and go fill some mouths. But I bet you wouldnt, since they arent american lives, right? less valuable? Hiroshima happened to save american lives because the prisdent valued them over the japanese lives. Thousands of americans were saved, but over eighty thousand japanese citizens (not soldiers) died. This is another example, but not quite that severe.

MOST OF ALL, I DONT AGREE WITH CHILDREN HAVING WEAPONS. Thats complete BS. kids dont need to know about guns to protect themselves. It isn't like the world is full of bad people - less than 5%% have comitted a crime worse than theft over 1000$. Arming kids? are you off your **Filtered** rocker? YOU ARE MAKING CHILD SOLDIERS. Thats illegal in north america, isnt it? But if you follow the specific guidelines, you can still teach kids about weapons. THE LAW ISN'T ALWAYS RIGHT.

and the .500 S&W handgun? if its so big a cop could notice it, they wouldnt be out in the open. Theyd use it because it scares the **Filtered** out of people. Its like walking into a bank with a back full of C4 - it scares people. Its a weapon that you dont want people carrying around, even if there licensed.

A stupid law? That stupid law was put in place by peopel a lot smarter and a lot more mature than you. Im sure they had a better reason that it was good than your reason that it was a "stupid law".

AND: you cant allow certain people guns and others not, even if they're not mentally stable. If you have a problem with this then you better say goodbye to freedom, because like it or not, it gives rights to EVERYONE.

The use of rifles by civilans makes sense for our military as well. Recruits joining the army ALREADY familiar with firearms increases thier usefullness as troops.

What a good idea. Anyone who read my post on T&T when I just started using the forums (war on humanity) will know that the US spent $581 Billion on there military 2 years ago. Canada spent $1 billion. The worst case of terrorism in our country only caused one death (the october crisis), and that was way back when trudea was prime minister. your freedoms fine m8, dont worry.

We dont want to hear about your republican views to solve the problem, because theyve already proven wrong. Unemployment rates have mroe than doubled sicne bush's presidency started between 6 and 7 years ago, and crime rates have increased by almsot 14%.

Excuse the long post, but it was needed. I now have 67 pages in my book (if you remember from my other post - which I requested be closed). I might post them here soon. They have all been edited with the suggestions made, and I thank whoever posted there for it again. It is much less abrupt than before.

[urban assault]

I was in a large city today in Oregon. I went to several businesses, a medical testing facility, and a restaurant for lunch. I spoke with quite a few people, drove thru much heavy traffic, and generally conducted myself like I normally do. All this occurred while I was carrying a full-sized stainless Para-Ordnance P14-45 in a hip holster. I also had two spare magazines with me on my belt. The gun holds 13 45. caliber bullets, plus one in the chamber, and with what is in the spare magazines, I had 40 rounds of ammunition available.

Oddly enough for all this firepower, I never killed or threatened anyone or even thought of doing so. There were no road rage incidents, I never drew my weapon, there were no frightened people scared that I might kill them.

What there WAS, was my confidence that if someone tried to hurt me, or kill me, or hurt and kill other peaceable people in my presence, I had the means to at least fight back with more than harsh language, which is just about all the VT students had to use for defense because of the "civilized" actions of their state legislature, and the University itself.

A firearm doesn't fix every problem, it doesn't make you a Rambo, and it won't do anything lethal unless YOU squeeze the trigger. What it is, is a tool that when used properly like I used it today, gives me a feeling of comfort & safety.

BTW, can you guess where my handgun was made? You guessed it... Canada!

-urban

[Capo]

Massive amounts of weapons are made in canada. im stil ltrying to figure out why there are more murders in the US but near the same weapons per hosuehold in Canada. I never said Canada was any better, only used it for comparison.

Have you ever had to use your weapon for self defence?

[Come_Forth]

Why would you need 40 rounds? I think that the only guns that should be legal are guns that are normally used for hunting.

[Capo]

For sure. The world doesn't need m16s or ak47s or handguns.

I wondered if you ever used your weapon for self defence - i havent. I dont own a weapon. I live near toronto and i go out there every couple weeks and I've never fealt threatened. Now, were only a short 4 hour boat ride across lake ontario to new york state, with not many coast guards in between. And we're only an 8 hour drive from detroit, which has the highest crime in all of the US. Only a 7 hour drive or so from montreal, where the la cosa nostre resides. I dont carry a weapon. Im not in the dark, ive used weapons before. They should be for hunting only. I feel secure enough in a city with 2 million people or more, and I have no weapon.

[urban assault]

Capo, a man who was car prowling in my apartment complex late one night confronted me as I was getting home from work. Asked if I was following him, I replied that I was just heading to my place. He said that was a good idea, because people who followed him got killed. As he said that, he reached into his jacket for something.

I raised the Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum snubby that I had retrieved from MY jacket as soon as I saw what this guy was doing. I aimed for his center mass, told him that if anything other than his hand came out I would kill him where he stood. No hesitation. He left whatever IT was, in his pocket. Then he ran away very quickly. I called the Police and filled out a report. I am confident that he was crazy enough that he would have tried to hurt, or kill me over absolutely nothing if I would have been unarmed.

The second time was at my Bouncing gig. I asked a guy to leave the parking lot because he was fighting with his girlfriend. He got very quiet, and lifted up his shirt to display a large-caliber handgun. I turned so I presented less of a target, and so that he could see that while we were talking I was holding my .45 at my side. I said "I have one too". He left after making a couple more threats.

I called the Police, filled out a report, and also made a note in the clubs nightly incident report. Both times I was lucky enough that I didn't have to take a life, but it is my basic human right to defend myself if needed.

It is all OUR basic human right, but most of us have forgotten that.
I have not.

-urban

[Grand Admiral Martin]

when safety and security is gauranteed by the state(any state not just US) then the need for being armed in anyway will no longer be necessary. until this day occures everyone should be allowed to do what they see fit to protect those they love and the things they own. i would rather shoot dead the criminal than have him go to jail.

and as for only allowing hunting weapons, do they not kill ppl? i didnt think shotguns couldnt kill a person.

[Come_Forth]

when safety and security is gauranteed by the state(any state not just US) then the need for being armed in anyway will no longer be necessary. until this day occures everyone should be allowed to do what they see fit to protect those they love and the things they own. i would rather shoot dead the criminal than have him go to jail.

and as for only allowing hunting weapons, do they not kill ppl? i didnt think shotguns couldnt kill a person.

There is a huge difference between a machine gun and a shotgun, and I believe that only break action shotguns should be allowed.

[urban assault]

Come forth, I might never need 40 rounds to defend myself or others, but if the day ever comes that I DO need them, I would rather have them on me than wishing I hadn't left them on my dresser.

I also own an FAL, which is a military-style, 20/30 round box fed long rifle in .308 caliber, and has more dynamic impact than either an AR15/M16, or an AK47. It is semi-automatic only, and has been used for target shooting and taking a couple deer. It has the capability to lay down devastating firepower if needed, but it never does. It sits in my closet until I want to take it out for a shooting trip. It is perfectly safe, and has never been used in a violent manner by me. Nor will it be, unless I ever have to defend myself or others.

This is the point that gun-control advocates just don't seem to get. The overwhelmingly VAST majority of guns are never used for anything but target shooting. I own four guns, my wife owns one, both my parent own handguns, and my dad has a scoped hunting rifle. My mom has a carry permit like myself, and I helped her pick the handgun she liked the most.

When more restrictive laws are passed, it only affects the legal gun owners like myself and my family, not the criminals at large. That is why they are criminals in the first place. Firearms are a kind of technology that has been around for hundreds of years, there would be no way to eradicate the knowledge of how to create more of them. I could build a gun if needed.

So more laws are passed, further affecting what I and others perceive is how I need to defend ourselves, and the criminals, who should have been the target of the laws in the first place, laugh in glee. Doesn't make any sense.

-urban

[Capo]

Lupara: An italian word referring to a sawed off shotgun or short-barrelled shotgun. used by the mafia throughout history.

Shotguns do kill people. However, if it was illegal to manufacture weapons for public use, crime would dissappear except with kinves etc., or illegally made weapons. its awfully hard to hide a place to make all the parts for weapons, not worth it for small crimes.

have you ever had to shoto a criminal dead? I doubt it. It seems to be a valid excuse though. If you are unfortunate enoiugh to come across a criminal, they generally aren't murderers. Thats for movies mate, so come join the rest of us in RL. We live fine withotu weapons. But go, and feel safe in your tight as **Filtered** weapon wielding community. The difference between Canada and the US? Canada has mainly hunting weapons and the US has them for self defence. Please note: The us rate of homocide with guns is about 35% higher than in Canada.

If you would stop being so arrogant and admit that weapons are causign the problem, the problem might not exist. People fall in love with their guns though. I bet you would have a hard time parting with it. Feel insecure when you go take a #2 without your gun? You should. almost 35% of all murders happen in the victims house. Might want to buy an ass strap for your gun.

i also own an FAL

It is safe...

This is what I know about the FAL: It is a heavy reliable weapon used in many militaries. It rivals the M16 in reliablility and surpasses it in all other areas. It is used by many militaries because of these

You just said that, quote unquote, "it is safe". Can you explain this to me? A weapon, no matter where or when is never safe unless its in pieces.

here we have clear evidence of the left wing mind. "i own an FAL military rifle"

but dont worry, "it is safe"

And urban, you know it was those other peoples right to have weapons as well? If you take the right away from everybody, then everybody will be relatively safe from one another. Sure, they had guns. But so did you, and that makes you jsut as dangerous as them; whether you intend to use it criminally or not isn't a factor.

I have a question, so please answer it. What would you do if you saw something like that again and you shot somebody? You just ended another persons life. And it gets worse; that person was innocent. You just shot an innocent man who was enraged because his girlfriend was cheating on him. The mans family would like to meet you. What do you say to them?

[Saturnine]

Capo, a man who was car prowling in my apartment complex late one night confronted me as I was getting home from work. Asked if I was following him, I replied that I was just heading to my place. He said that was a good idea, because people who followed him got killed. As he said that, he reached into his jacket for something.

I raised the Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum snubby that I had retrieved from MY jacket as soon as I saw what this guy was doing. I aimed for his center mass, told him that if anything other than his hand came out I would kill him where he stood. No hesitation. He left whatever IT was, in his pocket. Then he ran away very quickly. I called the Police and filled out a report. I am confident that he was crazy enough that he would have tried to hurt, or kill me over absolutely nothing if I would have been unarmed.

The second time was at my Bouncing gig. I asked a guy to leave the parking lot because he was fighting with his girlfriend. He got very quiet, and lifted up his shirt to display a large-caliber handgun. I turned so I presented less of a target, and so that he could see that while we were talking I was holding my .45 at my side. I said "I have one too". He left after making a couple more threats.

I called the Police, filled out a report, and also made a note in the clubs nightly incident report. Both times I was lucky enough that I didn't have to take a life, but it is my basic human right to defend myself if needed.

It is all OUR basic human right, but most of us have forgotten that.
I have not.

-urban

I read your post then looked at your screen name. Irony at its finest. LOL!!

No offense, you rock man..

Capo.

There are a lot of crazy in this country. In madison county AR, people get killed because they are not white, in certain parts of an inner city a person can get killed because they are. We have a legacy of indifference here, to the law and eachother.

Forgive me for sounding too comunist here,
but the one thing these two camps have in common are poverty.

We live in the capital of capitalism.

People are pissed, overworked, overstressed, (oh, we have starving people here too!) We dont trust our government, our government doesnt trust us, the family is eroding, we are as affraid of the paranoid soul beside us that is as paranoid as us, but in the end Urban Assult reigned supreme. Cuz hes a real man of genious (anyone remember the budweiser radio commercials?)

Add this to the fact that we are booming in population, construction, buisness growth. People are being stuffed in every corner like sardines.
They are going mad, they are suffocating on the exhaled breath of another. Think of the rural areas as holes in a box. We're roaches breeding and filling the box with our own production of eachother. The higher we pile up, the less holes in will be in that box to let in the air..

This country has never been sane the end is nigh and Were gonna keep on a truckin...

As a fair compromise, teachers trained to use firearms should qualify for a raise in pay. They want more money? Make em "multi-functional".

I am just ranting now, so off I go

*do.... dup.... deet!!!*

(^^Its that little synth riff that plays between each child's book review on Reading Rainbow.)