Name colours...

[Vendetta]

Spacey it is not the colors in themselves that say "these peoples posts are better than yours" or "these people deserve more respect than you" etc etc. It is the STATEMENT made by those colors.

What I ask you is, if, as you say, these people dont infact post "better" than others, and dont deserve anymore respect than other forum users or anything like that. Then WHY do they have thier own group and colors in the first place? If there is nothing extrodinarily outstanding about them to sepereate them from the rest of us then what is the point? Obviously there was some form "upper class members" integrated into this whole idea.

Regardless of what you say, or think, or intended. This seperation, as it is just that, a seperation of members into a class group, sends across nothing but "Im better than you" however un/intentional it may be.

And as such of course there will be people who dont like. Personally I couldnt care less, however just because I dont care dosnt mean I cant see it for what it is, or ended up being. Infact it likely gives me a better understanding on the matter.

That said, I hope to never be in a "praise me" group, if any group it would be the following.

And I formally announce the formation of the attitude group. We have bad manners, and say what we like regardless of outcome. And we'd like orange please.

If i were to be in any group it would be that one

[S T I]

Spacey it is not the colors in themselves that say "these peoples posts are better than yours" or "these people deserve more respect than you" etc etc. It is the STATEMENT made by those colors.

What I ask you is, if, as you say, these people dont infact post "better" than others, and dont deserve anymore respect than other forum users or anything like that. Then WHY do they have thier own group and colors in the first place? If there is nothing extrodinarily outstanding about them to sepereate them from the rest of us then what is the point? Obviously there was some form "upper class members" integrated into this whole idea.

Regardless of what you say, or think, or intended. This seperation, as it is just that, a seperation of members into a class group, sends across nothing but "Im better than you" however un/intentional it may be.

And as such of course there will be people who dont like. Personally I couldnt care less, however just because I dont care dosnt mean I cant see it for what it is, or ended up being. Infact it likely gives me a better understanding on the matter.

That said, I hope to never be in a "praise me" group, if any group it would be the following.

And I formally announce the formation of the attitude group. We have bad manners, and say what we like regardless of outcome. And we'd like orange please.

If i were to be in any group it would be that one

I see what you are saying, but it is down to the person who is looking, who is saying "they think they are better".

I could use loads of examples to show this but i am sure you can think of many.

If it helps in any way is this not good for the forum, the people who have the colours must think about how they respond, some people may learn from how others respond, yes there are many who deserve respect(but have no colour), but this may highlight this.

don't put it down before it has a chance, i have noticed a marked improvement in respect in the forum & many will have noticed people returning to it.

but all this imo as above was yours.

[PSICOLIX]

to complete STI post, ITS A OPEN GROUP you just have to aply...

To me 95% players of that group are a bunch of hipocrates...

"pledge to honour their enemies, desist from posting abusive posts on the forums, minimize swearing, and in general work on building the community into a good one." you Just toke 90% of the Fun in Wars...

To me peaple that dseve Respect are players that when in a war, they provoke, swear, Mock, and Have Fun, than AFTER its done have the maturity to let go and maybe development some friendship... Only thing unaceptable to me is personal stuff, the rest as much better.

You say "i'm on Respect group" i say you are a forum pupet...

[Vendetta]

to complete STI post, ITS A OPEN GROUP you just have to aply...

Yes but applying screams that you want recognition and as such be recognised as being better than the rest. Being nominated or something thats 1 thing. But applying is a whole other story. Now im sure that people who applied werent necisarily doing so under that pretence, but you must akgnowledge that at the least it comes with an element of wanting recognition.

Eitherway I could be Forum and still not want to apply to this group. Perhaps because i dont want to have my posts unofficially restricted due to what the group "stands for".

[Spacey]

In this post I argue a point and counter a general way of thinking in this thread. I mean no disrespect or direct it to anyone person, but wish to illustrate a flaw in thinking or to find one in my own.

Spacey it is not the colors in themselves that say "these peoples posts are better than yours" or "these people deserve more respect than you" etc etc. It is the STATEMENT made by those colors.

What I ask you is, if, as you say, these people dont infact post "better" than others, and dont deserve anymore respect than other forum users or anything like that. Then WHY do they have thier own group and colors in the first place? If there is nothing extrodinarily outstanding about them to sepereate them from the rest of us then what is the point? Obviously there was some form "upper class members" integrated into this whole idea.

Regardless of what you say, or think, or intended. This seperation, as it is just that, a seperation of members into a class group, sends across nothing but "Im better than you" however un/intentional it may be.

And as such of course there will be people who dont like. Personally I couldnt care less, however just because I dont care dosnt mean I cant see it for what it is, or ended up being. Infact it likely gives me a better understanding on the matter.

That said, I hope to never be in a "praise me" group, if any group it would be the following.

And I formally announce the formation of the attitude group. We have bad manners, and say what we like regardless of outcome. And we'd like orange please.

If i were to be in any group it would be that one

Thanks for your reply Vendetta, and your well through out post.

In fact that is not what the group is saying. We are not saying we deserve more respect than others. That is the opposite to what we are saying. We are posting (or trying to post) with respect and encouraging others to do so. You don;t need to be a member to do this, it just a place for people to discuss way to do it and a place to identify with those who feel the same way (as would like to be a part of the group).

The statement by the colours make no other statements from that of an alliance sig or avvy. What the respect group only asks is that you post respectfully on the forum and treat other the way you wish to be treated. There is not post count requirement, or army size, or ability to mass someone. It is just the notion of posting respectfully and treating others the way you wish to be treated. The pledge is mainly to oneself. I or other leaders step in when post are disrespectful or there is something that concerns us.

Yes there are problems with the group. Yes members may have not posted respectfully, but keep in mind, up until recently I was the only one handling the logistics of the group including reading posts and accepting members to name a couple. The repost post function is available and members know how they should respond to people in posts and in the game.

I am saying that members of the group are not any better than anyone else. Being a member of the group affords no special treatment. I am saying that the colour exists for members because they are a part of a group that allows the use of colour in their name on this version of phpBB. I have asked the question to mods if other groups will be afforded the opportunity to have their own colour, if they are not I could understand how this would be exclusionary, but no more than an alliance tag.

You mention colours as your arguement. To counter this I will ask you about symbols. Why is it unacceptable for a non Omega members to wear an avvy or sig that contain the Greek letter? There is copyright for the Greek letter, yet some people are allowed to have it and other not, why? I would argue that all members of this forum should be allowed, without fear of reprisal or massing, to wear the symbol as they see fit. To not do so is exclusionary and it is elitist to say that some members of this forum can wear a letter of the Greek alphabet and other not. Obviously, we values members of this group more than others to say that it's ok for them to wear a letter of the alphabet and others are not allowed to.

Regardless of what you say it is separation. The simple fact of wearing a letter in ones sig or avvy is being used to separate members. How is is possible to say that one letter can be used by a group and not by another? It is a letter.

Do see my point? If you can argue that a Greek letter should be used by all members then I can see how a colour (used as a symbol of membership like a letter in the Greek alphabet or something else) could be exclusionary.

If the point is that no group should have a colour outside of mods, than that is another point (which you have not argued) and one that I have asked to the mods.

to complete STI post, ITS A OPEN GROUP you just have to aply...

Yes but applying screams that you want recognition and as such be recognised as being better than the rest. Being nominated or something thats 1 thing. But applying is a whole other story. Now im sure that people who applied werent necisarily doing so under that pretence, but you must akgnowledge that at the least it comes with an element of wanting recognition.

Eitherway I could be Forum and still not want to apply to this group. Perhaps because i dont want to have my posts unofficially restricted due to what the group "stands for".

being nominated is more elitist than a person applying. Application to a group means that everyone can be a part of it. It doesn't rely on a few members to determine who is allowed.

The only restriction is that members are to post respectfully. As it has been commented... sometime people post disrespectfully and they should not be a a group for respect.

[S T I]

to complete STI post, ITS A OPEN GROUP you just have to aply...

To me 95% players of that group are a bunch of hipocrates...

"pledge to honour their enemies, desist from posting abusive posts on the forums, minimize swearing, and in general work on building the community into a good one." you Just toke 90% of the Fun in Wars...

To me peaple that dseve Respect are players that when in a war, they provoke, swear, Mock, and Have Fun, than AFTER its done have the maturity to let go and maybe development some friendship... Only thing unaceptable to me is personal stuff, the rest as much better.

You say "i'm on Respect group" i say you are a forum pupet...

where does it say you can not do all of what you said, well it does say minimize swearing, but that just means not as much. so hell yes do all the rest i know i would be doing it & have done.

see i agree with everything you say, especially the personal stuff, but its the way we look at it.

[S T I]

to complete STI post, ITS A OPEN GROUP you just have to aply...

Yes but applying screams that you want recognition and as such be recognised as being better than the rest. Being nominated or something thats 1 thing. But applying is a whole other story. Now im sure that people who applied werent necisarily doing so under that pretence, but you must akgnowledge that at the least it comes with an element of wanting recognition.

Eitherway I could be Forum and still not want to apply to this group. Perhaps because i dont want to have my posts unofficially restricted due to what the group "stands for".

comes down to the point of how we look at things again & yes i think you are right for some there is an element of wanting recognition, but they now have to live up to this

[Spacey]

I wonder about all the new applicants to the respect group too. DO they really want to be a part of it, or do they want the userbar and colour?

There is no way for me to really tell aside from asking them and reading past posts. If they haven't posted respectfully yesterday they probably won't do it tomorrow. The process isn;t perfect, but since when was anything with human beings supposed to be perfect.

No I'm Spacey

No. S T I has his own account. We are not game multis. Spacey has only one account, and it is name accordingly. If someone wishes to mass, direct the misplaced anger and aggression there.

[Vendetta]

Sorry if this isnt perfect spacey but It is 2am and im heading off to bed soon, And I kinda fogot some of what you posted.

Anyway. As you say the group may not be "saying" anything and sure enough I guess you could say (atleast to the members) that it is very much like a group of people in regular society with similar interest. That may be all well and good. But due to human nature, im afraid that 95% of the time it will not come across as such.

As for the alliance tag point. Alliance tags are to symbolise where your loyalties IN GAME lie, they have nothing to do with your person, your attitude, your out looks, opinions or anything like that, as this, in a way, does.

at the most an alliance tag will seperate you into how good, or big you may be in game. However that is usually as far as it will go, it dosnt compare you to the rest of the comunity. Atleast not how this does.

And sure why not, anyone should be able to use whatever letters they want, there is a PLAYER called Omega. I lead an alliance called omega in another game before SGW existed. Couldnt care less who uses what for alliances names and symbols.

And going along with alliance tags, can these people not simply put a banner in thier forum sig (as some have?), because as you say, the group is more a personal statement and shouldnt a personal statement be decided by that person? not by others? If people with to try and lead by example then they can chuck the banner in thier sig and example away. Its dosnt call for an entirely different usergroup.

Anyways, i kinda lost where I was at a couple times, and i just realised im starving So ima head off to bed in a minuit. Hope it makes sence

[S T I]

what about this then, if i was made admin mod/ game mod plus respect




S T I

[MajorLeeHurts]

If I may....... Color is a very personal issue. I would not be so inclined to join any group or apply for a color. I appreciate and support the intention of "Respect" . Although It would be nice if there were more creative options within the user control panel. So that this would be a creative choice not a political one.


PROPS to Admin for forum format

[iKon]

In this post I argue a point and counter a general way of thinking in this thread. I mean no disrespect or direct it to anyone person, but wish to illustrate a flaw in thinking or to find one in my own.

In fact that is not what the group is saying. We are not saying we deserve more respect than others. That is the opposite to what we are saying. We are posting (or trying to post) with respect and encouraging others to do so. You don't need to be a member to do this, it just a place for people to discuss way to do it and a place to identify with those who feel the same way (as would like to be a part of the group).

But the project has already failed, as some members who've joined have more than a little bit of a superiority complex, and continually practice a hypocritical nature in their regard to others. Let us us, as an example, the malicious nature of robe, or the recent public behaviour of teal'auc towards a fellow moderator, no less, Geisha. I am by no means saying that I or Geisha are perfect; we are both very similar in the respect that we say what we feel, and what we feel sometimes upsets people; however, we are not held to a declaration of principles we're failing miserably to uphold - thereby in their behaviour alone, the whole meaning and purpose of your respect group fails unendingly as it serves no purpose but to garner a complete lack of respect for the entire group on the part of the community.

The statement by the colours make no other statements from that of an alliance sig or avvy. What the respect group only asks is that you post respectfully on the forum and treat other the way you wish to be treated. There is not post count requirement, or army size, or ability to mass someone. It is just the notion of posting respectfully and treating others the way you wish to be treated. The pledge is mainly to oneself. I or other leaders step in when post are disrespectful or there is something that concerns us.

And then what? Group therapy, a hug session and trust that the matter has been resolved until the very next time they persist on verbally abusing a member of the community? It hardly comes under the same category as an alliance tag, because I don't know of any alliance that really specifically asks you to use a manner and conduct in any forum you frequent.

Yes there are problems with the group. Yes members may have not posted respectfully, but keep in mind, up until recently I was the only one handling the logistics of the group including reading posts and accepting members to name a couple. The repost post function is available and members know how they should respond to people in posts and in the game.

Yes - and because some members in the groups are consistently guilty of moderator bias (and in this, please understand that I in no way include you), it gets ignored and disregarded. I personally have filed a complaint against a member of the supermod team for a completely valid reason, who also happens to be a part of your group, and absolutely nothing is being done about it.

I am saying that members of the group are not any better than anyone else. Being a member of the group affords no special treatment. I am saying that the colour exists for members because they are a part of a group that allows the use of colour in their name on this version of phpBB. I have asked the question to mods if other groups will be afforded the opportunity to have their own colour, if they are not I could understand how this would be exclusionary, but no more than an alliance tag.

You may not be, but some members of the group walk around with what equates to intellectual snobbery, when in fact they have no real right to. Your group, I'm afraid to say has already lost its vision IMHO.

You mention colours as your arguement. To counter this I will ask you about symbols. Why is it unacceptable for a non Omega members to wear an avvy or sig that contain the Greek letter? There is copyright for the Greek letter, yet some people are allowed to have it and other not, why? I would argue that all members of this forum should be allowed, without fear of reprisal or massing, to wear the symbol as they see fit. To not do so is exclusionary and it is elitist to say that some members of this forum can wear a letter of the Greek alphabet and other not. Obviously, we values members of this group more than others to say that it's ok for them to wear a letter of the alphabet and others are not allowed to.

I shall disprove this point by wearing a greek alphabet tag in my next tag. Henceforth I shall revert to my previous name of theta sigma.

Regardless of what you say it is separation. The simple fact of wearing a letter in ones sig or avvy is being used to separate members. How is is possible to say that one letter can be used by a group and not by another? It is a letter.

Again, invalid argument, as omega and alpha (and now pi) really only get upset when people use those symbols, because by and large Omega are made targets to look bad - would you like me to go around wearing a respect tag and go full tilt with my usual manner when I decide I dislike a person? No. I thought not, because it gives your group a bad image.

Do see my point? If you can argue that a Greek letter should be used by all members then I can see how a colour (used as a symbol of membership like a letter in the Greek alphabet or something else) could be exclusionary.

I'm sorry my friend, but I think you're overcomplicating your argument.

If the point is that no group should have a colour outside of mods, than that is another point (which you have not argued) and one that I have asked to the mods.

I have, when I stated that the respect group was an unneccessary addition to the forum legend. It sends out the wrong image that you have some kind of authority other than your own morals. Of course, the fact that there are a number of moderators there that allow you to force said morals upon the gaming populus if you so desired...

Yes but applying screams that you want recognition and as such be recognised as being better than the rest. Being nominated or something thats 1 thing. But applying is a whole other story. Now im sure that people who applied werent necisarily doing so under that pretence, but you must akgnowledge that at the least it comes with an element of wanting recognition.

But why can't you lead by example in a quiet manner? Loud people never amount to anything; it's the quiet view that change thought and affect change. Ghandi proved that conclusively. As did Einstein. And Hawking.

Eitherway I could be Forum and still not want to apply to this group. Perhaps because i dont want to have my posts unofficially restricted due to what the group "stands for".being nominated is more elitist than a person applying. Application to a group means that everyone can be a part of it. It doesn't rely on a few members to determine who is allowed.

But then, why do you need a group to say you're going to be good boys and girls? It's almost as inane in appearance as holding hands to go to the toilet when you're a 30 year old grown man.

The only restriction is that members are to post respectfully. As it has been commented... sometime people post disrespectfully and they should not be a a group for respect.

Are they being removed? Or are you just going to prove to me that the group has no real purpose but an elitist way of further excluding yourself from the community?

[Spacey]

...that it is very much like a group of people in regular society with similar interest. That may be all well and good. But due to human nature, im afraid that 95% of the time it will not come across as such.

As for the alliance tag point. Alliance tags are to symbolise where your loyalties IN GAME lie, they have nothing to do with your person, your attitude, your out looks, opinions or anything like that, as this, in a way, does.

at the most an alliance tag will seperate you into how good, or big you may be in game. However that is usually as far as it will go, it dosnt compare you to the rest of the comunity. Atleast not how this does.

And sure why not, anyone should be able to use whatever letters they want, there is a PLAYER called Omega. I lead an alliance called omega in another game before SGW existed. Couldnt care less who uses what for alliances names and symbols.

Get some sleep. It is important. This thread will be here in the morning.

That is how it may come across, but we are dispelling that myth now, aren't we.

Aliance tags are used to symbolize what you discussed, but they also symbolize where your loyalties on this forum are as well. Are you suggesting that members of the same alliance don't share the same ideals or values? I would say that members of alliances do share the same ideals and values, attitude, and outlooks...for the game like respect group members. We are not trying to change the world, but hope to post respectfully on the forum and hope that it seems into the way others post and how the game is played.

Alliance tags on the forum do compare you to the rest of the community. It is there for everyone to see. How many times have you seen a thread where a big alliance slags and destroys a smaller one and they do it just because they are big. There is a comparison on the forum with alliances and members. I have yet to met someone in the big alliances who will say that their alliance is not the best and their members are not the best. The value of an alliance is seen in it members. The forum already associated value to alliances and members. If not, why can't someone with a 500 army size and 100 total power get into BWP, or omega? The separation that people say exists here is one that is perceived not one that actually exists, as it does in alliances. To this the respect group is more open and transparent than alliances.

And going along with alliance tags, can these people not simply put a banner in thier forum sig (as some have?), because as you say, the group is more a personal statement and shouldnt a personal statement be decided by that person? not by others? If people with to try and lead by example then they can chuck the banner in thier sig and example away. Its dosnt call for an entirely different usergroup.

I don't really understand this part. Members can have a userbar if they wish, but there is not requirement to have one. There is not intention or action to force anyone to do anything or to have a userbar or colour. If they don't want a colour they don't have to have one, and userbar the same. I took it upon myself to hire someone to create a userbar and offered it to members. It is not a requirement. I have paid for a commonly used userbar, and continue to pay for it when one is customized.

The purpose of this group (upon creation many moons ago... Oct.-Nov/06) was to provide a place for people to chat and to discuss things they they could do to change the forum to a great thing, in light of what was seen to be happening. The usergroup started out with 80 + members, which dropped to 30 + recently. There has been an huge influx of applicants after seeing the userbar and now the colour, hopefully for people who believe in the group rather than the bar and colour.

I hope the group will not exist in the future. I hope that members of the community will feel that there is not need for a group and we all are as respectful as possible...but we're not there yet. Members feel there is a need for the group, and so it exists.

[MajorLeeHurts]

So let me understand you have created an alliance within the forum that has the authority to entice with and assign color, and added a special user bar on the forum. You can also accept or deny applicants based behavior................... All are welcome
Pass me the purple Koolaid

[vinny d]

We are not elite. We are not on an ego trip. We do not think we are better than you.

The color is meant to show that we are members of the respect group. It is also much easier for moderaters to kick users who break the pledge of the respect group.

Up until we had this color no one complained about this group. Once we got the green color we have been turned into elitists. You are judging us based on a color and not because of our actions.