Over-sensitivity: Take Four

[The Xeno]

Alright... things became horribly muddled.
This has been an issue for four threads - I lack the ego to really hope for any perfect resolution.
For my narcissistic side however, I would like to enlighten myself a little, and that will take some dumbing down. Hence:

The issues that I have seen raised are:

• That:
• There is a general trend on the forum towards over-sensitivity.
• The respect group serves no purpose.
• The respect group is contributing (in part) towards the over-sensitive slide.

And the proposals to deal with those (to fix a part of or to fix the whole mess/perceived mess) have been:

• Remove the color in the respect group's title. (Go [url=]here to debate)
• start a counter-respect-movement-movement (I'll dig the charter up)
• Remove the respect group
• Remove the forum rules pertaining to respect (e.g. #17)
• Adjust the forum rules pertaining to respect (e.g. #7)

---------------------------------


I just wanted to be clear in my own mind, as to the issues. Let me be clear: This is not about personalities or actions not directly related to the topics/issues - it is not about Geisha, and it is not about Spacey.
I want this clean, or there will be some mod abuse in the form of my aching fingers as I give them tendinitis punching the delete and edit buttons.


===========================

I'm posting below:

[The Xeno]

Is there a general trend on the forum towards over-sensitivity?

Generally I'd say yes. This isn't the forum of way back, where you couldn't open a thread without getting lashed by obscenities - harmless verbalizing or no, I felt the general community was a negative one with a great deal of antagonistic back-and-forth going on.

Fast forward, I did believe (until this flared up ) that the community was much improved. We've got a respect group, there is far less obscenity, the most troubling reports are of names and of users that normally skirt the rules - yes, on the whole I see a lot less of the bickering and cursing.

What backbiting goes on, is passive aggressive (which I'll admit, can be more infuriating that out and out insults).
--------------------------------

Now, although we may be sliding towards over-sensitivity - I don't think we'll reach it - the two 'problems' that led to the initial thread about this did not strike me as numerically alarming, or alarming via circumstance and content.

More importantly, I did not see the trend on the forums either. What I saw, where the people who formerly fought with cursing and insults, now found ways to annoy each other by whining about respect. On the whole however, such bickering did not spill over to the masses like the previous bouts of 'Your mother!'.

I see a slide, but it's not radical enough to start circling the wagons - though it is enough to keep us punting the community in the direction we wish it to go with small nudges.

[killtacular]

I want to say this subject is getting way over rated. The only reason people talk to each other like this is because the dont know each other and it makes it much easier to say what you want to someone.

[Lore]

A few of my own points. (no one elses)

In my opinion the respect group is nothing more then a group of people who were sick of the way the forum was going and chose to make a difference.


I joined with the idea that no matter how vulgur, incensative, or childish my opponent acted that I would not stoop to their level. I show respect even when it is not shown in return. That is my personal choice.

As far as the Color of the respect groups forum names I could care less as I have stated its about how I chose to act and portray myself. I see no reason we should be a different color, but I also don't see what it hurts.

As far as th RP part of war there are people who are overly sensitive, and there are people who are overbearing as well. While I would love to see every posted looked over before being posted I know it wont happen as it would consume too much time and kill whats left of these forums. I also know there are people who will never act like grown people, who will always try to incite conflict and cause trouble. We deal with them as best as we can.

The point is, as long as someone stays inside the rules, they have the same rights as everyone else. If you would like to see those rules changed then do something about it. Become a mod. Let your voice be heard.

But you need to think long and hard about what you fight for because if you get it you may realise it wasnt such a good idea.

[Psi Kiya Trist]

I want to say this subject is getting way over rated. The only reason people talk to each other like this is because the dont know each other and it makes it much easier to say what you want to someone.

both true, and untrue.

i know geisha, considered her a friend, and someone i would've given up my account for. now, she is guilty of the same thing she opted to reject me for, when i asked if they wanted me back as head admin.

on the same discussion is under sensitivity, as well as over sensitivity.

another key part of the issue, that is unaddressed, is that alot of the whining that is "oversensitive" is directed at, or by someone who can't be punished for posts that ARE against the rules. IE, Geisha. from that, i believe stems most of this controversy. where did the discussion of an oversensitive forum come from? Geisha.

so, while this may be about those issues, it does all come back to Geisha, who also argues that the respect group is unnecessary, and hinders the forum.
now, i don't believe this, i believe people should always be upheld to an oath they took, being accountable to it, and such, even if it was made two years ago. the purpose of the respect group, is for those who believe in raising the standard of the forums to respecting people. not every one will, but those who do, start by being respectful themselves, for respect breeds respect. just as disrespect, breeds more disrespect.

i believe that we can have fun, without resorting to attacking people, and being disrespectful. (for the most part, the temple of spam is good in this regard) now, being disrespectful, can be taken many ways. i think some of the ways that spawned this controversy are indeed disrespectful, even if intended in jest.

so, how do we resolve these problems? i think most of them would go away if Geisha was to step down as mod. i personally would back down on the issue then, as my primary concerns are abuse(which i have seen), favoritism, bringing threads from the mod forums,(which i am guilty of as well) and modding threads in which she is involved(which allows the appearance of bias even if there is none).

most of the sensitivity should go down, if people feel they can actually rebuttal against her, and her friends "mockery" without having to deal with being banned, or mod disrespect. i don't believe removing the rules for disrespect are really going to solve the problem, unless we all can act like adults. which sadly, is not always possible.

so, there you have it, my perspective.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

[Apadizamek]

Now what I find most amusing is while everyone seems to be saying that Geisha and her buddies were rude by calling robe a coward. most of you have proven to be hipocrites by the way you've insulted her, you've called her much worse then a coward. However your points are mostly still valid.

While the thread being moved annoyed me, I can understand why. The thread was getting flaming kind of bad, however, Geisha probably should have split it. However her being a rather gun ho mod does not make her a corrupt one.

Now that the Geisha topic is addressed lets see about the over-sensitivity. Now I think there is a bit of over sensitivity, however I also think the passive agressive nature of some of the insults can be so infuriating. I've often seen people say their "jokes" in quite a mean tone, and when their called in on it simply "it was a joke!" while sometimes I'm sure its true, often times it's just an exscuse.

For example the sig shop often was full of flaming. People flamed newbs sigs as "crappy' and such while only a few offered good advice. Now the sig shop is full of good advice and is generally a far more welcoming spot for newbs then anything.

However alot of you are right, the forum is a bit sensitive. We should be able to do a few friendly jabs here and there, hell I do many a jab often times not so friendly. But; I've tried to clean up my act, mostly succeeding, and I think its made my time on the forums far better then when I was insulting everyone.


As for the respect group I feel it was only meant in good taste. It was meant to help new members of the forum who are often mocked, called morons, and other such things. True newbs should have some respect, but also newbs should be shown some respect. Thats what that group was all about, and some members have been a little disrespectful. But so has many alliances and we do not paint them with the same brush as other members.

[killtacular]

I want to say this subject is getting way over rated. The only reason people talk to each other like this is because the dont know each other and it makes it much easier to say what you want to someone.

both true, and untrue.

i know geisha, considered her a friend, and someone i would've given up my account for. now, she is guilty of the same thing she opted to reject me for, when i asked if they wanted me back as head admin.

on the same discussion is under sensitivity, as well as over sensitivity.

another key part of the issue, that is unaddressed, is that alot of the whining that is "oversensitive" is directed at, or by someone who can't be punished for posts that ARE against the rules. IE, Geisha. from that, i believe stems most of this controversy. where did the discussion of an oversensitive forum come from? Geisha.

so, while this may be about those issues, it does all come back to Geisha, who also argues that the respect group is unnecessary, and hinders the forum.
now, i don't believe this, i believe people should always be upheld to an oath they took, being accountable to it, and such, even if it was made two years ago. the purpose of the respect group, is for those who believe in raising the standard of the forums to respecting people. not every one will, but those who do, start by being respectful themselves, for respect breeds respect. just as disrespect, breeds more disrespect.

i believe that we can have fun, without resorting to attacking people, and being disrespectful. (for the most part, the temple of spam is good in this regard) now, being disrespectful, can be taken many ways. i think some of the ways that spawned this controversy are indeed disrespectful, even if intended in jest.

so, how do we resolve these problems? i think most of them would go away if Geisha was to step down as mod. i personally would back down on the issue then, as my primary concerns are abuse(which i have seen), favoritism, bringing threads from the mod forums,(which i am guilty of as well) and modding threads in which she is involved(which allows the appearance of bias even if there is none).

most of the sensitivity should go down, if people feel they can actually rebuttal against her, and her friends "mockery" without having to deal with being banned, or mod disrespect. i don't believe removing the rules for disrespect are really going to solve the problem, unless we all can act like adults. which sadly, is not always possible.

so, there you have it, my perspective.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

define knowing

[Psi Kiya Trist]

define knowing

i know her well enough to realize that claims of her being a "nightwalker" in Real life, are unfounded, but roleplaying claims of her being one, are not, because she openly flaunts "sleeping around" with several members of the community as a roleplay joke, for their mutual amusement. which is something many people would miss.

i also know her real name, (first and last) as well as her phone number.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

[REK]

I insult cause I dont care about you if I knew you people in real life Id insult you based on what I know really hurts.. Im just a nice guy like taht

[geisha]

i know her well enough to realize that claims of her being a "nightwalker" in Real life, are unfounded, but roleplaying claims of her being one, are not, because she openly flaunts "sleeping around" with several members of the community as a roleplay joke, for their mutual amusement.

See and this is exactly where we obviously have different points of view and it is basically the whole issue. I think you (and many others) just refuse to look at the context things are being said in. If someone would call me a **Filtered** in a spam thread where Lee and REK are arguing who the father of my baby is (btw guys, it's neither of you ), you sure as hell wouldn't see me complaining.

I think there is a huge difference between personal insults and sarcastic remarks on a role playing level. I've been told I am not the one to decide when something can be taken personal and when it can't. But where have I ever said I am the one to decide? I think it should be pretty obvious when you look at the context and use some common sense.

And as I have said many many times now, I really don't understand how someone could be personally offended when someone is making fun of their alliance name in a war thread. How can that even be classed a personal offense? Aren't war threads where the role playing part of the game really happens?

[Tech_no_rati]

i say simply reset it. go back to how it worked b4 and start from there.
dont rule out respect in the future but for now, the forums just aint ready for it.


to successfully walk forward, sometimes one must step back.


i think certain thread, topics should be in certain forums, with rules.
its certainly something lots of wise good thinking pple should sit down and work out.

heck look at the space shuttle, its takes lots of good pple to put it up in space. not one or two pple..

[~Phoenix~]

I just dont get the problem if I call soemone a **Filtered** or an idiot. If I think he is and I dont know him and he doesnt know me what harm is it going to do? Its ust words. it isn't even personal, yet i've been told off about it countless times, no surprise there.

[Alex]

idk why a new thread was made the problim wasnt all giesha, the problim is that w/o the respect movement things would be worst....

[Tech_no_rati]

I just dont get the problem if I call soemone a **Filtered** or an idiot. If I think he is and I dont know him and he doesnt know me what harm is it going to do? Its ust words. it isn't even personal, yet i've been told off about it countless times, no surprise there.

ah but there is a quote out there:


"The pen and its words are mightier then the sword"

words do hurt..

look at the word they just buried....


one word did so much hurt and pain to alot of pple


its no different on forums....
everyone can and should respect others.. we are all human... i think./..

[Mordack]

Obviously we need someone on constant standby with a box of tissues at the ready. Problem solved.