Something strange going on...

[cyberblade]

I don't think lifers would be good-as they can't be killed, and you could then create a ton of unkillable assasins...

maybe limit assasin/covert to a percentage of total size? say 10% maximum?

[Lore]

I've also had my stats at that level-but the only times I'd found it be a liability was when I didn't keep my assasin stats at a similar level... Did you end up losing those from attacks or destroy military? Because it would be very, well-I won't say wrong-but odd (at the least) that a small army could mass down that kind of defense...

At the time of these attacks, my worst stat was my CS at rank 29. All other stats were rank 25 or less. A sniper who dumped his entire realm into his assasins hit me with destroy military and 30 hits later i had basicly 4.5% of my def and strike left.

The snipers pour all their LF in strike and assasins and nothing else. You can't compete with that at present assasin power.

If you build a def bigg enough to stop these snipers hitting with 2 and 3 quad strikes, then another sniper assasinates you at a loss ratio 0f about 6 to 1 in their favor. since they want to stay small to maintain high rank mods and dont need income as they live solely off other since you cant stop them.

oh and since one of the regulars i see takes 9 hits to deascend, thats not an option either. 27 hrs with no refill aint going to happen.

[cyberblade]

hmm, you're right. something does need to be done about this...

unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) complaining doesn't fix things (not that you've done that-I'm just saying). So-whats the solution? If we can present a solution we might get admin to fix it...

here are some of the options I see:

limiting assassins/covert to 10% of total realm
Changing losses on defense (if you're beating them back-be it assassins or a normal strike-you shouldn't be losing more than them)
limiting levels somehow? not sure exactly on this one... any ideas?

Any other ideas?

[Lore]

here are some of the options I see:

limiting assassins/covert to 10% of total realm
Changing losses on defense (if you're beating them back-be it assassins or a normal strike-you shouldn't be losing more than them)
limiting levels somehow? not sure exactly on this one... any ideas?

Any other ideas?

i dont think limiting to 10% is viable. it definitely limits a smaller account against attacking a larger one. if one is 2 times bigger then no covert att would be possible.

Changing losess is the most viable option to me 95% is too much damage that can be inflicted

I suggested long ago that there be a max differential in your highest and lowest stat. You should not be able to just raise one single stat or two. Say there can only be 250 to 500 levels differet in your ascended stats. If the original concept was put back in place were these snipers can be hurt I wouldnt mind. But as it stands they are untouchable. Some dont even train planets anymore. Assasination is just far to powerful.

I still do not understand the 30 hit rule in ascended. You cant even get close to massing someone in ascended in 30 hits, but 30 covert attacks can wipe 95% of your att and def combined. Now yes you can carefully mass so you keep your strike under there def and negating the 30 hit rule, but why? You can do it with covert cheaper and faster.

[cyberblade]

here are some of the options I see:

limiting assassins/covert to 10% of total realm
Changing losses on defense (if you're beating them back-be it assassins or a normal strike-you shouldn't be losing more than them)
limiting levels somehow? not sure exactly on this one... any ideas?

Any other ideas?

i dont think limiting to 10% is viable. it definitely limits a smaller account against attacking a larger one. if one is 2 times bigger then no covert att would be possible.

Changing losess is the most viable option to me 95% is too much damage that can be inflicted

I suggested long ago that there be a max differential in your highest and lowest stat. You should not be able to just raise one single stat or two. Say there can only be 250 to 500 levels differet in your ascended stats. If the original concept was put back in place were these snipers can be hurt I wouldnt mind. But as it stands they are untouchable. Some dont even train planets anymore. Assasination is just far to powerful.

I still do not understand the 30 hit rule in ascended. You cant even get close to massing someone in ascended in 30 hits, but 30 covert attacks can wipe 95% of your att and def combined. Now yes you can carefully mass so you keep your strike under there def and negating the 30 hit rule, but why? You can do it with covert cheaper and faster.

the limiting to 10% may not be viable... the differential could be-there is one problem that I see: to be a proper differential-it would need to be based on rank-not action. and rank is only calculated every 30 turns. my personal thought is that the site be converted to ajax-so everything is displayed in realtime, and constantly updated...* without doing that I dont see how the differential will be any good-as you will have 30 minutes to do whatever.
changing losses seems to be the best option for now. make costly. not overly so-where it wouldnt be used. but balance it out. I'm not sure what the formulas should be...

EDIT: and yes-the 30 rule limit needs to be changed... either eliminate that-or better yet perhaps, make a 5 rule limit for assasinations?


* note for admin should he chance across this, (or anyone who talks to him)
[spoiler]I know that updating to the website is a ton of work... if admin ever considers I'm willing to put about 10 hours/week into it... I don't know ajax yet-but I do well with perl/sql/html, and I'm working on learning javascript atm... I think a month or two of work could convert the site... anyways-i'm happy to help with the site at any point if ever admin wants any help...[/spoiler]

[Mojo Rising]

I have a solution that would fix everything: Remove the rank mods and damage caps. I have suggested this on a number of occasions and it would fix the current problem by making the sniper accounts descendable. Now, the lifers for assassin and covert: who says that they can't be killed? They can be killed just like any other unit. Some of them just can't be untrained. And I would make it so that the regular ones die first so that the untrained are the last to die. I believe people would think twice and three times before putting all of their planets into assassination.

[cyberblade]

rank and damage mods being gotten rid of doesnt keep a sniper from killing all your trained planets, then untraining their assassins... even if 10% gets made "un-untrainable" they still kill all of your planets, and you get to kill 10% of their assassins...

[Lore]

rank and damage mods being gotten rid of doesnt keep a sniper from killing all your trained planets, then untraining their assassins... even if 10% gets made "un-untrainable" they still kill all of your planets, and you get to kill 10% of their assassins...

Correct, but it does make them deascendable wich stops their attacks for 2 weeks. Its all we have now.

[cyberblade]

rank and damage mods being gotten rid of doesnt keep a sniper from killing all your trained planets, then untraining their assassins... even if 10% gets made "un-untrainable" they still kill all of your planets, and you get to kill 10% of their assassins...

Correct, but it does make them deascendable wich stops their attacks for 2 weeks. Its all we have now.

well-anyone who attacks you you should be able to descend. I presume removing rank mods would solve that particular issue?

the other solution that I see is making it so that your ranks for stats all have to stay within a certain range... say 300 points? I think thats a better solution long term... But yes, it involves rescripting the site-so its not an immediate fix... well, as i said before-I'm happy to work on code anytime admin wants...

[Mojo Rising]

rank and damage mods being gotten rid of doesnt keep a sniper from killing all your trained planets, then untraining their assassins... even if 10% gets made "un-untrainable" they still kill all of your planets, and you get to kill 10% of their assassins...

Correct, but it does make them deascendable wich stops their attacks for 2 weeks. Its all we have now.

well-anyone who attacks you you should be able to descend. I presume removing rank mods would solve that particular issue?

the other solution that I see is making it so that your ranks for stats all have to stay within a certain range... say 300 points? I think thats a better solution long term... But yes, it involves rescripting the site-so its not an immediate fix... well, as i said before-I'm happy to work on code anytime admin wants...

You see, that's the point. With the rank mods and damage caps, descension is impossible. You have to wait a minimum of nine hours to be able to even have a chance at descending someone. And by that time, they have farmed enough DMU to be able to replenish their LF so it becomes an exercise in futility. What needs to happen to make descension a viable tactic is to remove the rank mods and damage caps, abolish the Ascended Council, and remove the CER restrictions and let the tigers prowl once again. If people want to think that they can take on the big accounts, let them take us on UNFETTERED. It's easy to poke a stick at the tiger on a chain when you are standing just outside the reach of the chain. You can hurt and maybe even kill the tiger were you so inclined.

However, you poke that same stick at the tiger and the chain breaks or is no longer there and your odds of escaping the encounter unscathed become markedly less.

Suggestions I am going to make to admin tomorrow:

1.) Remove damage caps and rank mods
2.) Remove CER restrictions
3.) Make levels the limiting factor for how many units you may send in an attack (you may still have more for defense). For instance, say a million covert ops or assassins per level, so if you have level 500 you may send 500 million covert ops or assassins. If you have level 1000, you can send a billion, etc. Same goes for attack. Now you might be able to train more than that up to use when someone tries to assassinate you but the max you can send is limited by level.
4.) Increase assassin losses on a failed assassin attempt (currently the number is a joke).
5.) Increase assassin losses based on relative assassin strengths: if the assassin barely beats the assassin power of the person they are assassinating, they should lose a LOT of assassins in the process, at least 10%.
6.) Decrease the time between ascension attacks to one hour. If it is possible to destroy someone's main account in less than half an hour when they are on critical and Nox, then I say you should be able to descend someone in three or four hours if you are of a mind to. Denying them ascended bonuses for two weeks is far less punishment than setting their account back six months or more by destroying millions of super soldiers and weapons in the blink of an eye.
7.) Require a minimum income to be able to use Nox and critical, based on army size. Currently it is ridiculous to have sniper accounts use them when it isn't costing them anything to do so. That way, the sniper accounts will have to have planets trained as resource planets (and thus not trained elsewhere) to be able to effect a Nox/critical defense.

[TheRook]

in this thread here in suggestions we are discussing ways of changing descension as right now its impossible to descend someone if they log on at any point during the 9 hours (assuming you get 1/3rd (max hit) each time

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=103479

I'll copy the bit I added save you having to read through but I suggest you look there and put in any ideas etc

make it so that you can only refill 1/20th of your LF reserves per turn... (when converting cache

So for example

Life Force Max: 4857577
Current Life Force: 4857577
Life Force Reserves: 72863655

this is a persons full stats (Everything full)

So I hit that person for 1/3rd damage (max) ascendedAttack 24,287,885 Destroyed Life Force

Life Force Max: 4857577
Current Life Force: 1
Life Force Reserves: 53560695

they can refill their Current LF and put in 1/20th of reserves (3,643,183) per turn from LF Cache along with Recovery rate

if they do that they will recover the 1/3rd lost in the 3 hours (6 turns)

but if they dont do it every turn there LF reserves will be lower...

this makes it possible for people to descend someone and stop this happening

Life Force Max: 4857577
Current Life Force: 1
Life Force Reserves: 12560695

and on the next ascended hit... they have been on for 1 turn and refilled their LF and LF Reserves making themselves undescendable...

Life Force Max: 4857577
Current Life Force: 4857577
Life Force Reserves: 72863655

back to square one... and 3x99 AT wasted right now someone can come on once every 8 hours and make themselves undescendable...

with limiting them to refill 1/20th LF Reserves per turn (from LF Cache) it will mean if they dont check more frequently they will be descended...

it will make people work on a neglected part of their ascended account which to be honest is useless and nearly impossible to descend anyone who only comes on once every 8hours...

admittedly it should be very difficult to descend someone who is on every 3 hours because they are working on their account...

otherwise whats the point of descension if it can be stopped so easily...


TheRook

and additionally there are two threads in suggestions about assassins and possible solutions as right now they are just over used

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=102293

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=103487


I'm more concerned with descending being almost impossible unless they dont use there account
but I only rank that slightly above assassins being too powerful


TheRook

[TheRook]

Suggestions I am going to make to admin tomorrow:

1.) Remove damage caps and rank mods
2.) Remove CER restrictions
3.) Make levels the limiting factor for how many units you may send in an attack (you may still have more for defense). For instance, say a million covert ops or assassins per level, so if you have level 500 you may send 500 million covert ops or assassins. If you have level 1000, you can send a billion, etc. Same goes for attack. Now you might be able to train more than that up to use when someone tries to assassinate you but the max you can send is limited by level.
4.) Increase assassin losses on a failed assassin attempt (currently the number is a joke).
5.) Increase assassin losses based on relative assassin strengths: if the assassin barely beats the assassin power of the person they are assassinating, they should lose a LOT of assassins in the process, at least 10%.
6.) Decrease the time between ascension attacks to one hour. If it is possible to destroy someone's main account in less than half an hour when they are on critical and Nox, then I say you should be able to descend someone in three or four hours if you are of a mind to. Denying them ascended bonuses for two weeks is far less punishment than setting their account back six months or more by destroying millions of super soldiers and weapons in the blink of an eye.
7.) Require a minimum income to be able to use Nox and critical, based on army size. Currently it is ridiculous to have sniper accounts use them when it isn't costing them anything to do so. That way, the sniper accounts will have to have planets trained as resource planets (and thus not trained elsewhere) to be able to effect a Nox/critical defense.

1. I'm assuming your talking about the 1/3rd max reserves damage.

I think that should stay but adjust the amount of LF they can refill per turn to 1/20th which means in 6 turns they can refill it if necessary! but also means they cant stop ascension by coming on in 8.5 hours of the first attack and farming and refilling LF & Reserves frmo DMU

2) I think them being reduced helps a little but perhaps reducing modifier on CER a little more

3) that sounds like a reasonable idea

4) I agree

5) agree again

6) see point 1 and my suggestion above on the 1/20th refill per turn

7) it will have to be a % i.e. 40% of total planets as income planets.


TheRook

[cyberblade]

Suggestions I am going to make to admin tomorrow:

1.) Remove damage caps and rank mods
2.) Remove CER restrictions
3.) Make levels the limiting factor for how many units you may send in an attack (you may still have more for defense). For instance, say a million covert ops or assassins per level, so if you have level 500 you may send 500 million covert ops or assassins. If you have level 1000, you can send a billion, etc. Same goes for attack. Now you might be able to train more than that up to use when someone tries to assassinate you but the max you can send is limited by level.
4.) Increase assassin losses on a failed assassin attempt (currently the number is a joke).
5.) Increase assassin losses based on relative assassin strengths: if the assassin barely beats the assassin power of the person they are assassinating, they should lose a LOT of assassins in the process, at least 10%.
6.) Decrease the time between ascension attacks to one hour. If it is possible to destroy someone's main account in less than half an hour when they are on critical and Nox, then I say you should be able to descend someone in three or four hours if you are of a mind to. Denying them ascended bonuses for two weeks is far less punishment than setting their account back six months or more by destroying millions of super soldiers and weapons in the blink of an eye.
7.) Require a minimum income to be able to use Nox and critical, based on army size. Currently it is ridiculous to have sniper accounts use them when it isn't costing them anything to do so. That way, the sniper accounts will have to have planets trained as resource planets (and thus not trained elsewhere) to be able to effect a Nox/critical defense.

1 I agree.
2 I wouldn't remove it entirely-just lessen it some.
3 Sounds interesting-but I'm not sure of it yet...
4 A definite must
5 Agreed
6 I like TheRook's suggestion here
7 like TheRook said-this needs to be a % of your total planets-not a fixed number

[TheRook]

although the income planet % will have a problem with initiate revolution and those untraining said planets (after thought)

only solution I can see around this is that initiate revolution doesnt work if they have 40% or less...
cant think of one for untraining them

and you would have no way of making people train income planets... unless inorder to train other planets you MUST have 40% of total planets in income...


additional thought

3) this will cause issues for those with rank 1000 in assassins and having 1 billion assasssins they would be unstoppable except for the few others who would have 1100 or so and have 1.1 billion assassins... this could have game breaking issues by making some people invulnerable

[cyberblade]

the % has to be trained could just be made that in order to be on nox you have to have X % trained-and if you untrain to below that % you automatically come off... of course then the initiate revolution would take you off nox also-but I think thats realistic. You're paying for nox-and if you cant afford it (no matter WHY you can't afford it) you don't get it.

and yes-on number 3-I don't see it being a good idea...