debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

[[KMA]Avenger]

the bottom line is this...

whether Fluoride has any oral health benefits or not, its not down to private water companys and Govts to force anyone to have oral health!

if we truly live in a free society then its up to the individual to do whats right for them in all aspects of their life, freedom means having the right to chose whether you believe the hype 1 way or another and to have enough pertinent information to make an educated decision, after all, nobody can force me to have a bath, i make the decision to have a bath and how often, nobody has the right to force anything on me!

[S0lid Snake]

the bottom line is this...

whether Fluoride has any oral health benefits or not, its not down to private water companys and Govts to force anyone to have oral health!

if we truly live in a free society then its up to the individual to do whats right for them in all aspects of their life, freedom means having the right to chose whether you believe the hype 1 way or another and to have enough pertinent information to make an educated decision, after all, nobody can force me to have a bath, i make the decision to have a bath and how often, nobody has the right to force anything on me!

I Agree totally Avenger.

Also while on the subject of baths...

If the water supply is treated with Fluoride then not only does it affect you when you ingest it, but you can also in-hail it via steam from say bath water or when you take a hot shower.

So when you take a bath, shower, boil a kettle, drink tap water and brush your teeth, you are being bombarded with Fluoride!!!

Apparently saunas are the worst.

This is an outrage, the ppm is way past the so called safe dosage.

[[KMA]Avenger]

indeed you are correct.

i would say that ingesting fluoride isn't as toxic as breathing in the vapor

[S0lid Snake]

indeed you are correct.

i would say that ingesting fluoride isn't as toxic as breathing in the vapor

Absolutely! I imagine that the effects may become quite acute if done continuously over a long period of time. Could be the reason why most jocks are dead heads, well that and getting hit in the head a lot Rofl...

I have had replies to my initial letter, I'm thinking of sending a notice about it next time.

I will post the dialogue for all to see when I get some spare time.

TTFN...

[Iƒrit]

sodium fluoride?

Noone said anything about not brushing your teeth

yes but seeing as flouride is added to water (and toothpaste) to help teeth etc it relates to my point. if you dont brush your teeth/have good oral hygiene you are at greater risk. flouride improves oral hygiene so it reduces the risks.

Im postive their is non-flouridated toothpaste and water, so im sure you can still have good oral hygine and not be at risk.

[Colton]

Nicely said ^_^

[Brdavs]

if we truly live in a free society then its up to the individual to do whats right for them in all aspects of their life

This "free libertarian society" is a figment of the imagination. Society has a reasonable and legitimate calling to eliminate/reduce some dangersailments to its population, despite the opposition of a couple of "cooks", no offense heh. There are vast areas in this field you have 0 choice, and rightly so. You cannot for instance refuse medial treatment if the nature of your ailment is such that it poses a risk of an epidemic, religion and choice be damned. In this case, as has been pointed out, you have other choices availeble thoe. Dont drink tap water and check the content of the paste you buy. Rest of us will have bleachy teeth when we die of fluoride poisoning I guess lol...

[TheWay]

if we truly live in a free society then its up to the individual to do whats right for them in all aspects of their life

This "free libertarian society" is a figment of the imagination. Society has a reasonable and legitimate calling to eliminate/reduce some dangersailments to its population, despite the opposition of a couple of "cooks", no offense heh. There are vast areas in this field you have 0 choice, and rightly so. You cannot for instance refuse medial treatment if the nature of your ailment is such that it poses a risk of an epidemic, religion and choice be damned. In this case, as has been pointed out, you have other choices availeble thoe. Dont drink tap water and check the content of the paste you buy. Rest of us will have bleachy teeth when we die of fluoride poisoning I guess lol...

Now this argument is very different depending on what country you reside in and the laws and the intent of the founding fathers of that country. If we are speaking about America though the issue is very simple and Avenger is absolutely correct. The best way to explain would be to have you read a book called democracy in America written by Alexis de Tocqueville a Frenchman exploring America in the 1800s. Short of you reading a giant book it would be Abraham Lincoln said “The Legitimate object of government,” “said Lincoln, is only to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do for themselves… In all that the people can individually do for themselves government ought not to interfere.” This quote explains the roll and purpose of government quite well I believe and so it leads me to conclude that since we as individuals can indeed ingest or use fluoride without the governments help they indeed should let us choose on our own if and when we want to use it.

[Kit-Fox]

Private companies introduce flouride into the UK supply under requirement by the gov so there really is no point banging on about 'what right do they have to do it' its a legal requirement in some areas that they do so.

And in the UK you couldnt without the gov putting into the supply use it on your own, as its a restricted substance and you need a licence to purchase it in any kind of quantity.

Btw it should be noted that south staffs has had flouridated water for many years now, the incidence of cancer is very low and the oral health of many of the residents is much higher than in parts of the country without it added.

[TheWay]

i dont think the value of flouride was the issue for me nor it's legal standing. Rather I am arguing that although helpful and legal that does not make it right. That may seem very strange but in the U.S. legality is decided in a court room where someone brings a case against the state or Federal governement arguing wether they ahve a right to do as they have done. Seperate from that there is also a political outlet where you can vote for locale and federal representation that will be less obtrusive in our everyday lives and possibly even take out flouride.

I for one dont care if they do or dont it doesnt seem worth the effort to fight it however that doesnt change the fact that I dont believe it is right

[Kit-Fox]

Wasnt arguing any of that, but al ot of ppl have posted venting their fumes saying such stuff as 'what right does a private company have to do this' well at least here in the UK your barking up the wrong tree, its not the private company at fault. Its the gov thats in charge of what gets added in and by how much ( at least stuff like flouride anyways )

I'm also willing to bet that you'll find somewhere/somehow someone by now will have already tried bringing legal action over it in one of the so called 'trail areas' ( yes its still a trial in the UK despite having been going for sometime now, from the 60s/70s iirc ) and no doubt it was either thrown out / silently suffed out of existance using things like the offical secrets act or maybe even (and its unlikely) went ahead and I'd say if thats true then whoever brought it lost as its still happening.

Anyway its not really worth getting all up into a huff about it really, as your body is exposed to so many thing over the course of your life ( many such exposures been well over the medical 'safe' limit ) that one more thing isnt gonna kill you any quicker than the rest of it. And if your so scared of it then only use bottled water ( which can be sold without any additives whatsoever in the UK, unlike tap water ) or learn how to purify water so you can have pure h2o for your uses.

[Colton]

Anyway its not really worth getting all up into a huff about it really, as your body is exposed to so many thing over the course of your life ( many such exposures been well over the medical 'safe' limit ) that one more thing isnt gonna kill you any quicker than the rest of it.

Although that doesn't go for everyone. Living on a farm in the middle of nowhere has it's perks, however lame dial-up seems to be ^_^

Only one more month till I get Hi-speed apparently

[TheWay]

Wasnt arguing any of that, but al ot of ppl have posted venting their fumes saying such stuff as 'what right does a private company have to do this' well at least here in the UK your barking up the wrong tree, its not the private company at fault. Its the gov thats in charge of what gets added in and by how much ( at least stuff like flouride anyways )

I'm also willing to bet that you'll find somewhere/somehow someone by now will have already tried bringing legal action over it in one of the so called 'trail areas' ( yes its still a trial in the UK despite having been going for sometime now, from the 60s/70s iirc ) and no doubt it was either thrown out / silently suffed out of existance using things like the offical secrets act or maybe even (and its unlikely) went ahead and I'd say if thats true then whoever brought it lost as its still happening.

Anyway its not really worth getting all up into a huff about it really, as your body is exposed to so many thing over the course of your life ( many such exposures been well over the medical 'safe' limit ) that one more thing isnt gonna kill you any quicker than the rest of it. And if your so scared of it then only use bottled water ( which can be sold without any additives whatsoever in the UK, unlike tap water ) or learn how to purify water so you can have pure h2o for your uses.

agreed!

I wonder though where we draw the line because it seems we loose more and more choices everyday I mean it starts with things like how much water my toilet can flush and it ends up with me not being able to drink a cup of coffee. I just think at some point we need to start being heard more in our governements and say we will no longer allow you to take away our choices. This is not suggest I am into anything silly, I believe in using the power of voice which works better then anything else anyways

[Colton]

Indeed.

[[KMA]Avenger]

guys, saying stuff like "1 more thing isnt gona kill you any sooner" is the wrong attitude to have!

just because we live in a world where we are surrounded by toxins and pollution doesn't mean we should tolerate any more.

studies have been done in the states were fluoridating water has been going on longer-show that there's absolutely NO evidence to show that people drinking fluoride treated water have better oral health than those not drinking the same.

also, doctors with promising futures who have stumbled across facts showing that treating the water with fluoride is infact harmful and governments know this have been fired with no warning or explanation.
call it a conspiracy if you will, all i'm saying is that the main ingredient in rat poison cannot be good for you and all i'm trying to do is raise awareness that you are drinking for all intense and purpose...rat poison!

and as for america, well its getting increasingly difficult to get away from fluorides because they are now treating bottled water with it, thereby taking away from you any chance you have of "choice".


can anyone spell Evian backwards?