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the simplest would be to leave everything as it was before. We did not whine about loosing the planets unlike others.

What he did was make our planets vulnerable to attack while we cannot take planets nor recover them after being stolen.

So currently things are not okay. There has to be some rule added to allow either the fleets be destroyed or the house can keep taking planets.


Easy

Tekki wrote:I'm in Australia Mezzanine and the Admin meetings aren't a party for me to get to either. 2am I believe is the time for one of them most of the year. The other used to be at my work time until they got moved to a Friday (ingame time).

Regardless of the times of the meetings, how dedicated or obsessed some people are staying up late or missing work to attend my point is still valid, discussing updates and fixes in the forum would get a far wider perspective of the effects, pro's & cons, give people time to make well considered responses, and avoid all these **Filtered** ups with bad decissions made with limited, usually one sided information.

I dont blame FUALL for wanting updates that favor them, Im sure all alliances and players want updates that favor themselves and there friends/allies, but it's admins job to do whats best for everyone and the game in general, not just bow down to the pestering and demands of a few who make it to his meetings.

a very interesting thread this one, and something that has also occured to me since the updates.

since fleets can be sold for 90% cost but shields + weapons cannot be sold , then perhaps the best solution would be that fleets be exempt from the house protection, ie, fleets can be destroyed, but not weapons and shields, and fleets can be used to take planets, but this would be very difficult to acheive, as it takes a mothership to mass fleets...

however, since it is a complex situation, I'd like to point out one simple solution : if you leave the alliance for one day and go back to it, the bonus is not effective for a few days, during those days you can take planets... you therefore DO have the option of taking planets, and of retaking them, all be it not a perfect solution.

MEZZANINE wrote:

Tekki wrote:I'm in Australia Mezzanine and the Admin meetings aren't a party for me to get to either. 2am I believe is the time for one of them most of the year. The other used to be at my work time until they got moved to a Friday (ingame time).

Regardless of the times of the meetings, how dedicated or obsessed some people are staying up late or missing work to attend my point is still valid, discussing updates and fixes in the forum would get a far wider perspective of the effects, pro's & cons, give people time to make well considered responses, and avoid all these **Filtered** ups with bad decissions made with limited, usually one sided information.

I dont blame FUALL for wanting updates that favor them, Im sure all alliances and players want updates that favor themselves and there friends/allies, but it's admins job to do whats best for everyone and the game in general, not just bow down to the pestering and demands of a few who make it to his meetings.

Why do you and everyone anti-FUALL always whine about FUALL getting what favors FUALL? In case you havent noticed there buddy..for like ummmm the last 3 years..I do not think FUALL needs any favoritism..although being dominant due to excellent gaming apparently has its fringe benfits.

Eelyzabth wrote:a very interesting thread this one, and something that has also occured to me since the updates.

since fleets can be sold for 90% cost but shields + weapons cannot be sold , then perhaps the best solution would be that fleets be exempt from the house protection, ie, fleets can be destroyed, but not weapons and shields, and fleets can be used to take planets, but this would be very difficult to acheive, as it takes a mothership to mass fleets...

however, since it is a complex situation, I'd like to point out one simple solution : if you leave the alliance for one day and go back to it, the bonus is not effective for a few days, during those days you can take planets... you therefore DO have the option of taking planets, and of retaking them, all be it not a perfect solution.

MEZZANINE wrote:
As for a solution, it seems the people who wanted this update didnt like the fact they could not engage/destroy fleets, so making fleets killable would have been the fairest fix. Even though this would have taken a huge amount of the bonus away from the house, it would not have made the house worthless as this one way no planet stealing update has.

Be careful babydoll, you just agreed with me twice in less than an hour, that could get you in trouble


@ JT, please dont turn this into another flaming match, I clearly said in that quote that I dont blame FUALL. If you have an option on the update, if you think it is good or bad, or have a better suggestion to make the house bonus fair to all then please do post it with your reasoning.

Jedi~Tank wrote:

MEZZANINE wrote:

Tekki wrote:I'm in Australia Mezzanine and the Admin meetings aren't a party for me to get to either. 2am I believe is the time for one of them most of the year. The other used to be at my work time until they got moved to a Friday (ingame time).

Regardless of the times of the meetings, how dedicated or obsessed some people are staying up late or missing work to attend my point is still valid, discussing updates and fixes in the forum would get a far wider perspective of the effects, pro's & cons, give people time to make well considered responses, and avoid all these **Filtered** ups with bad decissions made with limited, usually one sided information.

I dont blame FUALL for wanting updates that favor them, Im sure all alliances and players want updates that favor themselves and there friends/allies, but it's admins job to do whats best for everyone and the game in general, not just bow down to the pestering and demands of a few who make it to his meetings.

Why do you and everyone anti-FUALL always whine about FUALL getting what favors FUALL? In case you havent noticed there buddy..for like ummmm the last 3 years..I do not think FUALL needs any favoritism..although being dominant due to excellent gaming apparently has its fringe benfits.

Well he maybe phrased it the wrong way, but i'm pretty sure the majority of those who achieved this house change, were from the FUALL alliances.
And apparently JT, this doesn't really concern you, as it was aimed to admin, who has made a mistake in the update which needs fixing (and i am not saying that it was fair before).

IF you feel you have to express your opinion than do so, but if you feel that your alliance has been involved, than open a thread in the appropriate section, or handle it via pm.

Thanks for your understanding.

Easy

The stupidity of this updates has no bounds. Make fleets killable and that would sort it. It just went from one extreme to the other. Yes i can understand others being pissed at not being able to kill fleets and understand ppl pressuring admin to sort that, but now the table, instead of being straightened has just been flipped over and now were pissed that we cant take planets. Makes fleets killable and be done with it and make the resale of fleets worthless like attack weapons. Hmmm wasnt that the simple solution? I think so.

~Coyle~ wrote:The stupidity of this updates has no bounds. Make fleets killable and that would sort it. It just went from one extreme to the other. Yes i can understand others being pissed at not being able to kill fleets and understand ppl pressuring admin to sort that, but now the table, instead of being straightened has just been flipped over and now were pissed that we cant take planets. Makes fleets killable and be done with it and make the resale of fleets worthless like attack weapons. Hmmm wasnt that the simple solution? I think so.

+1

The update took 1 extreme, removed it, and put another extreme into its place, it is unfair to allow someone to lose planets and not beable to retal against the person taking them, the same way it was unfair to planet mass and not beable to hit the fleets, the simple fix was to make fleets exempt from the house bonus.

It was nice of the OP to try and derail the topic in the first post, i guess some people will always be on the outside looking in.

MEZZANINE wrote:

Eelyzabth wrote:a very interesting thread this one, and something that has also occured to me since the updates.

since fleets can be sold for 90% cost but shields + weapons cannot be sold , then perhaps the best solution would be that fleets be exempt from the house protection, ie, fleets can be destroyed, but not weapons and shields, and fleets can be used to take planets, but this would be very difficult to acheive, as it takes a mothership to mass fleets...

however, since it is a complex situation, I'd like to point out one simple solution : if you leave the alliance for one day and go back to it, the bonus is not effective for a few days, during those days you can take planets... you therefore DO have the option of taking planets, and of retaking them, all be it not a perfect solution.

MEZZANINE wrote:
As for a solution, it seems the people who wanted this update didnt like the fact they could not engage/destroy fleets, so making fleets killable would have been the fairest fix. Even though this would have taken a huge amount of the bonus away from the house, it would not have made the house worthless as this one way no planet stealing update has.

Be careful babydoll, you just agreed with me twice in less than an hour, that could get you in trouble


@ JT, please dont turn this into another flaming match, I clearly said in that quote that I dont blame FUALL. If you have an option on the update, if you think it is good or bad, or have a better suggestion to make the house bonus fair to all then please do post it with your reasoning.

OK, I did not like the way it was before..use fleets without ms to take planets and fleets covered..I suppose it does not matter much since most planets on average are not defended and are taken for bragging rights and competitions..however I do like the idea of fleet vs fleet battles..I am in favor of keeping the costs as they are, but asdding the option to sell off volley and shields.

The thing is, the way the system was before WAS fair. Both sides could do equal damage to the other. The people that complained simply had bigger planets to lose than the people in the Sobek house. There are a few potential fixes I see to this problem:

1. Make fleets battle eachother exclusively. You can't leave fleets killable to outside motherships, but only to outside fleets. This would mean drastically changing the concept of mothership fighting though as why would this house have special mothership fighting rules compared to other houses? Would fleets fight fleets everywhere now? Would we consider fleets as attack weapons instead? This would have to be discussed at length and tested.

2. Make planets in Sobek untouchable also. This is also a bad decision and one I fear some are actually pushing for. Could you imagine a house where you could leave out all your planets unprotected? People could hold 10 duals with no worry of losing them. That would be another dangerous and poor decision.

3. Return it to the way it was. As it stood, the house favored people with less to lose in planets, of course. But many houses favor one style of play over another. That's why we all choose the place best for us. Honestly instead of complaining about a house, why didn't anyone use their population and go take it (which they could have done). Then you leave a skeleton crew there to protect the house unless more are needed later. That is in keeping with this game and in keeping with the concept of houses that Jason implemented.

If we're going to go there, why don't we complain about every house's unfair advantage and just scrap the whole thing? I mean it's not fair that those of us not in shadow have a harder time sabbing people or those of us not in Aker are more easily massed or those of us not in Science have to deal with extra ascended blessings. Every house has it's advantages and disadvantages and their own style of game play. It's up to us to actually play the game instead of constantly trying to "fix" things.

2. Make planets in Sobek untouchable also. This is also a bad decision and one I fear some are actually pushing for. Could you imagine a house where you could leave out all your planets unprotected? People could hold 10 duals with no worry of losing them. That would be another dangerous and poor decision.

That would be so so so bad its not even funny.

GeneralChaos wrote:

2. Make planets in Sobek untouchable also. This is also a bad decision and one I fear some are actually pushing for. Could you imagine a house where you could leave out all your planets unprotected? People could hold 10 duals with no worry of losing them. That would be another dangerous and poor decision.

That would be so so so bad its not even funny.

Hey to be fair, it wouldn't be for you guys. You're the ones with the voting power to hold that house. Just imagine it...unlimited planet power and noone could touch it! My what a dream.

You are absolutely right though, it would be terrible for the game. The houses as they stand are annoying quite often, but I still think they add an interesting wrinkle and brought back some fun backroom politics for at least a little while, though now everyone seems quiet in their comfortable houses. Bet they've even bought cable. Anyway, I think of houses like key bonuses on a fps map (idk if they actually have these but bear with me). With each bonus, you're given a boost to some ability that makes you a lot stronger. While it's not necessary to control one of these bonuses to still win (and we need to make sure that no house makes someone unstoppable, which I argue Sobek clearly hasn't though I suppose that is up for debate here), people should vie to take these over as quickly as possible to prevent others hurting you with them and to hurt them back with that power.

The beauty of Sobek is that it demands others to take it over to protect their planets and it makes many accounts have to choose if it's worth it to allow some planet stealers full access to their goods without putting up a fight. You said it yourself GC, you could easily come for them and take over Sobek if you so desired. Yes it would mean you'd lose your specific bonuses for a few days, but that's when you weigh the risks and the rewards to that action. This is the kind of extra thinking involved that these updates really allow and I find quite interesting.

I think there needs to be a house war feature added that keeps anyone outside of the house from hitting. With a duration counter that can be set.

Mathlord wrote:The thing is, the way the system was before WAS fair. Both sides could do equal damage to the other. The people that complained simply had bigger planets to lose than the people in the Sobek house. There are a few potential fixes I see to this problem:

1. Make fleets battle eachother exclusively. You can't leave fleets killable to outside motherships, but only to outside fleets. This would mean drastically changing the concept of mothership fighting though as why would this house have special mothership fighting rules compared to other houses? Would fleets fight fleets everywhere now? Would we consider fleets as attack weapons instead? This would have to be discussed at length and tested.

2. Make planets in Sobek untouchable also. This is also a bad decision and one I fear some are actually pushing for. Could you imagine a house where you could leave out all your planets unprotected? People could hold 10 duals with no worry of losing them. That would be another dangerous and poor decision.

3. Return it to the way it was. As it stood, the house favored people with less to lose in planets, of course. But many houses favor one style of play over another. That's why we all choose the place best for us. Honestly instead of complaining about a house, why didn't anyone use their population and go take it (which they could have done). Then you leave a skeleton crew there to protect the house unless more are needed later. That is in keeping with this game and in keeping with the concept of houses that Jason implemented.

If we're going to go there, why don't we complain about every house's unfair advantage and just scrap the whole thing? I mean it's not fair that those of us not in shadow have a harder time sabbing people or those of us not in Aker are more easily massed or those of us not in Science have to deal with extra ascended blessings. Every house has it's advantages and disadvantages and their own style of game play. It's up to us to actually play the game instead of constantly trying to "fix" things.

I had thought I had said something similar to this before, seems I can't find it. No other house has a disadvantage, yet Sobek now does. Even though before those in it's fleets couldn't be massed, neither could those outside hitting in, so it was no different than other houses. Making us not able to take planets, nor able to lose would be very bad as many have stated. Fleet vs Fleet battles seems to be about the only fair way that people will feel, as it doesn't leave Sobek members at a specific disadvantage, yet doesn't let them keep fleets trained as some do not like. Fleets already get damaged from farming, so perhaps it wouldn't be too hard to change it so that fleets only show up in battle reports with Sobek, or if need be, make it a separate attack available only to those attacking or in the house?