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The fact is, mezz, as much as we europeans (and alot of our cousins from across the pond) disagree with the stand your ground law, it is a legitimate law where this case has taken place.

Now as much as we can't understand how the taking of another life can be decided as acceptable on the basis of something so relative and ambiguous as "fearing for your life" if the evidence suggests zimmerman shot this kid within the law, then he didn't commit any crime.

As far as the case on a whole, the ineptitude of the initial investigation should of taken precedent. A kid died, and the police initial investigation was questionable at so many turns it's a shame it took 4 weeks and national outcry for it to be looked at. Also a shame it's only being looked at on the grounds of racism coming into play, rather than justice prevailing, either way.

Reread my post, Mezz, I brought it up to point out the obvious question, why this time? What has changed? What's different?

He called the police first. He did not confront Martin. You are jumping to conclusions, Mezz. You are also buying into the media lies hook, line and sinker.

Before I go any further I just want to stop everyone say that SYG(Stand Your Ground) does not apply to this case. Even without SYG, Zimmerman would have been justified. Further, SYG is not a law. Rather it is a doctrine the law is based upon.

Tek wrote:As far as the case on a whole, the ineptitude of the initial investigation should of taken precedent. A kid died, and the police initial investigation was questionable at so many turns it's a shame it took 4 weeks and national outcry for it to be looked at. Also a shame it's only being looked at on the grounds of racism coming into play, rather than justice prevailing, either way.

Why is it that you believe the investigation was a joke? What do you think happened? What do you think the police did and did not do?

Here's another question: it took the police two days to find and notify the boy's parents. During this time, no one had filed a missing persons report. Why do you think that is. I mean, if the girlfriend really was talking to the boy when the scuffle happened, then why was no one concerned?

My only fear is that people like Eric Holder will use this to try and weaken the second ammendment and the stand your ground law.

"Capitol Hill lawmakers are doing more than donning hoodies on the House floor to respond to the death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin. Members of Congress are pushing new legislation calling for everything from gun control to restrictions on neighborhood watch groups. "

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04 ... z1qumFnLgy

Dovahkiin wrote:Before I go any further I just want to stop everyone say that SYG(Stand Your Ground) does not apply to this case. Even without SYG, Zimmerman would have been justified. Further, SYG is not a law. Rather it is a doctrine the law is based upon.

Fair enough, my comments are based off what ive read in regards to the case in Zimmermans defence and SYG is consistently referred to as the law being cited. I obviously defer to anyone who actually knows the fundamentals of it, because i don't

As for the reasons behind my belief the initial investigation was questionable (not a "joke"), i have a few which i have read through various american media outlets. It's my opinion based on these things, that the case wasn't handled well and a certain amount of ineptitude was displayed.

- The initial lead investigator recommended a manslaughter charge, stating he remained unconvinced of Zimmermans version of events. His senior disregarded this due to a lack of evidence. Further down the line, the man who turned down the initial recommendation of a manslaughter charge then stepped down from the case, citing an undisclosed conflict of interest in the case and refusing to disclose any reasons.

- Media outlets reported that At the scene, a witness made a statement detailing they heard Trayvon calling out for help, the witness was corrected by the interviewing officer, telling them it was zimmerman they heard. A further 2 witnesses attempted to report the yells of what they referred to as of a distressed young man, no officer came to interview them at any point.

- On the same day the Sanford PD investigation concluded, they requested charges against Zimmerman and filed them to the state attorney, while the police chief of the department declared publicly they had no cause to charge.

- Trayvon was drug and alcohol tested, Zimmerman, was not. Several sources have cited that Trayvon being tested was routine, but the fact the shooter was not is highly unusual in homicide cases, as was the fact that Zimmerman who has a police record, had no checks ran on him. He simply stated he had no record, and this was taken as fact at the scene.

- Trayvons body was identified and a partial report filed using his full name and DOB, yet it's reported he was John doe'd and no family notified until the missing persons report on 27th feb. As for the phone call, the phone records don't lie Trayvon was on the phone to his GF moments prior to the incident, i agree it's strange that if the convo went the same way she states it did the delay between the missing persons report and that conversation doesn't make sense, however that doesn't negate the fact the police had the info available to do their job and inform the family of his death.

- Police reports from the night were allegedly amended at a later date to include the grass stains and head/facial injuries Zimmerman suffered as they hadn't been included initially through clerical error.

Now, i have no stance on the guilt of Zimmerman, i just feel if these things are true the police have done themselves no favours, and the errors could impede justice being brought either way.

I could understand if you were referring to a piece of media, as it would no doubt be used as a means to illicit a sympathetic response. I can only speak for myself when i say the use of kid relates to nothing but my own colloquial use of the term for most people under 18.

Guess i'm getting old.

There were full toxicology tests done on Zimmerman. His record IS clean, he has no convictions.

It took two days for the parents to be notified because that's how long it for the police to identify Martin. Once again, no missing persons reports were filed.

At the time of the incident, Martin was visiting his dad, who visiting his girlfriend. No one knew them in the neighborhood. No adults were home at that.


Most of what the MSM news groups are reporting is crap. It's either misdirection, misinformation, mislead or flat out lies.

doc holliday wrote:My only fear is that people like Eric Holder will use this to try and weaken the second ammendment and the stand your ground law.

"Capitol Hill lawmakers are doing more than donning hoodies on the House floor to respond to the death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin. Members of Congress are pushing new legislation calling for everything from gun control to restrictions on neighborhood watch groups. "

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04 ... z1qumFnLgy

because laws allowing murder because you're "scared" are good?...

Dovahkiin wrote:There were full toxicology tests done on Zimmerman. His record IS clean, he has no convictions.

It took two days for the parents to be notified because that's how long it for the police to identify Martin. Once again, no missing persons reports were filed.

At the time of the incident, Martin was visiting his dad, who visiting his girlfriend. No one knew them in the neighborhood. No adults were home at that.


Most of what the MSM news groups are reporting is crap. It's either misdirection, misinformation, mislead or flat out lies.

Assulting a police officer a few years ago, is not a clean record.....

Perhaps you missed the part where i stated he has no convictions?

@Ra: Killing in self defense is not murder. Murder is a legal term and has a specific definition, especially for the purposes of law.

Dovahkiin wrote:Perhaps you missed the part where i stated he has no convictions?

@Ra: Killing in self defense is not murder. Murder is a legal term and has a specific definition, especially for the purposes of law.

semantics, an idiotic law allowing the killing of another because you're "scared" is absurd.

Ra wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:Perhaps you missed the part where i stated he has no convictions?

@Ra: Killing in self defense is not murder. Murder is a legal term and has a specific definition, especially for the purposes of law.

semantics, an idiotic law allowing the killing of another because you're "scared" is absurd.

My problem with it is how do you prove you were scared? How do you disprove it?

Dovahkiin wrote:Perhaps you missed the part where i stated he has no convictions?

@Ra: Killing in self defense is not murder. Murder is a legal term and has a specific definition, especially for the purposes of law.

I think you missed my point. . I didnt say anything about convitlctions..... Just that he didnt have a clean record like you said.

Unless you have been convicted, you have a clean record.

Ra wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:Perhaps you missed the part where i stated he has no convictions?

@Ra: Killing in self defense is not murder. Murder is a legal term and has a specific definition, especially for the purposes of law.

semantics, an idiotic law allowing the killing of another because you're "scared" is absurd.

You really do not understand the law. However it does not matter, because once again, SYG has no bearing on this case. Neither would Castle Doctrine. In fact, Zimmerman would have been justified in using lethal force in England as well and any other place that has duty to retreat.

Why? Because Zimmerman did not confront Martin, when the operator said that he did not need to follow Martin, Zimmerman ok and turned back to his car. He lost Martin. Martin came up behind Zimmerman, confronted Zimmerman, then attacked him. Martin's attack was not justified, as they had exchanged words and Martin attacked Zimmerman as Zimmerman was attempted to call the police back.

Martin struck Zimmerman in the face, breaking his nose and knocking him on his back. Martin then began to repeatedly slam Zimmerman's head into the ground. Eventually Martin attempted to grab Zimmerman's gun, it was during the struggle for the gun when Martin was shot. The autopsy, forensics, witness statements and Zimmerman's injuries support this version of events. Despite what the media would have you believe, the police did a full investigation of the events and Zimmerman was originally a suspect. It was later at the police station that Zimmerman was determined to be telling the truth and that it was a case of justified self defense.