2008 South Ossetia War

[[KMA]Avenger]

sigh, where to start?!?!

i wasn't trying to say it would be trench warfare but i seriously doubt ANY western/NATO force could deal with temperatures as low as 45c below zero, the russians proved during WW2 that while a modern army can function in low temperatures they cant deal with the arctic conditions in russian winter.
just ask any german survivor from that campaign, the russians traded land for time and when winter set in the russsians (the siberians to be exact) counter attacked while the germans had no hand weapons, no artillery and no planes because they had all frozen.

i obviously dont doubt that NATO forces have winter gear but i'm telling you here and now, NATO attacks russia and that will be that, NATO will get beaten to a bloody and very dead pulp.
don't underestimate russias capacity to trade both land and man power to draw an army to a place they don't want to be in order to stretch the aggressors lines of supply.

i'm not trying to defend russia here but its obvious that they are NOT the aggressors here, the western NATO forces are to blame for this mess and sanctions will only serve to further antagonize them...

and lets not forget that the israeli trained and american funded giorgians just got there bells rung!

[Demeisen]

NATO conducts arctic warfare training on a regular basis. a friend of mine went on such arctic training several months ago. his rifle worked, his clothing kept him warm, he had the equipment he needed, their vehicles worked, their helicopters worked and they were trained in survival/combat techniques.

the Russian scorched earth strategy worked in WWII but today's battlefield is very different. NATO would have no lack of winter clothing, military items or rations.

NATO spent decades preparing to fight Russia. obviously they would have developed equipment that worked in arctic environments. not doing so would be a huge and unthinkable oversight. their military hardware will not freeze. also, NATO has arctic countries with relevant cold weather experience. NATO maintains forces which are capable of fighting in all of the worlds various conditions.

again, NATO has been planning an attack on Russia throughout the cold war and continues to do so just in case its necessary. they wouldn't 'get beaten to a bloody and very dead pulp.' the traditional Russian strategy of retreat simply wont work on an organization such as NATO. it has the resources, training and capability to continue advancing.

don't underestimate Russia's capacity to trade both land and man power to draw an army to a place they don't want to be in order to stretch the aggressors lines of supply

i don't lol I've seen enemy at the gates. they use the real world military version of massing.

NATO has the ability to keep its troops armed and equipped. they will not advance beyond their means to do so. there are only so many troops that can be sacrificed to gain time and slow the west. eventually NATO would prevail, and at massive human costs to the Russian military. man for man NATO is superior.

i'm not trying to defend russia here but its obvious that they are NOT the aggressors here, the western NATO forces are to blame for this mess and sanctions will only serve to further antagonize them.

perhaps you missed the Russian invasion of Georgia? a potential NATO country. that seems rather confrontational to me.

and lets not forget that the israeli trained and american funded giorgians just got there bells rung!

Georgia tried to punch above their weight and failed. if Russia enters into a conventional conflict with NATO they will be punching above their weight and will fail.

[[KMA]Avenger]

i'm not trying to defend russia here but its obvious that they are NOT the aggressors here, the western NATO forces are to blame for this mess and sanctions will only serve to further antagonize them.

perhaps you missed the Russian invasion of Georgia? a potential NATO country. that seems rather confrontational to me.

i concede the other points because i pray that conflict never happens but i think you missed the REAL news on this point...

yes russia did invade Georgia but only AFTER their peace keepers were shot in the back by the Georgian peace keepers and after Georgian forces (trained by the israelis and armed by the americans) bombed and killed 2k+ Russian civis.

make no mistake, the Georgian prez (Shakesville) started this conflict at the behest of Israel and the west.

btw, you may also find it interesting to note that many of the Georgian cabinet members are NOT Georgian but they are Jewish.

[Demeisen]

yes russia did invade Georgia but only AFTER their peace keepers were shot in the back by the Georgian peace keepers and after Georgian forces (trained by the israelis and armed by the americans) bombed and killed 2k+ Russian civis.

the difference is that georgia had the legal right to take south ossetia back by force. although it was a poor choice on georgias part, they acted within international law. russia invaded a sovereign state. and do you mean the russian peacekeepers were literally shot in the back?

its not a sceret that israel trained certain georgian forces. not all, just some. and it seems that the vast majority of georgias military hardware is of russian origin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Georgia

Neistat [Anna Neistat of Human Rights Watch (HRW)] said that doctors at Tskhinvali hospital had provided figures that 273 wounded people had been treated there during the conflict and a total of 44 dead people had been brought to the city morgue. Russian and South Ossetian officials have claimed that 1,400 people were killed in the first day of fighting, mostly in Tskhinvali

make no mistake, the Georgian prez (Shakesville) started this conflict at the behest of Israel and the west.

is that an assumption? if not please post relevant sources to confirm this.

btw, you may also find it interesting to note that many of the Georgian cabinet members are NOT Georgian but they are Jewish.

a jew can be a georgian. do you mean foreign nationals (who are jewish) are members of the georgian cabinet? if so please post your sources for this information for others to investigate. thanks

[[KMA]Avenger]

how could Georgia have legal rights when the majority of the people living in the region which was bombed- consider themselves Russian and even hold Russian passports?

no assumptions mate, its fact, why do you think the Russians are so pissed with america instead of limiting their anger to the Georgians?

i first heard that the cabinet members were all of Jewish origin about 3 weeks ago on the radio and on the Alex Jones show as well as reading an article which said the same on sky news website but cant seem to find the article now (GRRRR).

i've googled for the cabinet members names but cant seem to find 1 website that lists the names, granted i haven't run an exhaustive search so very possible i've missed it.
be my guest and have a look for yourself, tho i don't know how much good it will do since i think theres going to be a cabinet reshuffle...could be wrong on that one.

[Juliette]

So according to you it is legitimate to give every Fleming a Dutch passport and claim Flanders as a Dutch province?

Because that's what Russia did.. they GAVE those "ethnic Ossetians" Russian passports.

[urogard]

yes russia did invade Georgia but only AFTER their peace keepers were shot in the back by the Georgian peace keepers and after Georgian forces (trained by the israelis and armed by the americans) bombed and killed 2k+ Russian civis.

the difference is that georgia had the legal right to take south ossetia back by force. although it was a poor choice on georgias part, they acted within international law. russia invaded a sovereign state. and do you mean the russian peacekeepers were literally shot in the back?

Ehm, fyi Georgia didn't have legal right.
It signed an agreement saying it would NEVER use force to settle these territorial disputes.
Go do some research first before you state anything.

And concerning peacekeeperes getting shot in the back...
Not quite but does come very close

Guess why the hell there were russian peacekeepers there in the first place.

Btw I'm still waiting for the response from you liquid.
Should ossetia and abkhazia go back to georgia or be allowed to be declared independent just like the west allowed with Kosovo.

So according to you it is legitimate to give every Fleming a Dutch passport and claim Flanders as a Dutch province?

If a significant majority of all fleming living there (95%+) would in a referendum state that they wish to be part of netherlands, just like the ossetians did, then i don't see an issue with it.

[[KMA]Avenger]

regardless if the Russians gave them or not, those people still consider themselves Russian by choice.

i saw a report of an American born girl being interviewed by FOX thanking the Russians because she was visiting family in Ossetia when it was attacked, her and her family were hiding in the basement and the Russians pulled them out and kept the family safe.
watch how the anchorman tries to cut them off just because the girl thanks the Russian soldiers and embarrasses fox because they have been reporting that it was Russian aggression that started this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41Nq6XEyKhE

[[KMA]Avenger]

sorry for the double post but this info deserves it...


[spoiler]The Puppet Masters Behind
Georgia President Saakashvili

By F. William Engdahl, 12 August, 2008


The controversy over the Georgian surprise military attacks on South Ossetia and Abkhazia on 8.8.08 makes a closer look at the controversial Georgian President and his puppet masters important. An examination shows 41 year old Mikhail Saakashvili to be a ruthless and corrupt totalitarian who is tied to not only the US NATO establishment, but also to the Israeli military and intelligence establishment. The famous ‘Rose Revolution of November 2003 that forced the ageing Edouard Shevardnadze from power and swept the then 36 year old US university graduate into power was run and financed by the US State Department, the Soros Foundations, and agencies tied to the Pentagon and US intelligence community.

Mihkail Saakashvili was deliberately placed in power in one of the most sophisticated US regime change operations, using ostensibly private NGOs (Non Governmental Organizations) to create an atmosphere of popular protest against the existing regime of former Soviet Foreign Minister Edouard Shevardnadze, who was no longer useful to Washington when he began to make a deal with Moscow over energy pipelines and privatizations.

Saakashvili was brought to power in a US-engineered coup run on the ground by US-funded NGO’s, in an application of a new method of US destabilization of regimes it considered hostile to its foreign policy agenda. The November 24 2003 Wall Street Journal explicitly credited the toppling of Shevardnadze's regime to the operations of "a raft of non-governmental organizations . . . supported by American and other Western foundations." These NGOs, said the Journal, had "spawned a class of young, English-speaking intellectuals hungry for pro-Western reforms" who were instrumental laying the groundwork for a bloodless coup.

Coup by NGO

But there is more. The NGOs were coordinated by the US Ambassador to Georgia, Richard Miles, who had just arrived in Tbilisi fresh from success in orchestrating the CIA-backed toppling of Slobodan Milosevic in Belgrade, using the same NGOs. Miles, who is believed to be an undercover intelligence specialist, supervised the Saakashvili coup.

It involved US billionaire George Soros’ Open Society Georgia Foundation. It involved the Washington-based Freedom House whose chairman was former CIA chief James Woolsey. It involved generous financing from the US Congress-financed National Endowment for Democracy, an agency created by Ronald Reagan in the 1980’s to “do privately what the CIA used to do,” namely coups against regimes the US Government finds unfriendly.

George Soros’ foundations have been forced to leave numerous eastern European countries including Russia as well as China after the 1989 student Tiananmen Square uprising. Soros is also the financier together with the US State Department of the Human Rights Watch, a US-based and run propaganda arm of the entire NGO apparatus of regime coups such as Georgia and Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution. Some analysts believe Soros is a high-level operative of the US State Department or intelligence services using his private foundations as cover.

The US State Department funded the Georgia Liberty Institute headed by Saakashvili, US approved candidate to succeed the no-longer cooperative Shevardnadze. The Liberty Institute in turn created “Kmara!” which translates “Enough!” According to a BBC report at the time, Kmara! Was organized in spring of 2003 when Saakashvili along with hand-picked Georgia student activists were paid by the Soros Foundation to go to Belgrade to learn from the US-financed Otpor activists that toppled Milosevic. They were trained in Gene Sharp’s “non-violence as a method of warfare” by the Belgrade Center for Nonviolent Resistance.

Saakashvili as mafioso President

Once he was in place in January 2004 as Georgia’s new President, Saakashvili proceeded to pack the regime with his cronies and kinsmen. The death of Zurab Zhvania, his prime minister in February, 2005, remains a mystery. The official version—poisoning by faulty gas heater—was adopted by American FBI investigators within two weeks of the killing. That has never seemed credible to those familiar with Georgia’s gangland slayings, crime, and other manifestations of social decay. Zhvania’s death was followed closely by a functionary of the Premier’s apparat, Georgi Khelashvili, who allegedly shot himself the day after his chief’s demise. The head of Zhvania’s research staff was later found dead as well.

Figures allied with Saakashvili reportedly had a hand in the premier’s death. Russian journalist Marina Perevozkina quoted Gia Khurashvili, a Georgian economist. Prior to the fatal incident, Mr. Khurashvili had published an article in Resonans newspaper opposing the privatization and sale of Georgia’s main gas pipeline. Ten days before the prime minister’s body was found, Khurashvili was attacked and his editor-in-chief—citing pressure from ‘security service’ figures he refused to name—issued him a warning.

The late premier’s position on the pipeline issue was believed the direct reason for the murder of Zhvania. Zhvania’s brother, Georgi, also told Perevozkina that not long before Zhvania’s death he received a warning that someone was preparing to kill his brother. Saakashvili was reportedly livid when the US State Department invited Zhvania to Washington to win a Freedom Medal from the US Government’s National Democratic Institute. Saakashvili tolerates no rivals for power it seems.

Saakashvili, who cleverly marketed himself as “anti-corruption,” appointed several of his family members to lucrative posts in government, giving one of his brothers a position as chief adviser on domestic issues to the Baku-Ceyhan Pipeline project, backed by British Petroleum and other oil multinationals.

Since coming to power in 2004 with US aid, Saakashvili has led a policy of mass-scale arrests, imprisonment, torture and deepened corruption. Saakashvili has presided over the creation of a de facto one-party state, with a dummy opposition occupying a tiny portion of seats in the parliament, and this public servant is building a Ceaucescu-style palace for himself on the outskirts of Tbilisi. According to the magazine, Civil Georgia (Mar. 22, 2004) until 2005, the salaries of Saakashvili and many of his ministers were reportedly paid by the NGO network of New York-based currency speculator Soros—along with the United Nations Development Program.

Israel US military train Georgian military

The current military assault on South Ossetia and Abkhazia, in violation of Saakashvili’s pledge to seek a diplomatic not military solution to the territorial disputes, is backed by US and Israeli military “advisers.” Israel’s Haaretz newspaper reported that on August 10, Georgian Minister of Reintegration, Temur Yakobshvili, “praised the Israel Defense Forces for its role in training Georgian troops and said Israel should be proud of its military might, in an interview with Army Radio. ‘Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers,’ Yakobashvili told Army Radio in Hebrew, referring to a private Israeli group Georgia had hired.”

One of the targets of Russian bombs near Tbilisi was, according to IsraelNN.com, “a Georgian military plant in which Israeli experts are upgrading jet fighters for the Georgian military… Russian fighter jets bombed runways inside the plant, located near Tbilisi, where Israeli security firm Elbit is in charge of upgrading Georgian SU-25 jets.”

Israeli Foreign Minister and candidate to succeed ousted Israeli Prime Minister, Olmert, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, proclaimed on August 10 that “Israel recognizes Georgia’s territorial integrity,” code for saying it backs Georgia’s attempt to take South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The reported 1,000 Israeli military advisers in Georgia were not alone. On July 15, the Reuters news wire carried the following report: “VAZIANI, Georgia - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise called “Immediate Response 2008,” in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia. The two-week exercise was taking place at the Vaziani military base near the capital Tbilisi, which was a Russian air force base until Russian forces withdrew at the start of this decade under a European arms reduction agreement... Georgia has a 2,000-strong contingent supporting the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, and Washington provides training and equipment to the Georgian military. The United States is an ally of Georgia and has irritated Russia by backing Tbilisi’s bid to join the NATO military alliance... “The main purpose of these exercises is to increase the cooperation and partnership between U.S. and Georgian forces,” Brig. Gen. William B. Garrett, commander of the U.S. military’s Southern European Task Force, told reporters.”

With Russia openly backing and training the indigenous military in South Ossetia and Abkhazia to maintain Russian presence in the region, especially since the US-backed pro-NATO Saakashvili regime took power in 2004, the Caucasus is rapidly coming to resemble Spain in the Civil War from 1936-1939 where the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and others poured money and weapons and volunteers into Spain in a devastating war that was a precursor to the Second World War.

In a curious footnote to the actual launch of military fighting on the opening day of the Olympics when Putin, George W. Bush and many world leaders were in Beijing far away, is a report in IsraelNN.com by Gl Ronen, stating that “The Georgian move against South Ossetia was motivated by political considerations having to do with Israel and Iran, according to Nfc. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili decided to assert control over the breakaway region in order to force Israel to reconsider its decision to cut back its support for Georgia's military.”

Ronen added, “Russian and Georgian media reported several days ago that Israel decided to stop its support for Georgia after Moscow made it clear to Jerusalem and Washington that Russia would respond to continued aid for Georgia by selling advanced anti-aircraft systems to Syria and Iran.” Israel plans to get oil and gas from the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline from the Caspian.

Although as of this writing Russian President Medvedev has announced Russia is halting its military response against Georgian targets, the situation is anything but stable. The insistence of Washington in bringing Georgia into its geopolitical sphere and backing an unstable regime around Mikhail Saakashvili may well have been the straw which broke the Russian camel’s patience if not his back.

Whether oil pipeline disputes or Russian challenges to Israel are the proximate trigger for Saakashvili’s dangerous game, it is clear that the volatile Georgian and his puppet masters may have entered a game where no one will be able to control the outcome.[/spoiler]

http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/








[spoiler]The signing on August 14 of an agreement between the governments of the United States and Poland to deploy on Polish soil US ‘interceptor missiles’ is the most dangerous move towards nuclear war the world has seen since the 1962 Cuba Missile crisis. Far from a defensive move to protect European NATO states from a Russian nuclear attack, as military strategists have pointed out, the US missiles in Poland pose a total existential threat to the future existence of the Russian nation. The Russian Government has repeatedly warned of this since US plans were first unveiled in early 2007. Now, despite repeated diplomatic attempts by Russia to come to an agreement with Washington, the Bush Administration, in the wake of a humiliating US defeat in Georgia, has pressured the Government of Poland to finally sign the pact. The consequences could be unthinkable for Europe and the planet.

The preliminary deal to place elements of the US global missile defense shield was signed by Polish Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer and US chief negotiator John Rood on August 14. Under the terms, Washington plans to place 10 interceptor missiles in Poland coupled with a radar system in the Czech Republic, which it ludicrously claims are intended to counter possible attacks from what it calls "rogue states," including Iran.

To get the agreement Washington agreed to reinforce Poland's air defenses. The deal is still to be approved by the two countries' governments and Poland's parliament. Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said in televised remarks that "the events in the Caucasus show clearly that such security guarantees are indispensable." The US-Polish missile talks had been dragging for months before recent hostilities in Georgia.

The Bush White House Press spoksperson, Dona Perino stated, officially, "We believe that missile defense is a substantial contribution to NATO's collective security." Officials say the interceptor base in Poland will be opened by 2012. The Czech Republic signed a deal to host a US radar on July 8.

The signing now insures an escalation of tensions between Russia and NATO and a new Cold War arms race in full force. It is important for readers to understand, as I detail painstakingly in my book, to be released this autumn, Full Spectrum Dominance: The National Security State and the Spread of Democracy, the ability of one of two opposing sides to put anti-missile missiles to within 90 miles of the territory of the other in even a primitive first-generation anti-missile missile array gives that side virtual victory in a nuclear balance of power and forces the other to consider unconditional surrender or to pre-emptively react by launching its nuclear strike before 2012. Senior Russian lawmakers said on Friday the agreement would damage security in Europe, and reiterated that Russia would now have to take steps to ensure its security.

Andrei Klimov, deputy head of the Russian State Duma's international affairs committee, said the deal was designed to demonstrate Warsaw's "loyalty to the US and receive material benefits. For the Americans, it is an opportunity to expand its military presence across the world, including closer to Russia. For NATO, this is an additional risk...many NATO countries are unhappy with this, including the Germans and the French."

Klimov called the agreement "a step back" toward the Cold War.

Russian response

The US plans to deploy a radar in the Czech Republic and 10 interceptor missiles in northern Poland as part of a US-controlled missile shield for Europe and North America, has been officially sold under the ludicrous argument that it is against possible attacks from "rogue states," including Iran. Last Spring then Russian President Vladimir Putin exposed the shallowness of the US propaganda line by offering a startled President Bush that Russia would offer the US use of Russian leased radar facilities in Azerbaijan on the Iran border to far better monitor Iran missile launches. The Bush Administration simply ignored the offer, exposing that their real target is Russia not "rogue states like Iran." Russia rightly views deployment of the US missile shield as a threat to its national security.

The latest Polish agreement advances a Russian response.

Russian officials earlier said Moscow could deploy its Iskander tactical missiles and strategic bombers in Belarus and Russia's westernmost exclave of Kaliningrad if Washington succeeded in its missile shield plans in Europe. Moscow also warned it could target its missiles on Poland.

Russia is also discussing to put in place an orbital ballistic missile system in response to US missile defense plans for Central Europe, according to a senior Russian military expert.

"A program could be implemented to create orbital ballistic missiles capable of reaching US territory via the South Pole, skirting US air defense bases," said Col. Gen. Viktor Yesin, former chief of staff of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces, now vice president of the Academy of Security, Defense and Law Enforcement Studies.

Previously as part of the post Cold War agreements with the US, agreements which have been ´significantly ignored by Washington as it pushed the borders of NATO ever closer to Moscow’s doorstep, the Soviet Union had abandoned such missiles in accordance with the START I Treaty.

Obama backs missile defense too

The deal would further divide European countries into what Barack Obama’s foreign policy adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski calls openly, US "vassals" and those pursuing more independent policies.

Any illusions that a Democratic Obama Presidency would mean a rollback of such provocative NATO and US military moves of recent years should be dismissed as dangerous wishful thinking. Obama’s foreign policy team in addition to father Zbigniew Brzezinski, includes Brzezinski’s son, Ian Brzezinski, current US Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for European and NATO Affairs. Ian Brzezinski is a devout backer of US missile defense policy, as well as Kosovo independence and NATO expansion into Ukraine and Georgia.[/spoiler]


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=9836



[spoiler]Pakistan reacts with fury after up to 20 die in ‘American’ attack on its soil



Simon Tisdall and Saeed Shah
London Guardian
Thursday, Sept 4, 2008

The war in Afghanistan spilled over on to Pakistani territory for the first time yesterday when heavily armed commandos, believed to be US Special Forces, landed by helicopter and attacked three houses in a village close to a known Taliban and al-Qaida stronghold.

The surprise attack on Jala Khel was launched in early morning darkness and killed between seven and 20 people, according to a range of reports from the remote Angoor Adda region of South Waziristan. The village is situated less than one mile from the Afghan border.

Local residents were quoted as saying that most of the dead were civilians and included women and children. It was not known whether any Taliban or al-Qaida militants or western forces were among the dead.


Furious official Pakistani condemnation of the attack followed swiftly, amid growing concern that the Nato-led war against the Taliban in Afghanistan could spread to Pakistan, sparking a region-wide conflagration.

Owais Ahmed Ghanisaid, the governor of North-West Frontier province, adjoining South Waziristan, said 20 people had died and called for retaliation. “This is a direct assault on the sovereignty of Pakistan and the people of Pakistan expect that the armed forces … would rise to defend the sovereignty of the country and give a befitting reply,” he said.

The foreign ministry in Islamabad termed the incursion “a gross violation of Pakistan’s territory” and a “grave provocation” which, it said, had resulted in “immense” loss of civilian life.[/spoiler]






all i have to say is...******* MANIACS!!!!!!!!!!

[urogard]

as i see we have the polish missile crisis underway

[[KMA]Avenger]

Could you possibly blow the situation out of proportion anymore?

hmmm...dont see how since russia has already said they will nuke poland and strike most of europe if they have to, as well as starting another cold war if thats what they decide

[S0lid Snake]

as i see we have the polish missile crisis underway

I hope Russia has a good counter part to JFK.

Check this out for an interesting look at a possible WW3:-

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-3/ww3.htm

I am in no way agreeing 100% that any of the above links and articles are 100% true and are going to happen.

I do however acknowledge the possibilities.

Either way, inaction will spell doom for us all.

[Thriller]

as i see we have the polish missile crisis underway

I hope Russia has a good counter part to JFK.

Check this out for an interesting look at a possible WW3:-

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-3/ww3.htm

I am in no way agreeing 100% that any of the above links and articles are 100% true and are going to happen.

I do however acknowledge the possibilities.

Either way, inaction will spell doom for us all.

What "action" do you recommend?

[Demeisen]

he probably thinks we should send an armada to iran to solve this problem. hmmm that idea sounds ridiculous, yet familiar

[[KMA]Avenger]

as i see we have the polish missile crisis underway

I hope Russia has a good counter part to JFK.

Check this out for an interesting look at a possible WW3:-

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-3/ww3.htm

I am in no way agreeing 100% that any of the above links and articles are 100% true and are going to happen.

I do however acknowledge the possibilities.

Either way, inaction will spell doom for us all.

What "action" do you recommend?

questioning the validity of what our govts are saying and saying NO MORE to them.

educate yourself and others around you and make them aware of govt agendas.

stop being a slave to govt policy and demand the return control of govt to the people.

demand the destruction of the central bank system and the power to issue currency be returned to the people and its govt.


need me to go on?