2008 South Ossetia War

[Zepeln]

Georgia is at fault, not Russia.

As for the server.. let's blame Buck!

I'd like to see the proof about the first part. From what I have seen from some Russians is that they are aggressive and boarish when they are outside their own borders. They are also very separated into socio-economic groups where the higher the group socially or monitarily the worse they treat those they feel are beneath them with the locals at the very bottom.

As for the server...........I blame Clarkey. While he was gone, no server shutdowns, he returns........coincidence, I think not. BTW welcome back

[Juliette]

Opinions please? Who's at fault in this conflict?

Georgia, by claiming an independent state as their own and moving tanks into Ossetia; Russia, by supporting their fellow Russians; and/or the International Community, by thinking they have a say in the matter?


Who will side with whom?

Let's make this clear, I support Russia in her defence of both her frontier integrity and her people. Added bonus is Putin's hotness.
The state of South Ossetia benefits from the Russian defence of her situation. The country is too small and underdeveloped to be viable without support from a 'higher' power; think of it as the Isle of Man. Would the Isle of Man be able to survive without Great Britain supporting it? (Not to take a jab at the Isle of Man, of course.. it's delightful.) Just as the Isle of Man would not be able to survive without Great Britain, South Ossetia cannot survive without either Georgian or Russian support. Seeing how South Ossetia has repeatedly made clear that they feel nothing for Georgia (99% vote, 95% turnout) and would much rather be Russian instead, I believe that it can safely be said that Ossetia (as a whole, including North Ossetia-Alania) is Russian.


To my knowledge, this is the most accurate description of how and when the war started.

On August 8, 2008, at the same time as the 2008 Olympics were officially started, Georgia military forces began hostilities against South Ossetia's forces in an attempt to re-establish control over the region. During the first day of military actions Georgia forces killed 1400 civilians and 15 Russian peacemakers by heavy artillery, aircraft and rifle-gun fire. In response, Russian forces moved into South Ossetia and began combat operations against Georgian military forces.

[Brdavs]

Update time?

Georgia is at fault, not Russia.

As for the server.. let's blame Buck!

I'd like to see the proof about the first part. From what I have seen from some Russians is that they are aggressive and boarish when they are outside their own borders. They are also very separated into socio-economic groups where the higher the group socially or monitarily the worse they treat those they feel are beneath them with the locals at the very bottom.

As for the server...........I blame Clarkey. While he was gone, no server shutdowns, he returns........coincidence, I think not. BTW welcome back

I dunno, you jsut have to forgoe the USSR/Russia fobia and get well informed about the situation?
Georgia sorta being the poor mans Serbia, Ossetia being the poor mans Kosovo and Russa being the nonblinkered man NATO?
But since its georgia who is pro US this week we`re rooting for them to roll their tanks over the freedome/independace fighters *km* sry, "seperatists that have had an illegal criminal regime for the past 18 years"...

And after that we`ll all lights some candles for Tibet and rue at chinese over Tieman Square.

Gimme a friggin brake.


Mother Russia kick some ass.

[semper]

well..I actually only found out georgia was a country in that region of the world about 2 weeks ago.

So I need to be doing some reading..lol, as this knowledge at least does not seem to be innate.

[Juliette]

Please debate the 2008 South Ossetian War here:
2008 South Ossetian War
Thanks..



*kicks servers*
C'mon, wake up.

[urogard]

I hope russia marches in on whole of georgia and takes it over.
Their president has been doing nothing else but troublemaking and inciting hate against russians since he put himself into office.

[Legendary Apophis]

Georgia's prez name is hard to pronounce, Shakashvili or something like that isn't it?
Anyway from what I seen, Ossetia has been invaded by Georgians, being bombarded etc...David vs Goliath, unfair fight I believe...so Russia dragged themselves into it.
If I recall; there was some incidents some monthes ago in Georgia, isn't it? Or maybe i'm mistaken..

Edit: from what Urogard said it looks like indeed there has been some things happening already.

[[KMA]Avenger]

this is a mess alright and civis will be caught in the middle and be killed as always in war...


Friday, August 8, 2008

Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax.

Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin threatened a “military response.”

Former Soviet Georgia called up its military reserves after Russian warplanes bombed its new positions in the renegade province.

In Moscow’s first response to the fall of Tskhinvali, president Dimitry Medvedev ordered the Russian army to prepare for a national emergency after calling the UN Security Council into emergency session early Friday.

Reinforcements were rushed to the Russian “peacekeeping force” present in the region to support the separatists.

Georgian tanks entered the capital after heavy overnight heavy aerial strikes, in which dozens of people were killed.

Lado Gurgenidze, Georgia’s prime minister, said on Friday that Georgia will continue its military operation in South Ossetia until a “durable peace” is reached. “As soon as a durable peace takes hold we need to move forward with dialogue and peaceful negotiations.”

DEBKAfile’s geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region.

The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

Saakashvili need only back away from this plan for Moscow to ditch the two provinces’ revolt against Tbilisi. As long as he sticks to his guns, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will wage separatist wars.

DEBKAfile discloses Israel’s interest in the conflict from its exclusive military sources:

Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean.

Aware of Moscow’s sensitivity on the oil question, Israel offered Russia a stake in the project but was rejected.


this is an invasion, and now we have so many wars going on around the world that its an extremely dangerous situation which could easily escalate into WW3/4








U.S. Attacks Russia Through Client State Georgia
Georgian forces, trained and equipped by the Pentagon and the U.S. government, killed 10 Russian peacekeepers early this morning in a provocation attack that has escalated into military conflict, but the subsequent corporate media coverage would have us believe that the U.S. and NATO-backed client state Georgia is a helpless victim, when in actual fact a far more nuanced geopolitical strategy is being played out.



this whole situation stinks to high heaven and the neocons are at it again and the backlash will be an increase in oil and food yet again...

i pray to god i am wrong on all counts, i really do.

[KnowLedge]

gorgia is dead.. for attacking russiaaaaaaa

[Legendary Apophis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... penditures

[[KMA]Avenger]

what really stinks about this mess is that Bush and the russian leader are both out of their respective country's and my guess is that Cheney is behind this mess, could be a power ploy on Cheney's part?!?!

the american and Georgians have attacked russia so what i would do would be to retaliate with such force i would put the fear of god into them and crush them before it escalates because if the russians go half arsed into this it will invite a response, take them out and do it quickly.

[Zepeln]

Update time?

Georgia is at fault, not Russia.

As for the server.. let's blame Buck!

I'd like to see the proof about the first part. From what I have seen from some Russians is that they are aggressive and boarish when they are outside their own borders. They are also very separated into socio-economic groups where the higher the group socially or monitarily the worse they treat those they feel are beneath them with the locals at the very bottom.

As for the server...........I blame Clarkey. While he was gone, no server shutdowns, he returns........coincidence, I think not. BTW welcome back

I dunno, you jsut have to forgoe the USSR/Russia fobia and get well informed about the situation?
Georgia sorta being the poor mans Serbia, Ossetia being the poor mans Kosovo and Russa being the nonblinkered man NATO?
But since its georgia who is pro US this week we`re rooting for them to roll their tanks over the freedome/independace fighters *km* sry, "seperatists that have had an illegal criminal regime for the past 18 years"...

And after that we`ll all lights some candles for Tibet and rue at chinese over Tieman Square.

Gimme a friggin brake.


Mother Russia kick some ass.

I am a bit older than you so I will start with the easy stuff first. Tibet was an independant country invaded by an larger imperialistic power. The people in Tieneman Square were non-violent protestors working with the confines of a political structure that allowed no political dissent. Russia has a long history of aggression against it's neighbors...ask Hungary or the Slovakia and the Czech Republics. It also has a history of violence against its own lesser residents....jews, gypsies, dissendents.....see the gulags and the 26 million of its own people that were killed as undesireables. Its backing of the ethnic cleansings by the government of Serbia on its neighbors. Russia's current government (composed mainly of ex-KGB, ex- GRU and party apparatchiks) assassinations of political adversarys and journalists inside or out its borders. It's attempt to assassinate the leader of the Ukraine. But if we forget all that history and just focus on the present, I guess then the Russia should get out of the provinces of Chechnya or Azerbijan which have both voted to separate from Russia.....before the tanks rode into there capitals. Personally, I have no problems with the majority of the russian people, I have problems with their government and the attitudes of the "businessmen" and "upperclass" they send out into the world. It is that I have learned my lessons from personal experience, and I hope none of you has to see the things I have.

[Apadamek]

well..I actually only found out georgia was a country in that region of the world about 2 weeks ago.

So I need to be doing some reading..lol, as this knowledge at least does not seem to be innate.

So gosh the point of that post was...was...nothing?


To the topic at hand; It's a pretty clear case of what happens when you split up a massive block of countries like the Soviet Union into these petty little countries. Georgia is clearly only attacking because of a desire to show the other neighboring former soviet states that it is a strong contender. These countries have allied themselves with the West as quickly as they could to defend against a growing Russia, what they're finding out is that they're striking out too late. Russia's grown too powerful and the West aren't going to stop what's happening in those countries.

I see the possibility of Russia taking over Georgia proper as high, as well as making some threatening moves toward other countries such as Estonia.

[Brdavs]

Now, ofcourse, I`m not as old as you, but dare I say that if you`re gonna bring up *history* you really ought to read up farther back than 50 years. Tibetan states were on/off voluntary/anexed part of China as far back as the 11th century. Infact whats the Chinese that installed Dalai Lama as both the spiritual leader and political leader of Tibet. Ending the fierce fragmentation. And dont forget that prior the godless commiess annexed them (again) Tibet was a prosperous place with populus eating dirt and averaging a 30 year lifespan.


But how does this, Stalin, KGB or G.W. have any barring on the Ossetian/Abkhazian fight for independance?
Hit the history books gramps, and you`ll find some interesting things about Ossetia... Like the fact 2/3 of it lies in russia. The fact that ossetians have far more in common with other ossetians and russians. That it was artificially divided by uncle Stalin and part of it now in conflict anexed to the soviet republic of Georgia and that they have been fighting for independance/return to its "matrix" ever since the collapse of the USSR. That after a bloody war when the whole world turned away it has been defacto independant form georgia and that the conflict was frozen for 15+ years by mainly russian peacekeepers? Up to the Kosovo precedens and the start of the olympic ceremony when georgians decided to "conquer them back".

Now tell me, just how is a georgian boot different form a chineese one? Other than georgias mini dictator is a great friend of the US/West that is. In my mind its not. Thats why I call all ppl sheding crocodile tears for Tibet but cussing at Russia over Ossetia hypocrites and political oportunists. Silly me eh?
Funny how "historically" China prolly has a better claim to Tibet than Georgia has to Ossetia. But noone cares.

But lets move this to the other thread...



Tnx for the ppt admin

[Demeisen]

russia may be a fallen superpower but it is still a great power. russian armed forces getting physically involved with this conflict is extremely dangerous. ossetia isnt russia so its not an invasion of russia. if it were i think the russians would take the gloves off at don a gauntlet.

this has to be handled very carefully to avoid an escalation. lol it seems georgia thought this a good chance to crush resistance. they put their paw in a trap and now its snapped closed. they cant fight russia. no way. they will back down or loose. the west wont intervene unless georgia itself is under threat of total invasion. russia knows this so it will not try to conquer them.

theres too much resources involved for any country to want a large scale war. all sides seem to have valid points for this conflict but launching the attack was not wise. diplomacy is better than war when the russians/west are involved.

i see this with ossetia becoming independant, with the west recognising it. georgia seems to have lost a lot of face in this and has diminished its position.