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[BoT] Jack wrote:Then don't go to those places that smokers congregate.

Oh, public places?

Removed

Kit-Fox wrote:Again, shops, restaurants, malls etc are *not* public places.

They are privately owned places & the owner graciously allows you access in order for them to sell you things. That access can be revoked or have conditions attached to it, such as accepting the owner allows smoking, if you dont like it tough its not your property

If the owner is going to allow free public access to it, then I'm afraid he must bow to the will of the public.

Is it the will of the public that has enforced this ban on smoking in Joe's bar/restaurant/whatever, or is it the Govt??

Don't try to argue that they are one and the same because i can prove they most certainly are not!

[KMA]Avenger wrote:Is it the will of the public that has enforced this ban on smoking in Joe's bar/restaurant/whatever, or is it the Govt??

Don't try to argue that they are one and the same because i can prove they most certainly are not!

.........................

Are you serious? Nevermind, I know you are.

WHYYY, would the government want to arbitrarily put in place such a ban? Of course it's the "will of the public."

places such as Parks,schools and recreational area's should be no smoking area's for more than 1 reason.

everywhere else such as pavements,bars ,clubs ,restaurants is game in my opinion.

thanks to all those Fighting the Non smokers on this

GOLDEN WING wrote:places such as Parks,schools and recreational area's should be no smoking area's for more than 1 reason.

everywhere else such as pavements,bars ,clubs ,restaurants is game in my opinion.

thanks to all those Fighting the Non smokers on this

I can only speak for Minnesota, but, here it is fine to smoke outside on the sidewalk. It's only places as defined as being free to public access: Businesses (which restaurants are), parks, malls, etc.

Indoor smoking bans I can understand in some places, no one wants someone smoking in a restaurant when your trying to eat, or in any indoor public service/building, library, bank, hospital etc. But smoking bans on all private pubs & clubs I dont agree with, if a pub or club chooses to allow smoking and you dont like it you can always go to one that chooses not to.

Outdoor smoking bans for health reasons, what a joke

Do you realise how much poisonous crap we all breath in, pollution from industry, power generation, car exhaust, the air quality in cities is so bad a few smokers puffing away are a drop in the ocean.

In the UK the tax revenues from smokers more than pays for the NHS, without smokers all the non-smokers would have to pay higher taxes to compensate. So they want our money but they dont want to see us consuming the poisons the legally sell us. If smoking is so evil the whole government should be charged with 'living off immoral earnings'.

I here the next PC move is to prevent you smoking in your OWN HOME if professionals are in the building, you get a builder in, or a plumber, electrician...

What next after that, will pregnant mothers be arrested for child abuse if they smoke ? And where will that lead, what if their diet is also harmful, will it be illegal to over eat, will pregnant women be reported for eating pizza !!


Personal freedoms are being eroded everyday, little by little with new laws, regulations, social stigmatisms created through the media.

Maybe the smoking one wont effect you personally, but others will.

Maybe phasing out smoking is for the best long term, but then so is phasing out alcohol, unhealthy foods, driving cars, having any of the luxury items we enjoy the industrial production of which causes pollution, switching on any non-essential electrical items powered by fossil fuel power plants, keeping pets like cats & dogs since the meat they eat has a high carbon footprint, everything from a beef burger to launching a satellite is bad for the public, will we phase it all out ????

You americans/brits/europeans have it easy on smoking laws... :X it's much more strict here in Canada, while different provinces have their own tobacco policies, they've recently banned smoking from within 10M of any entrance or exit, banned all displays of tobacco (It's all served from underneath covered displays), and some provinces have banned the sale of tobacco from any supermarket that also contains a pharmacy. Beyond that, there is no such thing as a bar/store/mall ect, with a smoking area and a not smoking area. Any public places is 100% smoking prohibited.

Most of these laws seem to be stepping over the line, especially the one that tells you where you can and can not smoke OUTSIDE. I mean it's outside for christ sake.

Do I think that there should be no restrictions on tobacco? No, even as a smoker myself, I can understand how others can feel discomfort, and shouldn't be subjected to our smoke at every turn, but the fact is, the laws keep getting more restrictive, and more ludicrous, where does it stop?

E.M.P. wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:Is it the will of the public that has enforced this ban on smoking in Joe's bar/restaurant/whatever, or is it the Govt??

Don't try to argue that they are one and the same because i can prove they most certainly are not!

.........................

Are you serious? Nevermind, I know you are.

WHYYY, would the government want to arbitrarily put in place such a ban? Of course it's the "will of the public."

Are you telling me that the public got together and made a law without Govt? if that's the case you guys have no cause to moan about unjust laws or crooked politicians, just get rid of them by "public will"!

Z E R O wrote:You americans/brits/europeans have it easy on smoking laws... :X it's much more strict here in Canada, while different provinces have their own tobacco policies, they've recently banned smoking from within 10M of any entrance or exit, banned all displays of tobacco (It's all served from underneath covered displays), and some provinces have banned the sale of tobacco from any supermarket that also contains a pharmacy. Beyond that, there is no such thing as a bar/store/mall ect, with a smoking area and a not smoking area. Any public places is 100% smoking prohibited.

Most of these laws seem to be stepping over the line, especially the one that tells you where you can and can not smoke OUTSIDE. I mean it's outside for christ sake.

Do I think that there should be no restrictions on tobacco? No, even as a smoker myself, I can understand how others can feel discomfort, and shouldn't be subjected to our smoke at every turn, but the fact is, the laws keep getting more restrictive, and more ludicrous, where does it stop?

Got to love Canada, beating baby Seals to death, thats fine, but having a smoke, thats sooooo bad lol

[KMA]Avenger wrote:

E.M.P. wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:Is it the will of the public that has enforced this ban on smoking in Joe's bar/restaurant/whatever, or is it the Govt??

Don't try to argue that they are one and the same because i can prove they most certainly are not!

.........................

Are you serious? Nevermind, I know you are.

WHYYY, would the government want to arbitrarily put in place such a ban? Of course it's the "will of the public."

Are you telling me that the public got together and made a law without Govt? if that's the case you guys have no cause to moan about unjust laws or crooked politicians, just get rid of them by "public will"!

I think most places rely on public enforcement, if the public ignored bans the police dont have the resources to enforce them.

Sadly people only care about the loss of freedoms that effect them, like I said before if the smoking ban dont effect you, other new laws will.

being a smoker, i have to say that here in iowa: i hate them. smokers (in most, but not all areas) are confined to "smoking" areas in various place. smoking in public buildings is banned.

i agree with the latter, being he building-banning.

HOWEVER.

the smoke given off in an open area outdoors has no CHANCE of effecting anyone in the vacinity, unless someone exhales in anothers face (in which case an innocent by-stander should probably punch our smoking-chum square in the face for being a **Filtered**). there's far too much oxygen in the open atmosphere to achieve a high enough solution to harm anyone. the worst part would be the odor for those who dont like it.

even as a smoker i wish i wasnt, so i understand the angst towards it. but unlike half my brainless country, i understand what i got myself into. maybe not at the time, but still...i do it for my own enjoyment, whereas other people may not for any random reason. the key to peace is kindness, but first you must be courteous to the guard to reach the door...unless you wana go afro-samaurai style

MEZZANINE wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:

E.M.P. wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:Is it the will of the public that has enforced this ban on smoking in Joe's bar/restaurant/whatever, or is it the Govt??

Don't try to argue that they are one and the same because i can prove they most certainly are not!

.........................

Are you serious? Nevermind, I know you are.

WHYYY, would the government want to arbitrarily put in place such a ban? Of course it's the "will of the public."

Are you telling me that the public got together and made a law without Govt? if that's the case you guys have no cause to moan about unjust laws or crooked politicians, just get rid of them by "public will"!

I think most places rely on public enforcement, if the public ignored bans the police dont have the resources to enforce them.

Sadly people only care about the loss of freedoms that effect them, like I said before if the smoking ban dont effect you, other new laws will.

I understand that mate, but that's not what EMP said, if that's what he meant he should have made that clear so i could respond accordingly...


@EMP,is what MEZZANINE said-what you actually meant?

E.M.P. wrote:

Kit-Fox wrote:Again, shops, restaurants, malls etc are *not* public places.

They are privately owned places & the owner graciously allows you access in order for them to sell you things. That access can be revoked or have conditions attached to it, such as accepting the owner allows smoking, if you dont like it tough its not your property

If the owner is going to allow free public access to it, then I'm afraid he must bow to the will of the public.

Mob rule FTW?

Nostra wrote:"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -- Benjamin Franklin

Is misinterpreted I think.

Freedom is one thing. Inflicting constrains freedom. Dissallowing smoking creates more freedom in public spaces than allowing it does.