So why do we pray?

[Brdavs]

Wether he is vain or not I do not know.

You say that he demands worship, could you cite a bible reference?

He did make the jews wander the desert for 40 years cos they didnt pay proper respects...

[Mister Sandman]

Who created the Devil?
Who created Adam and Eve?
You don't think god is responsible for evil if he created a world where it is aloud to exist?
Thoses christians who commited those terrible acts were following there consicence that was given to them by GOD acording to you
That quote was from an author............

I'm ignorant?, i'll take that as a compliment coming from you

You obviously have no idea what your talking about, you contradict yourself so much it makes any discussion impossible. I think i'll go back to smart asoness and leave the ""seriouse" discussion to others.

God created the heavens and the earth. However, you do not factor in the concept of free will.

An evil person justifies their act by any means necessary. That's the entire point. Religion isn't the sole requisite for justification.

Justification is just another name for excuse.

People do all kinds of things in the name of God and Jesus that He did not mandate, request, sanction, command or will. People do what they want to do, then find ways to justify what they're doing.

God knows what He has told someone to do and what He hasn't, and in the end He will reveal what was done according to His will and what was done according to man's own will, desires, lusts, greed, malice.

People's actions cannot be used fairly as an excuse to reject God. God will not buy that one. God is good, perfect, just, merciful, loving and fair. If someone does something against His will but in His name, we cannot hold that against God. And in the end, He won't allow us to.

In the end, each person will be accountable to God and there will be no room for excuses or self-justification. Either we sought God and allowed Him to transform us, or we didn't.

God will judge every person with fairness, and will judge the intents and motives of each person's heart.


[spoiler]"Every man's way is right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts." (Proverbs 21:2)

"The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates." (Psalms 11:5)

"Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts..." (1Corinthians 4:5)

"He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity." (Psalms 9:8)

"He is coming to judge the earth; He will judge the world with righteousness, And the peoples with equity." (Psalms 98:9)

"But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked." (Isaiah 11:4)

"And He [Jesus] said to them, 'You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.'" (Luke 16:15)

"For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

"All the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds." (Revelation 2:23)

"And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds." (Revelation 20:11-13)[/spoiler]

You say god is your friend and so the relationship is impotent as your relationship with your friend. But you see, god is no ordinary being is he? He is a super powerful being who made us. I be nice to my friends to get them to do stuff for me, does that mean that i need to do nice things for god to get him to do things for me? what different is there intellectually between my ordinary human friend and god?

God is, your creator, your father, your friend, your God.
There is a huge difference between your physical friends and the friendship you will find in God.
""does that mean that i need to do nice things for god to get him to do things for me? ""
No friendship works that way. A real friend would not think of what he gets in return. You do nice things for your friends, just because you are friends, without any expectation of getting something back.

you keep mentioning god as if he was 'my friend' but you see, if god's mind worked like my friends mind did, then the world would be alot different, do you understand what im saying? God's thinking must be different then "my friend's" otherwise there would be no difference between a god and my human friend.

As stated before God is more than just a friend.

just a little aside --> also mate, let me correct you by saying that in Hinduism, Deeds matter a lot. and even if you dont follow the religion, the deeds still count

However, it would only matter to the people following that religion, and noone else. Reason behind this is, to them it matters, to you it doesnt because they are underpinning their belief system onto how they view you.

you say that"If you do not believe in him, it is impossible to please God. Follow the logic?" and that "we live to please God" in point one. This is exactly what IMO is very selfish of god. This LAW that I MADE YOU SO YOU MUST WORSHIP ME. This makes him no different then a man.

How is that selfish? If you donot believe in God, i.e you think he doesnt exist and well how can you please something that doesnt exist?
We(Christians) live to please God, because we want to, not have to.

in point 3 you say that to live is to please god. to meet his highest happiness. Why is this necessiry? all the other points after this just state that "you must please god for it is ur duty"

It is the pleasure of bringing happiness. As said, its a want to please God. Pleasing him is good for all parties.

It is a duty in the sense of, How can a Christian call himself Christian if he doesnt strive to be Christlike?
I.E If a Christian is doing all these things he knows is 'wrong' or 'evil' and he expects that God will be pleased in what he has done. God does not delight in evil.

When you say "you are already saved by god", what actually are you talking about? and also "The thing is, without God you arnt really 'alive'." explain taht one too..

Im talking about, God has already made the sacrifice so you may come to him. Ergo, You are saved by grace, not by works.
You arnt really 'alive' in terms of spirituality and living up to your full potential.

I think mine and thriller's questions may be partially answered if you can explain us what you are talking about when you say that "you are already saved by god", are you saying that bringing us into existence is saving us? Noif so, then we did not ask for it did we? Wether you ask for it or not. You are here. That is a question for your parents aswell.like Thriller mentioned.. then if we didn't ask to be saved,All humans ask to be saved, in their hearts. then why must we prey for such event that we may not have asked for. OR better yet, if god is not self centered, then why does he require us to say "thank you"?He doesnt require a thank you. ^o) The options are: Hell because man ate of the forbidden fruit i.e Death. Or accept salvation and go to Heaven i.e Life,

[Thriller]

If justification means excuse

Then all your giving is excusses sandman.

If my free will alows me to superseed God's commandments than am I an equal to God?

If evil is not part of gods plan and my free will alows me to manifest evil, some part of me must be outside god's control.

But if god is capable of stopping me and allows me to commit acts of evil there is no better word to describe him than malvolent.

[KnowLedge]

Dude im getting tired from ur perching, ur like an ori prior.

my question:
"You say god is your friend and so the relationship is impotent as your relationship with your friend. But you see, god is no ordinary being is he? He is a super powerful being who made us. I be nice to my friends to get them to do stuff for me, does that mean that i need to do nice things for god to get him to do things for me? what different is there intellectually between my ordinary human friend and god?"


your reply :
"God is, your creator, your father, your friend, your God.
There is a huge difference between your physical friends and the friendship you will find in God.
""does that mean that i need to do nice things for god to get him to do things for me? ""
No friendship works that way. A real friend would not think of what he gets in return. You do nice things for your friends, just because you are friends, without any expectation of getting something back. "

you fail to answer my question. WHY must we please god. why does he require us to please him. What does it mean that "he has saved us" so we must please him. WHY are we bowing down to someone that is making us do things by giving us no choices? you dont asnwer my questions directly, u stray me off my thinking like a prior from sg1 does..

so u saiy that he gives us options
He doesnt require a thank you. ^o) The options are: Hell because man ate of the forbidden fruit i.e Death. Or accept salvation and go to Heaven i.e Life,

what kind of option are those? death or salvation.. kinda easy too choose dont you think? and to get salvation, YOU MUST Worship me!!

[Mister Sandman]

Dude im getting tired from ur perching, ur like an ori prior.

my question:
"You say god is your friend and so the relationship is impotent as your relationship with your friend. But you see, god is no ordinary being is he? He is a super powerful being who made us. I be nice to my friends to get them to do stuff for me, does that mean that i need to do nice things for god to get him to do things for me? what different is there intellectually between my ordinary human friend and god?"


your reply :
"God is, your creator, your father, your friend, your God.
There is a huge difference between your physical friends and the friendship you will find in God.
""does that mean that i need to do nice things for god to get him to do things for me? ""
No friendship works that way. A real friend would not think of what he gets in return. You do nice things for your friends, just because you are friends, without any expectation of getting something back. "

you fail to answer my question. WHY must we please god. why does he require us to please him. What does it mean that "he has saved us" so we must please him. WHY are we bowing down to someone that is making us do things by giving us no choices? you dont asnwer my questions directly, u stray me off my thinking like a prior from sg1 does..

Must we? We dont have to. He doesnt require us to please him. How is he making us do things, in the end it is our own free will.

However, being a Christian, I want to please God. Key word: Want.

so u saiy that he gives us options
He doesnt require a thank you. ^o) The options are: Hell because man ate of the forbidden fruit i.e Death. Or accept salvation and go to Heaven i.e Life,

what kind of option are those? death or salvation.. kinda easy too choose dont you think? and to get salvation, YOU MUST Worship me!!

Wrong, the options are. Not he gives the options.

He gives the option of being saved. If you arnt, you go to hell.

In simple English.

Humanity is already going to hell.

So, you either accept that. Or, you find away to go to Heaven, ego, by the means of getting saved by grace.

Salvation is a present, you just need to open it.

It isnt a you must worship me clause, it is your individual free will.

If my free will alows me to superseed God's commandments than am I an equal to God?

Lol, what are you smoking. Commandments i.e the ones that God told his people what they should follow?

Nothing is equal to God. God is almighty.

If evil is not part of gods plan and my free will alows me to manifest evil, some part of me must be outside god's control.

Control and course of action, are different. Gods plan is X, however you do Y. He isnt going to force you to do X, even though he can.

But if god is capable of stopping me and allows me to commit acts of evil there is no better word to describe him than malvolent.

Why would he be malevolent? You are the one committing the acts. Take responsibly for yourself.

[Thriller]

such a joke.. you never come close to coherent

What you don't get is that the creator shares some responsibility for his creation. Especiallly if your an all knowing, all powerful creator.

If i were to walk by and witness a women being raped and tortured in an alley, how would you look on me if i had the power do something but chose to walk away.

Malvolent is a kind discriptor given the circumstances.

If that example doesn't follow with you. Think about the quote from Openheimmer after the first atomic bomb test " No i am become death destroyer of worlds."

He understood the responsbility of creation.

[Mister Sandman]

such a joke.. you never come close to coherent

What you don't get is that the creator shares some responsibility for his creation. Especiallly if your an all knowing, all powerful creator.

If i were to walk by and witness a women being raped and tortured in an alley, how would you look on me if i had the power do something but chose to walk away.

Malvolent is a kind discriptor given the circumstances.

If that example doesn't follow with you. Think about the quote from Openheimmer after the first atomic bomb test " No i am become death destroyer of worlds."

He understood the responsbility of creation.

You pose the thought, that if God is Good, why is there evil?
Or, Why does God allow evil things to happen?

God is capable of preventing evil, and God desires to rid the universe of evil. Perhaps a good way to look at this issue would be to consider some alternative situations for how people might have God run the world:

1) God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin.
This, in turn will we would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Thus, all freewill is lost.
This henceforth causes the relationship between him and his creation (us) meaningless.

2) God could be compensating for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100% of the time.
For example, if a drunk driver causes an automobile accident, God would have to keep him and the people in the other automobile from getting harmed, for there would be many people who could possibly be caused to suffer from the accident or the death / injury of those involved in the accident.

3) Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all. We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.

In this real world of ours, our actions affect others. Because of Adam’s choice to sin, the world now lives under the curse, and we are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12).

When He created the Old Testament Laws, He established laws that discourage and punish evil. He judged nations and kings who disregard justice and pursue evil. Likewise in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13). He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially on the "innocent" (Mark 9:36-42).

We live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man
This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil.

[KnowLedge]

ok my question has still not been answered..

why does god require us to pray to him and only then will our wishes by fulfilled. How is praying equivalent to truely doing a 'good deed' such as donation?

[jedi~tank]

There loads of smart and religious people here.. I believe in god. But i cant figure out why we pray.

why does god want us to pray? why do we have to spend out time praying to a god when this god is said to be selfless.. Is your god shelfish? did he make a law that "if you pray to me, then i shell give u powers"?

What kind of God would do that..mine says he will empower me, not give me power.

[jedi~tank]

ok my question has still not been answered..

why does god require us to pray to him and only then will our wishes by fulfilled. How is praying equivalent to truely doing a 'good deed' such as donation?

OK to answer serious..talking..does your father not want you to talk to him? I mean the one at home..and if you have a wise dad..does not talking to him tend to open your mind, give you courage..insight or strength in an area that perhaps you lack?