Trayvon Martin

[Kit-Fox]

-Did Zimmerman go out with the intent to kill someone? There is no definative proof of this

-Did Zimmerman attack Martin first? Again there is no definative proof of this

-Did Martin attack Zimmerman first? Again there is no definative proof of this

-Was Martin acting in a manner that could cause reasonable suspicion? There appears to be evidence supporting this, but again its unlikely we'll ever find any definative proof one way or the other

-Did Zimmerman act in a manner contrary to the written law of the state he was in? It would appear he did not

-Is this about gun control? No, not really. Its about two individuals whose interaction proved tragic, without the firearm the interaction would still have proven tragic it would seem from publically available evidence.


Zimmerman can only be 'punished' by the state/federal authorities if he acted in a manner contrary to their written laws which as a citizen he has agreed to follow. The evidence *appears* to indicate that he has not acted contrary to those laws.

[Rudy Peña]

The police report states that Trayvon was found face down with his hands underneath his body. I am trying to picture all possible scenarios of him being on top of Zimmerman pummeling him, and then ending in that position after being shot, but I just don't see how it is possible. Who's to say that Zimmerman didn't self-inflict injuries to his nose and head to support his claims of self defense -- it would not be the first time in history that this has occurred.



Jack, How do you explain that in the police report, Martin was laying face down with his hands underneath his body??

If we go by what Zim has said, that Martin attacked him. And Martin on top, with Zim on bottom. How did Martin get in the position that the police found him? How can a man who is on top suddenly have both is arms and hands behind his back right after being shot?


Who's to say that Zimmerman didn't self-inflict injuries to his nose and head to support his claims of self defense -- it would not be the first time in history that this has occurred.

[Jack]

Hint; his Hands were not behind his back, they were close to his chest. His hands also had cuts and injuries that would be expected if he were grasping the slide when the gun was fired. The gun had a full clip and only the chambered found had been fired. Again, this supports the claim that Martin was trying to grab the gun.

[Tek]

I'd love to enter into debate on the matter, but it's becoming equally frustrating at one article trying to convince me Trayvon was a degenerate drug addict up to no good, while another paints zimmerman as a crazed vigilante with a dislike for black youths.

All the while both sides of either agenda try and make out the other side is twisting truths and manipulating evidence. Im out

[Psyko]

I'd love to enter into debate on the matter, but it's becoming equally frustrating at one article trying to convince me Trayvon was a degenerate drug addict up to no good, while another paints zimmerman as a crazed vigilante with a dislike for black youths.

All the while both sides of either agenda try and make out the other side is twisting truths and manipulating evidence. Im out

Exactly! Which is why I've not stepped my foot into it.

[Rudy Peña]

Hint; his Hands were not behind his back, they were close to his chest. His hands also had cuts and injuries that would be expected if he were grasping the slide when the gun was fired. The gun had a full clip and only the chambered found had been fired. Again, this supports the claim that Martin was trying to grab the gun.

His hand injuries can also be from when he saw zim get the gun than he tried to get it so he wont be shot?

As for Zim having a round in the chamber....its a bit odd to have one in the chamber if he was just going to the syore qnd back home.


Also i said underneath his body, not behind his back.

[Jack]

How can a man who is on top suddenly have both is arms and hands behind his back right after being shot?

Nothing is odd about Zimmerman carrying or how he carried. Not having a round in the chamber makes your gun an expensive paperweight. One in the chamber is the only way to carry unless you've had Israeli special forces training.

[Rudy Peña]

How can a man who is on top suddenly have both is arms and hands behind his back right after being shot?

Lol oh, that was a typo.

[Legendary Apophis]

They wanted a case of some racist white man killing a poor little innocent black boy in Florida to drive their ratings, and dammit they were going to get it even if they had to invent it.

[justify]That's exactly why I asked questions in my post and didn't pick a side before knowing the case, because I was suspect the affair was more complex than the medias did show. The Toulouse killings were a fine example that media assuming in advance about the nature/reasons of the killings can sometimes be completely wrong (medias assumed it was probably a white Neo-Nazi, while in reality, it happened to be a Salafism follower who trained with talibans, and of North African origin). Medias tried to turn it into what you describe happened for that Trayvon Martin affair too, a "racist white man" while it wasn't the case (some left wing journalists even admitted they were disappointed it wasn't a neo Nazi, as it destroyed their anti-right wing possible speech). Also, I mentioned "American-Peruvian" in my post. Just because I was guessing some people didn't know that thing, to prevent them going on the speech "racist white 'caucasian' man against black man".[/justify]

[MEZZANINE]

Zimmerman arrested today for murder


911 Call Zimmerman made before the shooting was played on the news is clear that the police asked Zimmerman 'Are you following him', when Zimmerman replied 'YES' the Police said 'Dont do that, we will deal with it'


Zimmerman ignored the police, continued to follow, then confronted, fought with and ended up shooting Martin dead

Thats what happens when amateurs try to do police work they have are not trained or qualified to do

[Jack]

Not even close to being true.

Zimmerman is charged with Murder 2, not murder 1. Neither charge really applies well to this situation. A lot of people are surprised she did not go for manslaughter, a more appropriate charge. Some think that she doesn't really want to secure a conviction as she is not convinced he is guilty. Most believe her decision was based on public pressure. I think she is hoping he will plea to manslaughter if she threatens murder 2.

The police dispatcher told Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that" Zimmerman said ok and headed back to his car.

The autopsy, the physical evidence, they all support Zimmerman's claims of what happened.

[Ra]

Not even close to being true.

Zimmerman is charged with Murder 2, not murder 1. Neither charge really applies well to this situation. A lot of people are surprised she did not go for manslaughter, a more appropriate charge. Some think that she doesn't really want to secure a conviction as she is not convinced he is guilty. Most believe her decision was based on public pressure. I think she is hoping he will plea to manslaughter if she threatens murder 2.

The police dispatcher told Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that" Zimmerman said ok and headed back to his car.

The autopsy, the physical evidence, they all support Zimmerman's claims of what happened.

Seems to be the correct charge actually..

murder in the second degree - an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"

voluntary manslaughter - voluntary manslaughter is commonly defined as an intentional killing in which the offender had no prior intent to kill, such as a killing that occurs in the "heat of passion." The circumstances leading to the killing must be the kind that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed; otherwise, the killing may be charged as a first-degree or second-degree murder.

I don't think Zimmerman was emotionally disturbed.. just an idiot with a gun

[Jack]

Murder 2 in Florida requires some other crime. If Zimmerman was not justified in self defense, he still would have had to commit another crime for it be murder 2.

[[KMA]Avenger]

http://www.infowars.com/mike-tyson-kill ... zimmerman/

Tyson admits he wasn’t there, so he is not certain what happened – including the possibility Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin in self-defense – but says Zimmerman needs to be shot anyway.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/mike ... 03402.html



Tyson needs a new brain because the one he has is clearly not working, possibly due to that blow he received from Buster Douglas all those years ago


On a side note, this is being engineered into a race war by the media and Obama...not good!

[Jack]

MSNBC has admitted doctoring the audio of the call Zimmerman made to the police.

The affidavit of probable cause issued by the prosecutor has been deemed laughably weak by many law experts.

Photos have surfaced showing multiple injuries on the back of Zimmerman's head.

Seems to me like a clear cut case of lawful self defense, even in places like Britain. Blows to the headed, especially repeated blows that slam the head into concrete are considered deadly force. Since Martin was on top of Zimmerman, he could not escape. Therefore the use of deadly force to protect himself from his attacker would be legal even in DTR jurisdictions.