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There are so many variables that this thread is rather pointless. Firstly, an invasion of either side is barely likely to be successful, unless one side has the modern equivalent of Alexander leading them. Military transport ships are very vulnerable, same goes for transport planes. After all, both sides have advanced airforces. There is no TRUE Superpower left. A superpower is able to project their power to any part of the world. The USA and Europe, as well as Russia can project power beyond their boundaries but not against EACH OTHER.

I bet some people are thinking that the USA has way more nukes than Europe. Between France and Britain, hell Britain alone has enough nukes to ensure that the USA would cease to exist as a nation. It's estimated the UK has 40-100 nukes, some in storage, some active. All it will take is the destruction of 10 of the USA's major cities and an attack on the the 'breadbasket of America' to cause such. And no doubt the reverse is also true. Until someone develops a full proof defence against nukes, both sides are assured of MAD.

So, neither side would win a war against each other...but USA against China, that's a whole different ball game. For all China's brashness, it is extremely vulnerable to various forms of attack.

Like you said, there's the second largest standing army and arguably the most advanced weapons, even barring nuclear and other fission weapons.

You say the US is fractured, and if the US would lose, that leads to other factors that would be an issue for any would-be conquerors. Resistance groups would be homegrown and separate, much like a cell based resistance, but with even less contact. It would be completely impossible to root out all of them.

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:There are so many variables that this thread is rather pointless. Firstly, an invasion of either side is barely likely to be successful, unless one side has the modern equivalent of Alexander leading them. Military transport ships are very vulnerable, same goes for transport planes. After all, both sides have advanced airforces. There is no TRUE Superpower left. A superpower is able to project their power to any part of the world. The USA and Europe, as well as Russia can project power beyond their boundaries but not against EACH OTHER.

I bet some people are thinking that the USA has way more nukes than Europe. Between France and Britain, hell Britain alone has enough nukes to ensure that the USA would cease to exist as a nation. It's estimated the UK has 40-100 nukes, some in storage, some active. All it will take is the destruction of 10 of the USA's major cities and an attack on the the 'breadbasket of America' to cause such. And no doubt the reverse is also true. Until someone develops a full proof defence against nukes, both sides are assured of MAD.

So, neither side would win a war against each other...but USA against China, that's a whole different ball game. For all China's brashness, it is extremely vulnerable to various forms of attack.

Remind me again, how many American military bases are located in Europe vs how many European military bases are located in America, please.

For the record, America's military projection abilities outweigh even that of every other military in the world combined. Not saying that means we can take on the world, just stating a fact. =P

Jack wrote:

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:There are so many variables that this thread is rather pointless. Firstly, an invasion of either side is barely likely to be successful, unless one side has the modern equivalent of Alexander leading them. Military transport ships are very vulnerable, same goes for transport planes. After all, both sides have advanced airforces. There is no TRUE Superpower left. A superpower is able to project their power to any part of the world. The USA and Europe, as well as Russia can project power beyond their boundaries but not against EACH OTHER.

I bet some people are thinking that the USA has way more nukes than Europe. Between France and Britain, hell Britain alone has enough nukes to ensure that the USA would cease to exist as a nation. It's estimated the UK has 40-100 nukes, some in storage, some active. All it will take is the destruction of 10 of the USA's major cities and an attack on the the 'breadbasket of America' to cause such. And no doubt the reverse is also true. Until someone develops a full proof defence against nukes, both sides are assured of MAD.

So, neither side would win a war against each other...but USA against China, that's a whole different ball game. For all China's brashness, it is extremely vulnerable to various forms of attack.

Remind me again, how many American military bases are located in Europe vs how many European military bases are located in America, please.

For the record, America's military projection abilities outweigh even that of every other military in the world combined. Not saying that means we can take on the world, just stating a fact. =P

Are you implying that the USA could launch an invasion of Europe using those bases?lol If a war WERE to break out, those bases would either be nullified or in European hands within days. Did you actually read what I wrote? Do you REALLY believe the USA could successfully project it's military power against certain countries? I'm not talking about 'two-bob' states like Iraq etc. And even there, the American public seem to have such a weak collective will, they want out for the loss of what is a fraction compared to the wars of the recent past. Of course I won't deny the same isn't true in Europe. The general public of this generation are weak willed, more interested in their little comforts than doing what is right.

hmmm...i don't think America would launch an invasion of any kind if a war of the western powers was to break out.
i'm researching HAARP (amongst other things) at the moment and if what i have learned so far is true, HAARP has the power to flatten any nation on the planet without so much as a marine setting foot on foreign soil...

apparently, HAARP has the power to modify the weather and to cause earthquakes as well as other things including mind control. there's a growing belief that HAARP was responsible for China's earthquake last year. there's no conclusive proof of that so i'm treating it as hearsay, but what i did last year was look at a geological map of the world with all the recent earthquake activity plotted on the map and MANY of the quakes both on land and at sea started at the same depth. i'm no scientist but that strikes me as odd but not impossible.

i dont have the link and cant remember the site i visited but will try and find it later.

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:

Jack wrote:Remind me again, how many American military bases are located in Europe vs how many European military bases are located in America, please.

For the record, America's military projection abilities outweigh even that of every other military in the world combined. Not saying that means we can take on the world, just stating a fact. =P

Are you implying that the USA could launch an invasion of Europe using those bases?lol If a war WERE to break out, those bases would either be nullified or in European hands within days. Did you actually read what I wrote? Do you REALLY believe the USA could successfully project it's military power against certain countries? I'm not talking about 'two-bob' states like Iraq etc. And even there, the American public seem to have such a weak collective will, they want out for the loss of what is a fraction compared to the wars of the recent past. Of course I won't deny the same isn't true in Europe. The general public of this generation are weak willed, more interested in their little comforts than doing what is right.

Oh you.

Why would we invade Europe as a whole? Why wouldn't we just invade the UK and tell Germany and France to stay out of it, where do Europeans have this idea of total co-operation when they can barely get countries to accept a common currency. The US is greater then any single European nation, they just can't compare. And as for all the points of 'history lol' that Europeans claim to have, we have just as much history just not European history. Also our government has been the same stable government from the late 1790's (IIRC) while Frances has barely been out of the 60's (IIRC) and the UK was still ruled by a king totally in the 1800's, Germany was two states 30 years ago, Russia was a monarchy 100 years ago. As far as "history" of a nation, in regards to the Russian Federation, or the United Kingdom, the US has almost every European country beat, once again.

CRASSUS wrote:

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:

Jack wrote:Remind me again, how many American military bases are located in Europe vs how many European military bases are located in America, please.

For the record, America's military projection abilities outweigh even that of every other military in the world combined. Not saying that means we can take on the world, just stating a fact. =P

Are you implying that the USA could launch an invasion of Europe using those bases?lol If a war WERE to break out, those bases would either be nullified or in European hands within days. Did you actually read what I wrote? Do you REALLY believe the USA could successfully project it's military power against certain countries? I'm not talking about 'two-bob' states like Iraq etc. And even there, the American public seem to have such a weak collective will, they want out for the loss of what is a fraction compared to the wars of the recent past. Of course I won't deny the same isn't true in Europe. The general public of this generation are weak willed, more interested in their little comforts than doing what is right.

Oh you.

Why would we invade Europe as a whole? Why wouldn't we just invade the UK and tell Germany and France to stay out of it, where do Europeans have this idea of total co-operation when they can barely get countries to accept a common currency. The US is greater then any single European nation, they just can't compare. And as for all the points of 'history lol' that Europeans claim to have, we have just as much history just not European history. Also our government has been the same stable government from the late 1790's (IIRC) while Frances has barely been out of the 60's (IIRC) and the UK was still ruled by a king totally in the 1800's, Germany was two states 30 years ago, Russia was a monarchy 100 years ago. As far as "history" of a nation, in regards to the Russian Federation, or the United Kingdom, the US has almost every European country beat, once again.

Here's a little fact buddy. The USA is independent today simply because Britain's main source of attention at the time of the War of Independence was India. The Indian rulers used to go to war with their harems and a huge amount of wealth, with HUGE armies. To the British, it was like manna from heaven. There is a reason India was called the 'Jewel in the Crown'. Of course I don't deny the US would have gained independence, even without a war, as Britain had too many rivals to consolidate it's forces. A major European war or two would have weakened the Empire past breaking point. And that's exactly what happened.

As for the modern US invading the UK, you seem to forget what I mentioned above. The UK doesn't need Germany and France or the rest of Europe to cause the USA damage. Nukes are a wonderful deterrent. And any British government that even thinks about giving up the UK's nuclear capability should all be shot as traitors.

Just because our revolution was lucky enough to be during a successful time for us, doesn't take away from the fact that the modern English Government is younger then our own.

As for the UK's nukes, get real. You really think that if we wanted to invade the UK the United States wouldn't destroy the nuclear weapons? We could pepper every square inch of the UK with a cruise missile and come in and take over the wreckage.

i'll tell you yanks what...

how about you divert several million dollars worth of bombs from bombing the Afghans and Iraqis into the stone age and drop them on Parliament and Buckingham palace?

believe me, you'd be doing the world and the British people a HUGE favour...whether they realize it or not

CRASSUS wrote:Just because our revolution was lucky enough to be during a successful time for us, doesn't take away from the fact that the modern English Government is younger then our own.

As for the UK's nukes, get real. You really think that if we wanted to invade the UK the United States wouldn't destroy the nuclear weapons? We could pepper every square inch of the UK with a cruise missile and come in and take over the wreckage.

lmao u DO realise the UK's nuclear deterrance are nuclear subs. The USA can barely 'pepper' a thirdworld country let alone a nuclear power.

Read something before talking nonsense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Armed_Forces

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:

CRASSUS wrote:Just because our revolution was lucky enough to be during a successful time for us, doesn't take away from the fact that the modern English Government is younger then our own.

As for the UK's nukes, get real. You really think that if we wanted to invade the UK the United States wouldn't destroy the nuclear weapons? We could pepper every square inch of the UK with a cruise missile and come in and take over the wreckage.

lmao u DO realise the UK's nuclear deterrance are nuclear subs. The USA can barely 'pepper' a thirdworld country let alone a nuclear power.

Read something before talking nonsense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Armed_Forces

Oh subs! WHATEVER SHALL WE DO ABOUT SUBS!? FOUR WHOLE SUBS! WE CAN'T TAKE FOUR! THAT'S MORE THEN THREE!

The US doesn't do it to Iraq because the civilian casualties would cause tremendously bad press and make the population go against us. Seeing as MOST of the UK would probably not be big on invasion, we probably wouldn't really care about the bad press and rebellion it would form. I'm not saying the US invading the UK is likely, I'm just saying the US would kick the UK's ass.

CRASSUS wrote:

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:

CRASSUS wrote:Just because our revolution was lucky enough to be during a successful time for us, doesn't take away from the fact that the modern English Government is younger then our own.

As for the UK's nukes, get real. You really think that if we wanted to invade the UK the United States wouldn't destroy the nuclear weapons? We could pepper every square inch of the UK with a cruise missile and come in and take over the wreckage.

lmao u DO realise the UK's nuclear deterrance are nuclear subs. The USA can barely 'pepper' a thirdworld country let alone a nuclear power.

Read something before talking nonsense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Armed_Forces

Oh subs! WHATEVER SHALL WE DO ABOUT SUBS!? FOUR WHOLE SUBS! WE CAN'T TAKE FOUR! THAT'S MORE THEN THREE!

The US doesn't do it to Iraq because the civilian casualties would cause tremendously bad press and make the population go against us. Seeing as MOST of the UK would probably not be big on invasion, we probably wouldn't really care about the bad press and rebellion it would form. I'm not saying the US invading the UK is likely, I'm just saying the US would kick the UK's ass.

And you think it's easy to locate such subs do ya? By the time you'd locate the active ones, NY and Washington DC would be under mushroom clouds.
You are one of those people who seems to think that only the US has access to modern military tech and the rest live in the stone age. lol

Would the USA win eventually? Most probably! But by the end of it, the vultures will be circling.

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:

CRASSUS wrote:

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:

CRASSUS wrote:Just because our revolution was lucky enough to be during a successful time for us, doesn't take away from the fact that the modern English Government is younger then our own.

As for the UK's nukes, get real. You really think that if we wanted to invade the UK the United States wouldn't destroy the nuclear weapons? We could pepper every square inch of the UK with a cruise missile and come in and take over the wreckage.

lmao u DO realise the UK's nuclear deterrance are nuclear subs. The USA can barely 'pepper' a thirdworld country let alone a nuclear power.

Read something before talking nonsense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Armed_Forces

Oh subs! WHATEVER SHALL WE DO ABOUT SUBS!? FOUR WHOLE SUBS! WE CAN'T TAKE FOUR! THAT'S MORE THEN THREE!

The US doesn't do it to Iraq because the civilian casualties would cause tremendously bad press and make the population go against us. Seeing as MOST of the UK would probably not be big on invasion, we probably wouldn't really care about the bad press and rebellion it would form. I'm not saying the US invading the UK is likely, I'm just saying the US would kick the UK's ass.

And you think it's easy to locate such subs do ya? By the time you'd locate the active ones, NY and Washington DC would be under mushroom clouds.
You are one of those people who seems to think that only the US has access to modern military tech and the rest live in the stone age. lol

Would the USA win eventually? Most probably! But by the end of it, the vultures will be circling.

Maybe, but you really think we couldn't detect your subs? The rest don't live in the stone age, just a bit behind us. We can detect British subs anytime we want, we have contact with them throughout the sea because of our alliance, they are detectable by our stuff.

CRASSUS wrote:

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:

CRASSUS wrote:

SSG EnterTheLion wrote:

CRASSUS wrote:Just because our revolution was lucky enough to be during a successful time for us, doesn't take away from the fact that the modern English Government is younger then our own.

As for the UK's nukes, get real. You really think that if we wanted to invade the UK the United States wouldn't destroy the nuclear weapons? We could pepper every square inch of the UK with a cruise missile and come in and take over the wreckage.

lmao u DO realise the UK's nuclear deterrance are nuclear subs. The USA can barely 'pepper' a thirdworld country let alone a nuclear power.

Read something before talking nonsense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Armed_Forces

Oh subs! WHATEVER SHALL WE DO ABOUT SUBS!? FOUR WHOLE SUBS! WE CAN'T TAKE FOUR! THAT'S MORE THEN THREE!

The US doesn't do it to Iraq because the civilian casualties would cause tremendously bad press and make the population go against us. Seeing as MOST of the UK would probably not be big on invasion, we probably wouldn't really care about the bad press and rebellion it would form. I'm not saying the US invading the UK is likely, I'm just saying the US would kick the UK's ass.

And you think it's easy to locate such subs do ya? By the time you'd locate the active ones, NY and Washington DC would be under mushroom clouds.
You are one of those people who seems to think that only the US has access to modern military tech and the rest live in the stone age. lol

Would the USA win eventually? Most probably! But by the end of it, the vultures will be circling.

Maybe, but you really think we couldn't detect your subs? The rest don't live in the stone age, just a bit behind us. We can detect British subs anytime we want, we have contact with them throughout the sea because of our alliance, they are detectable by our stuff.

lmao! Because of THEIR alliance? The whole point of this thread is hypothetical where the UK and USA are enemies. So basically both militaries operating in the fog of war.

You ever thought about the logistics of invading a 1st world nation with a significant population over the distance of the Atlantic? Aircraft carriers would have to be used to get planes in range..vulnerable to attack by the RAF. Troop transports vulnerable to the British navy. I could go on..It's way easier to invade a nation which has no proper airforce or navy. The cost would far outweigh the gains. And China's leaders will be rubbing their hands in glee because by the end they WILL be the new Superpower.


Ofcourse don't misunderstand me, I am not anti-American..hell most of my girlfriends were American lol. But facts are facts. We live in a multipolar world where the top power IS the USA, but not so powerful it could invade the next 5-6 other powers without paying a greater cost than it would like.

The nation that discovers a 100 percent effective defence against nuclear weapons can destroy anyone with impunity. But until that happens don't hold your breath.

CRASSUS wrote:Why would we invade Europe as a whole? Why wouldn't we just invade the UK and tell Germany and France to stay out of it...

because you would fail, completely and utterly

the last time mainland britain was succesfully invaded was 1066, almost a thousand years, several hundred years before the USA was even known about!

Britain was able to defend herself against Napolean, who commanded the majority of Europe at the time, and relatively speaking, was likely a greater threat than the current USA. Not only that, we fought against the USA at the same time