debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

Kit-Fox wrote:I dont suppose you could nutshell those Vids please KMA, I@m not a fan of watching stuff on Youtube.

Maybe a couple of sentences for each vid just to give me some idea please?

Sorry limited bandwidth out here in the countryside. Need to know its gonna be worthwhile.



all those films are worth it if you care about your health mate...but for those with limited BW...


done :-)


PS, generally speaking now, NONE of what's in those films is to be believed WITHOUT your own investigations. all the info needed to find out the truth is in those films.
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

ghostly gools giant troll was the best part of this thread
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

this one is for Thriller. a lecture by Dr. Stanley Montieth on the affects of water fluoridation...but i have no doubt you will do 1 of 2 things, either not watch it or carry on as usual
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhSj43N8Y8Q


http://fluoridealert.org/
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

Why can't i do both.. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive you know.

here is my evidence of why your argument is stupid

http://www.cancer.ca/Canada-wide/Preven ... sc_lang=en

The Canadian Cancer Society recognizes the importance of weighing the possible risks and the benefits for complex issues. On the basis of current evidence, it appears unlikely that water fluoridation increases the risk of osteosarcoma in humans. At the same time, the health benefits of water fluoridation have been proven, especially for people who have less access to dental care. As new research on the health impacts of water fluoridation becomes available, the Canadian Cancer Society will evaluate it thoroughly and keep Canadians informed.


A family member of mine works for these people, so be nice

It's not anything as substantial as a youtube video but i think they might know what they are talking about.
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

and Dr's Mullinex and Monteith as well as many other Dr's dont know what they are talking about?

what if your family members have been educated badly and lied to regarding fluorides safety?

how come Nazi and Communist Russia's studies show Fluoride removes aggression and pasifies people which is why its in prozac and other anti-depressants/psychotics?

how come its the only ingredient in rat poison?

why have whole reports showing MANY detrimental affects and raised levels of cancer in rodents been falsified?

if Fluoride is so good, then how come some people get dental Fluorosis?


why doesnt Europe fluoridate its water since its so good?

the list of questions go on and on and yet no credible independent study has been done AND published...why is that?



you need to tell your family members to do some serious digging...or carry on believing the hype....


did you watch the film and look at the site?
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

You ask alot of "questions"

too bad they are all based on unsubstantiated premises.

I'll give you an example of what your doing;

I heard that you practice ritualized chicken killing and blood drinking in your basement avenger.
I have not heard you refute these claims.. so they must be true? right?
otherwise you would deny it.

read the link i gave you avenger, it address all of your "concerns" with citations and everything....
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

since you seem to be so....hell-bent on ignoring the facts: http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/tee ... temic.html


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“I say this in all earnestness and sincerity of a scientist,
who has spent nearly 20 years of research into the chemistry,
biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorides.
Any Person Who Drinks Artificially Fluoridated Water
For A Period of One Year or More,
Will NEVER AGAIN, BE THE SAME PERSON.”
~ Charles Elliot Perkins ~


Actual studies, (like the one done by the National Institute of Dental Research) on 39,000 children, show no significant difference in number of cavities on those who drank fluoridated water, vs. those who didn't.
In fact, fluoride can give you "dental fluorosis" a sophisticated name for brown, pitted teeth.

OTHER FACTS:
In 1954, the Christian Science Monitor surveyed all 81 Nobel Prize winners in the fields of chemistry, medicine and physiology on their opinion regarding water fluoridation. Seventy-nine percent failed to endorse water fluoridation.

Fluoride Poisoning & Cancer:
Fluoride can give you a lot of other things too, namely cancer, including osteosarcoma in children.

Qualified scientists in numerous laboratory tests have found that fluoride in water, even 1.0 part per million, (the amount typically used in water fluoridation) is a carcinogen and mutagen.

Fluoridation of water causes 20,000 plus cancer deaths per year in the U.S.

Other Poisoning Maladies:
If you're pregnant, fluoride may increase your chances of having a child with Down's syndrome.

If you're a senior, it will make you more likely to have hip fractures.

If you're a virile guy, it could make you infertile as it tends, (according to a study in India) to cause testicular damage.

A little fluoride goes a long way, because it accumulates in the bones, teeth, in our food chain and within the environment.

Fluoridated Water Often Contains Other Highly Toxic Materials:
The fluoride that is most likely added to your water supply, is really hydrofluorosilicic acid in a "hazardous waste liquor" which also contains lead, mercury, beryllium, radioactive material, arsenic and other pollutants.

The Cover-up:
"Fluoridation is an attempt by industry to camouflage their deadliest pollutant, with government officials and Madison Avenue advertisers beating the drums. The fluoridation empire is like a castle built on quicksand." says Gladys Caldwell, author, "Fluoridation and Truth Decay," 1974.

As far back as April of 1950 in the Journal of the American Dental Association, (Vol. 40:440) a study by G. J. Cox and H.C. Hodge, "Toxicity of Fluorides in Relation to Their Use in Dentistry", made it clear that fluoride is a poison: "Some of the basic and necessary metabolic processes in the cell are stopped by concentrations of fluorides such as those found in acute poisoning. These changes are comparable to those seen in high-grade anoxia (lack of sufficient oxygen in the body tissues) and are the basis for describing fluorides as general protoplasmic poisons."

Historically, Fluorides WERE Used -- For Mind Control:
Research scientist, Charles Elliot Perkins, (sent by the U.S. Government to take charge of I.G. Farben chemical plants in Germany following WWII) discovered that;
"The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination, control and loss of liberty." In his report to the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research in October of 1954, he said, "Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him."

PROZAC:
This is why Fluorides are a key ingredient of PROZAC and many other psychiatric drugs ... PROZAC, scientific name Fluoxetine, is 94% fluoride.



"At the end of the Second World War, the United States Government sent Charles Eliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farben chemical plants in Germany.

"While there, he was told by German chemists of a scheme which had been worked out by them during the war and adopted by the German General Staff.

"This was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water. In this scheme, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place.

"Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. "Both the Germans and the Russians added sodium fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners of war to make them stupid and docile."

In a book written by Dr Hans Moolenburgh of Haarlem, Holland, called Fluoride - The Freedom Fight, the author describes the ultimately successful endeavors to free the Dutch people from water fluoridation. (Those endeavors included the only properly conducted double-blind study ever done anywhere in the world into the effects of tap water.)

One brief passage is headed "Perkins", and a reproduction of that section gives sufficient confirmation, by a remote and independent source, of the "**Filtered** Statement" as printed in Hansard, to reinforce the need for additional investigation into this one 'behaviour control' aspect of the 'fluoride debate' and relate it to 1987. (The entire "Perkins" paragraph is reproduced below.)

Elsewhere in this book, Dr Moolenburgh also relates how that first "Perkins" anecdote was confirmed in differing ways and from reliable independent sources.

"PERKINS"
"When 1971 was drawing to a close, I received a paper containing a strange story. This story was to haunt us repeatedly throughout the long, drawn-out battle. It was a story resembling science fiction - bizarre and unbelievable. There are those who warned me not to even mention this story, and I can appreciate why. On the other hand, the task of an historian is not to relate things as they should have happened, but as they actually did happen."

The Perkins saga was different from other fluoride stories.

"The story of industries hoodwinking the public into buying a pollutant as a medicine is simply 'whodunnit'. Grotesque though it may sound, it is no more that 'the consumer fraud of this polluted century' (as described in Fluoridation and Truth Decay by Gladys Caldwell). But the story I now read was different: it gave one the cold shivers. It told of a chemical engineer, Mr. Perkins, who related how immediately after the Second World War he was one the Americans put into the well-known I.G.Farben Company in Germany. There he discovered that I.G.Farben had developed plans during the war to fluoridate the occupied countries, because it had been found that fluoridation caused slight damage to specific parts of the brain. This damage had a very particular effect. It mad it more difficult for the person affected to defend his freedom. He became more docile towards authority.








6) Ingestion of fluoride has little benefit, but many risks. Whereas fluoride's benefits come from topical contact with teeth, its risks to health (which involve many more tissues than the teeth) result from being swallowed.

Adverse effects from fluoride ingestion have been associated with doses attainable by people living in fluoridated areas. For example:

a) Risk to the brain. According to the National Research Council (NRC), fluoride can damage the brain. Animal studies conducted in the 1990s by EPA scientists found dementia-like effects at the same concentration (1 ppm) used to fluoridate water, while human studies have found adverse effects on IQ at levels as low as 0.9 ppm among children with nutrient deficiencies, and 1.8 ppm among children with adequate nutrient intake. (7-10)

b) Risk to the thyroid gland. According to the NRC, fluoride is an “endocrine disrupter.” Most notably, the NRC has warned that doses of fluoride (0.01-0.03 mg/kg/day) achievable by drinking fluoridated water, may reduce the function of the thyroid among individuals with low-iodine intake. Reduction of thyroid activity can lead to loss of mental acuity, depression and weight gain (11)

c) Risk to bones. According to the NRC, fluoride can diminish bone strength and increase the risk for bone fracture. While the NRC was unable to determine what level of fluoride is safe for bones, it noted that the best available information suggests that fracture risk may be increased at levels as low 1.5 ppm, which is only slightly higher than the concentration (0.7-1.2 ppm) added to water for fluoridation. (12)

d) Risk for bone cancer. Animal and human studies – including a recent study from a team of Harvard scientists – have found a connection between fluoride and a serious form of bone cancer (osteosarcoma) in males under the age of 20. The connection between fluoride and osteosarcoma has been described by the National Toxicology Program as "biologically plausible." Up to half of adolescents who develop osteosarcoma die within a few years of diagnosis. (13-16)

e) Risk to kidney patients. People with kidney disease have a heightened susceptibility to fluoride toxicity. The heightened risk stems from an impaired ability to excrete fluoride from the body. As a result, toxic levels of fluoride can accumulate in the bones, intensify the toxicity of aluminium build-up, and cause or exacerbate a painful bone disease known as renal osteodystrophy. (17-19)



The industrial chemicals used to fluoridate water may present unique health risks not found with naturally-occurring fluoride complexes . The chemicals - fluorosilicic acid, sodium silicofluoride, and sodium fluoride - used to fluoridate drinking water are industrial waste products from the phosphate fertilizer industry. Of these chemicals, fluorosilicic acid (FSA) is the most widely used. FSA is a corrosive acid which has been linked to higher blood lead levels in children. A recent study from the University of North Carolina found that FSA can - in combination with chlorinated compounds - leach lead from brass joints in water pipes, while a recent study from the University of Maryland suggests that the effect of fluoridation chemicals on blood lead levels may be greatest in houses built prior to 1946. Lead is a neurotoxin that can cause learning disabilities and behavioural problems in children. (20-23)

Water fluoridation’s benefits to teeth have been exaggerated. Even proponents of water fluoridation admit that it is not as effective as it was once claimed to be. While proponents still believe in its effectiveness, a growing number of studies strongly question this assessment. (24-46) According to a systematic review published by the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long Term Care, "The magnitude of [fluoridation's] effect is not large in absolute terms, is often not statistically significant and may not be of clinical significance." (36)

a) No difference exists in tooth decay between fluoridated & unfluoridated countries. While water fluoridation is often credited with causing the reduction in tooth decay that has occurred in the US over the past 50 years, the same reductions in tooth decay have occurred in all western countries, most of which have never added fluoride to their water. The vast majority of western Europe has rejected water fluoridation. Yet, according to comprehensive data from the World Health Organization, their tooth decay rates are just as low, and, in fact, often lower than the tooth decay rates in the US. (25, 35, 44)

b) Cavities do not increase when fluoridation stops. In contrast to earlier findings, five studies published since 2000 have reported no increase in tooth decay in communities which have ended fluoridation. (37-41)

c) Fluoridation does not prevent oral health crises in low-income areas. While some allege that fluoridation is especially effective for low-income communities, there is very little evidence to support this claim. According to a recent systematic review from the British government, "The evidence about [fluoridation] reducing inequalities in dental health was of poor quality, contradictory and unreliable." (45) In the United States, severe dental crises are occurring in low-income areas irrespective of whether the community has fluoride added to its water supply. (46) In addition, several studies have confirmed that the incidence of severe tooth decay in children (“baby bottle tooth decay”) is not significantly different in fluoridated vs unfluoridated areas. (27,32,42) Thus, despite some emotionally-based claims to the contrary, water fluoridation does not prevent the oral health problems related to poverty and lack of dental-care access.



i've given you enough to make you stop and think and do your own research into the matter. at this point i would ask you put all your prejudices and preconceived notions of me, forget the crap, go and see for yourself.
take a deep breath empty all that negative and false logic running through your brain thats stopping you from approaching this with an open mind...


and if what i've just said fails, and if all of the above also fails, then find a toothpaste packet and read the warning. this is what it says:

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now, whats the amount we are supposed to put on our tooth brushes as opposed to what you see on the TV?
on the TV we see a brush and someone squirts the whole brush, but when you read the warnings on the boxes and the inserts we are only supposed to put a pea sized amount and no more. i've got 3 kids and i can tell you when you first start brushing their teeth, they always swallow the paste. so according to the manufacturer and NO ONE else...we are poisoning our kids whenever we put paste in their mouths and they swallow.


i rest my case!
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

Dr. Dean burque is in the minority of scientists who think water flurodation is a bad thing.

I'm not going to take anything seriously from the christian science monitor. Those scientists probably just refused to talk with that wackjob group.

While decades of research have shown that water fluoridation helps to prevent tooth decay, there is also a smaller and significantly weaker body of scientific evidence about a potential relationship between exposure to high levels of fluoride in drinking water and cancer, particularly osteosarcoma in boys younger than 19. Osteosarcoma is a type of rare bone cancer . According to Canadian Cancer Statistics, one–hundred and seventy cases of osteosarcoma were reported in between 1997 and 2001, an average of 34 cases per year.

Numerous studies have shown no link between water fluoridation and an increased risk of osteosarcoma in either humans or rats. For example, the United States Food and Drug Administration evaluated the incidence of bone cancer for the period 1958-1987, using 40 international cancer registries. No relationship was observed between water fluoridation and bone cancer incidence. At least 7 additional studies, by groups including the Department of National Health and Welfare (now Health Canada), the Government of Canada, the United States Department of Health and Human Services and independent academic investigators have failed to observe a link between water fluoridation and the incidence of osteosarcoma.

However, a few studies have suggested a possible link. For example, a study on rats and mice conducted in 1990 by the National Toxicology Program of the United States found uncertain evidence that exposure to very high levels of fluoride in drinking water (100 or 175 parts per million, or milligrams per liter) increases the risk of osteosarcoma in male rats, but not in female rats or in male or female mice. However, subsequent studies have not confirmed this observation. Instead, the National Toxicology Program recently performed this experiment again using even higher levels of fluoride in drinking water (200 parts per million, or 200 milligrams per liter) and found no increase in osteosarcoma. It is important to recognize that the rats in this study were drinking water fluoridated at 200 times the recommended level in Canada.

In human beings, some early research showed a link between water fluoridation and an increased risk of cancer. However, this relationship disappeared when researchers controlled for socio-economic differences. More recently, an analysis led by Dr EB Bassin showed an increased risk of osteosarcoma in young boys (ages 6-8) consuming water that met the target level for fluoridation, relative to boys who consumed water containing 70% less fluoride. No such effect was observed in girls. The authors of the Bassin article acknowledge that their work has limitations, including a small number of study participants and potential misclassification. They admit that further research is needed to confirm their exploratory analysis.

The Bassin article is a preliminary analysis of 15-year effort to study fluoride and osteosarcoma by the Harvard School of Dental Medicine and collaborating organizations. The study’s principal investigator, Dr CW Douglass, is currently analyzing data gathered over a longer time period than was used in the Bassin article, providing a larger sample size. Dr Douglass reports that his study has not found the same association reported by Dr Bassin. Publication of his results will provide important further information as to whether and to what extent an association may exist between osteosarcoma and exposure to fluoride.

In May 2009, the California Environmental Protection Agency announced that they would be evaluating the cancer risks associated with fluoride consumption. This review has been designated as a high priority.

The Canadian Cancer Society will continue to monitor this issue and inform Canadians about the health impacts of the fluoride in their drinking water. At this time, the weight of the scientific evidence, as assessed by independent committees of experts and analysis of the findings of individual and combined studies does not support an association between water fluoridated at levels optimal for health and the risk for cancer, including osteosarcoma.



Since we both have competing sources on this, we will have to agree to disagree i guess. Or we will have to invalidate the others base. My source is conducting on going research on a regular basis and basing it's findings on science conductd in the last year. But Yours, not so much
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

"Qualified scientists in numerous laboratory tests have found that fluoride in water, even 1.0 part per million, (the amount typically used in water fluoridation) is a carcinogen and mutagen."

mine not so much eh? well, i lean towards caution so will minimize my contact with something so dangerous and you carry on drinking the stuff, and we can at least agree to disagree :-)
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

lol you understand what objecctive means right? It's kinda of a big thing in science

consider that word when getting sources from places named
Fluoridealert
.org
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Universe wrote:You don't have a case, as Lord Thriller clearly explained.
MajorLeeHurts wrote:^ stole the car and my Booze and my heart * sobs*
Jack wrote: Just wanna be more like you, Master Thriller. :-D
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

always with the criticism without your own research, oh thats very objective on your part!

do i not always say "go look for yourself"? i have done just that and i ask no more of anyone else. i link to the sites which have the info, its down to you from then on to take the info and go see for yourself if the info is correct or not. you don't want to do that, then that's your problem and not mine.
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

You know what bias is right?

I do and thats why i didnt go to fluoridedisausome.com for my information.

You need to stop your confirmation bias and stop getting information from poeple who suffer from that same infliction.

then ill take this stuff seriously
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Universe wrote:You don't have a case, as Lord Thriller clearly explained.
MajorLeeHurts wrote:^ stole the car and my Booze and my heart * sobs*
Jack wrote: Just wanna be more like you, Master Thriller. :-D
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

sigh, there is no getting through to you is there?!

i've given you the info, go and see for yourself to help yourself and those you care about or not, i really dont care. i've done my bit by researching for myself the Govts own white papers and academias reports and warnings and then telling you (and others obviously) to look for yourselves because something is not right.

as i said, you don't want to do that, then carry on drinking rat poison because something that kills rats must be good for us #-o :roll:
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Re: debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

i have drunk it all my life without a problem.

I bet my smoking will kill me long before the fluoride does. :razz:
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Universe wrote:You don't have a case, as Lord Thriller clearly explained.
MajorLeeHurts wrote:^ stole the car and my Booze and my heart * sobs*
Jack wrote: Just wanna be more like you, Master Thriller. :-D
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