To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

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To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

[spoiler]Early history

[edit] Ancient games

Documented evidence of what is possibly the oldest activity resembling football can be found in a Chinese military manual written during the Warring States Period in about the 476 BC–221 BC. It describes a practice known as cuju (蹴鞠, literally "kick ball"), which originally involved kicking a leather ball through a hole in a piece of silk cloth strung between two 30-foot (9.1 m) poles. During the Han Dynasty (206 BC–220 AD), cuju games were standardized and rules were established. Variations of this game later spread to Japan and Korea, known as kemari and chuk-guk respectively. By the Chinese Tang Dynasty (618–907), the feather-stuffed ball was replaced by an air-filled ball and cuju games had become professionalized, with many players making a living playing cuju. Also, two different types of goal posts emerged: One was made by setting up posts with a net between them and the other consisted of just one goal post in the middle of the field.

The Japanese version of cuju is kemari (蹴鞠), and was adopted during the Asuka period from the Chinese. This is known to have been played within the Japanese imperial court in Kyoto from about 600 AD. In kemari several people stand in a circle and kick a ball to each other, trying not to let the ball drop to the ground (much like keepie uppie). The game appears to have died out sometime before the mid-19th century. It was revived in 1903 and is now played at a number of festivals.

The Ancient Greeks and Romans are known to have played many ball games some of which involved the use of the feet. The Roman writer Cicero describes the case of a man who was killed whilst having a shave when a ball was kicked into a barber's shop. The Roman game harpastum is believed to have been adapted from a team game known as "επισκυρος" (episkyros) or phaininda that is mentioned by Greek playwright, Antiphanes (388–311 BC) and later referred to by Clement of Alexandria. These games appears to have resembled rugby.
An illustration from the 1850s of Australian Aboriginal hunter gatherers. Children in the background are playing a football game, possibly Marn Grook.
An illustration from the 1850s of Australian Aboriginal hunter gatherers. Children in the background are playing a football game, possibly Marn Grook.[2]

There are a number of references to traditional, ancient, and/or prehistoric ball games, played by indigenous peoples in many different parts of the world. For example, in 1586, men from a ship commanded by an English explorer named John Davis, went ashore to play a form of football with Inuit (Eskimo) people in Greenland.[3] There are later accounts of an Inuit game played on ice, called Aqsaqtuk. Each match began with two teams facing each other in parallel lines, before attempting to kick the ball through each other team's line and then at a goal. In 1610, William Strachey of the Jamestown settlement, Virginia recorded a game played by Native Americans, called Pahsaheman. In Victoria, Australia, indigenous people played a game called Marn Grook ("ball game"). An 1878 book by Robert Brough-Smyth, The Aborigines of Victoria, quotes a man called Richard Thomas as saying, in about 1841, that he had witnessed Aboriginal people playing the game: "Mr Thomas describes how the foremost player will drop kick a ball made from the skin of a possum and how other players leap into the air in order to catch it." It is widely believed that Marn Grook had an influence on the development of Australian rules football (see below).

Games played in Central America with rubber balls by indigenous peoples are also well-documented as existing since before this time, but these had more similarities to basketball or volleyball, and since their influence on modern football games is minimal, most do not class them as football.

These games and others may well go far back into antiquity and may have influenced later football games. However, the main sources of modern football codes appear to lie in western Europe, especially England.

[edit] Medieval and early modern Europe

Further information: Medieval football

The Middle Ages saw a huge rise in popularity of annual Shrovetide football matches throughout Europe, particularly in England. The game played in England at this time may have arrived with the Roman occupation, but the only pre-Norman reference is to boys playing "ball games" in the ninth century Historia Brittonum. Reports of a game played in Brittany, Normandy, and Picardy, known as La Soule or Choule, suggest that some of these football games could have arrived in England as a result of the Norman Conquest.
An illustration of so-called "mob football".
An illustration of so-called "mob football".

These forms of football, sometimes referred to as "mob football", would be played between neighbouring towns and villages, involving an unlimited number of players on opposing teams, who would clash in a heaving mass of people, struggling to move an item such as an inflated pig's bladder, to particular geographical points, such as their opponents' church. Shrovetide games have survived into the modern era in a number of English towns (see below).

The first detailed description of football in England was given by William FitzStephen in about 1174–1183. He described the activities of London youths during the annual festival of Shrove Tuesday:

After lunch all the youth of the city go out into the fields to take part in a ball game. The students of each school have their own ball; the workers from each city craft are also carrying their balls. Older citizens, fathers, and wealthy citizens come on horseback to watch their juniors competing, and to relive their own youth vicariously: you can see their inner passions aroused as they watch the action and get caught up in the fun being had by the carefree adolescents.[4]

Most of the very early references to the game speak simply of "ball play" or "playing at ball". This reinforces the idea that the games played at the time did not necessarily involve a ball being kicked.

In 1314, Nicholas de Farndone, Lord Mayor of the City of London issued a decree banning football in the French used by the English upper classes at the time. A translation reads: "[f]orasmuch as there is great noise in the city caused by hustling over large foot balls [rageries de grosses pelotes de pee] in the fields of the public from which many evils might arise which God forbid: we command and forbid on behalf of the king, on pain of imprisonment, such game to be used in the city in the future." This is the earliest reference to football.

The earliest mention of a ball game that involves kicking was in 1321, in Shouldham, Norfolk: "[d]uring the game at ball as he kicked the ball, a lay friend of his... ran against him and wounded himself".[5]

In 1363, King Edward III of England issued a proclamation banning "...handball, football, or hockey; coursing and cock-fighting, or other such idle games", showing that "football" — whatever its exact form in this case — was being differentiated from games involving other parts of the body, such as handball.

King Henry IV of England also presented one of the earliest documented uses of the English word "football", in 1409, when he issued a proclamation forbidding the levying of money for "foteball".[5][6]

There is also an account in Latin from the end of the 15th century of football being played at Cawston, Nottinghamshire. This is the first description of a "kicking game" and the first description of dribbling: "[t]he game at which they had met for common recreation is called by some the foot-ball game. It is one in which young men, in country sport, propel a huge ball not by throwing it into the air but by striking it and rolling it along the ground, and that not with their hands but with their feet... kicking in opposite directions" The chronicler gives the earliest reference to a football field, stating that: "[t]he boundaries have been marked and the game had started.[5]

Other firsts in the mediæval and early modern eras:

* "a football", in the sense of a ball rather than a game, was first mentioned in 1486.[6] This reference is in Dame Juliana Berners' Book of St Albans. It states: "a certain rounde instrument to play with ...it is an instrument for the foote and then it is calde in Latyn 'pila pedalis', a fotebal."[5]
* a pair of football boots was ordered by King Henry VIII of England in 1526.[7]
* women playing a form of football was in 1580, when Sir Philip Sidney described it in one of his poems: "[a] tyme there is for all, my mother often sayes, When she, with skirts tuckt very hy, with girles at football playes."[8]
* the first references to goals are in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. In 1584 and 1602 respectively, John Norden and Richard Carew referred to "goals" in Cornish hurling. Carew described how goals were made: "they pitch two bushes in the ground, some eight or ten foote asunder; and directly against them, ten or twelue [twelve] score off, other twayne in like distance, which they terme their Goales".[9] He is also the first to describe goalkeepers and passing of the ball between players.
* the first direct reference to scoring a goal is in John Day's play The Blind Beggar of Bethnal Green (performed circa 1600; published 1659): "I'll play a gole at camp-ball" (an extremely violent variety of football, which was popular in East Anglia). Similarly in a poem in 1613, Michael Drayton refers to "when the Ball to throw, And drive it to the Gole, in squadrons forth they goe".[/spoiler]

If you're too lazy to read all, just take a look at dates, and then at americn football:

[spoiler]History

Main article: History of American football

An early American football team, from the turn of the twentieth century
An early American football team, from the turn of the twentieth century

The history of American football can be traced to early versions of rugby football and soccer. Both games have their origin in varieties of football played in the United Kingdom in the mid-19th century, in which a ball is kicked at a goal and/or run over a line. Also like soccer, American football has twenty two players on the field of play. Furthermore, some player position references from soccer are used, such as the term "halfback" and "fullback".

American football resulted from several major divergences from rugby football, most notably the rule changes instituted by Walter Camp, considered the "Father of American Football". Among these important changes were the introduction of the line of scrimmage and of down-and-distance rules. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, gameplay developments by college coaches such as Amos Alonzo Stagg, Knute Rockne, and Glenn "Pop" Warner helped take advantage of the newly introduced forward pass. The popularity of collegiate football grew as it became the dominant version of the sport for the first half of the twentieth century. Bowl games, a college football tradition, attracted a national audience for collegiate teams. Bolstered by fierce rivalries, college football still holds widespread appeal in the US.[3][4][5]
Walter Camp
Walter Camp

The origin of professional football can be traced back to 1892, with William "Pudge" Heffelfinger's $500 contract to play in a game for the Allegheny Athletic Association against the Pittsburgh Athletic Club. In 1920 the American Professional Football Association was formed. The first game was played in Dayton, Ohio on October 3rd, 1920 with the host Triangles defeating the Columbus Panhandles 14-0. The league changed its name to the National Football League (NFL) two years later, and eventually became the major league of American football. Initially a sport of Midwestern, industrial towns in the United States, professional football eventually became a national phenomenon. Football's increasing popularity is usually traced to the 1958 NFL Championship Game, a contest that has been dubbed the "Greatest Game Ever Played". A rival league to the NFL, the American Football League (AFL), began play in 1960; the pressure it put on the senior league led to a merger between the two leagues and the creation of the Super Bowl, which has become the most watched television event in the United States on an annual basis.[6][/spoiler]

Between 1324 and 1667, football was banned in England alone by more than 30 royal and local laws.


That sentance only shows how old what you americans call soccer is...550 years older than american football, if we don't take a look at ancient forms of TRUE football.


Come again please? :-D
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

LegendaryApophis wrote:
Between 1324 and 1667, football was banned in England alone by more than 30 royal and local laws.


That sentance only shows how old what you americans call soccer is...550 years older than american football, if we don't take a look at ancient forms of TRUE football.


:lol:

It's older than the USA itself.. :P
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

Lois Lane wrote:
LegendaryApophis wrote:
Between 1324 and 1667, football was banned in England alone by more than 30 royal and local laws.


That sentance only shows how old what you americans call soccer is...550 years older than american football, if we don't take a look at ancient forms of TRUE football.


:lol:

It's older than the USA itself.. :P

;) :D

I think I should have quoted the part of Chinese soldiers playing it before the WESTERN (!!!) roman empire collapsed... :D
So yes...oldest soccer form is 1800+ years old!
Now, let's not go into crap anymore please? :D
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

LOL, Did I say American Football is Older? :lol:

If I wanted to get Anal I could bring up facts like, Basketball, for instence, was played by the Azteks with a stone ball and a sideways hoop. Just cause it's kinda same, doesn't mean it is.
In America we play Kick-ball (Dunno if Euros play it), where we play basically Baseball, with a ball you kick, just cause we kick the ball does that make it Soccer?

No, I'm not going to deny that Soccer is old, as A matter of fact, that's my point, Soccer is old, Whilst Football is very new, and growing at an insane rate. Also, I might go as far to say it takes more skill and time to play American Football. (Yes, I went there.) :P

Anyway, The age point is moot, you still haven't listed a reason why it (Soccer/EuroFootball) is, allegedly, better. :)
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

Medicus Atrum wrote: Also, I might go as far to say it takes more skill and time to play American Football. (Yes, I went there.) :P


Thats your opinion (That I agree with) and I will bet all my naq that Lois and Apophis will disagree with it, but that is also there opinion. Which will lead into a never-ending argument about which takes more skill, which is pointless ](*,)
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

Medicus Atrum wrote:LOL, Did I say American Football is Older? :lol:

If I wanted to get Anal I could bring up facts like, Basketball, for instence, was played by the Azteks with a stone ball and a sideways hoop. Just cause it's kinda same, doesn't mean it is.
In America we play Kick-ball (Dunno if Euros play it), where we play basically Baseball, with a ball you kick, just cause we kick the ball does that make it Soccer?

No, I'm not going to deny that Soccer is old, as A matter of fact, that's my point, Soccer is old, Whilst Football is very new, and growing at an insane rate. Also, I might go as far to say it takes more skill and time to play American Football. (Yes, I went there.) :P

Anyway, The age point is moot, you still haven't listed a reason why it (Soccer/EuroFootball) is, allegedly, better. :)

Football is awesome to watch, skilled players do awesome moves.
Watch Zidane, Ronaldinho, Henry, Messi, or any great player and you'll know why that much people like true football!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iFwJ974XVno

Hope that vid is ok for those forums. But well watch gameplay

Otherwise, we have that one http://youtube.com/watch?v=ImA2Mnn8Hrc

Basketball has it too, I admit.

That's what makes basket true one if any sport tried to copy it.


American foot is a copy of rugby. That's what makes soccer true one. Simple.
Last edited by Cole on Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

Medicus Atrum wrote:Anyway, The age point is moot, you still haven't listed a reason why it (Soccer/EuroFootball) is, allegedly, better. :)


cuz american football players are sissies and wear full body pads. footballers only have shin guards and uniforms 8)

football completely owns american football. \m/
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

True^^

Rugby PWNZ American Football

American foot is copy cat of rugby, so HOW can it be true football???

It's NOT even played with feet! :lol:

lmao
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

ramen07 wrote:
Medicus Atrum wrote:Anyway, The age point is moot, you still haven't listed a reason why it (Soccer/EuroFootball) is, allegedly, better. :)


cuz american football players are sissies and wear full body pads. footballers only have shin guards and uniforms 8)

football completely owns american football. \m/
Maybe because one of the main goals of the sport is to tackle someone hopefully injuring enough to get them to stop running.... While in soccer (Im american :D ) all you do is slide tackle.. which is the "sissy" version of American Football tackling
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

Empedocles wrote:
ramen07 wrote:
Medicus Atrum wrote:Anyway, The age point is moot, you still haven't listed a reason why it (Soccer/EuroFootball) is, allegedly, better. :)


cuz american football players are sissies and wear full body pads. footballers only have shin guards and uniforms 8)

football completely owns american football. \m/
Maybe because one of the main goals of the sport is to tackle someone hopefully injuring enough to get them to stop running.... While in soccer (Im american :D ) all you do is slide tackle.. which is the "sissy" version of American Football tackling


i doubt you've ever played football. ive played both american football and true football, and i gotta say, there was more contact in true football! LMAO
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

Empedocles wrote:
ramen07 wrote:
Medicus Atrum wrote:Anyway, The age point is moot, you still haven't listed a reason why it (Soccer/EuroFootball) is, allegedly, better. :)


cuz american football players are sissies and wear full body pads. footballers only have shin guards and uniforms 8)

football completely owns american football. \m/
Maybe because one of the main goals of the sport is to tackle someone hopefully injuring enough to get them to stop running.... While in soccer (Im american :D ) all you do is slide tackle.. which is the "sissy" version of American Football tackling

You're FULL of protections.
Neither rugby nor soccer players look like neo middle-age knights :lol:

You basically do what rugbymen do, but you stop each 10s, and are loads more protected than them. Not saying american foot has no hard contacts, but loads less than rugby, which they copy, hence making argument of being true football, nonsense.
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

Wasn't this about Soccer not Rugby? Because.. Im gonna say American Football and Rugby are equal and neither are more "sissy" or anything like that, than the other. Lots of Americans play Rugby... its not hated here like Soccer is (even though lots of people still play it)
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

Empedocles wrote:Wasn't this about Soccer not Rugby? Because.. Im gonna say American Football and Rugby are equal and neither are more "sissy" or anything like that, than the other. Lots of Americans play Rugby... its not hated here like Soccer is (even though lots of people still play it)

It's linked.
American foot is a "soft" version of rugby while they pretend be real football, and as I said, not played with feet mostly...

Go tell Portugese, Italians, Argentinians, Iranians, Turkish, Greek and Spanish people they are sissies... ;)
Afterall, football is very important sport in those countries!
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

LegendaryApophis wrote:American foot is a "soft" version of rugby while they pretend be real football, and as I said, not played with feet mostly...


LOL, now you resort to petty insults because you have no real point. Oh, and It's called a Football because it's shaped like a foot. :P

LegendaryApophis wrote:Go tell Portugese, Italians, Argentinians, Iranians, Turkish, Greek and Spanish people they are sissies... ;)
Afterall, football is very important sport in those countries!


Okay. You're sissies. :lol:


And I doubt you Euros have ever played USA Football, Because you would change your minds about the pads in a heart-beat.
I've played both Soccer and Football, and believe me, Football(USA) is insaaaaane, one bad tackle and you just lost your abillity to walk.
And, Yes, that happens.

Speeking of pads, Seriously, Soccer balls look like they have a bunch of female maxi pads stuck on them.
(A few of my female friends agree with this, lol)

I do agree though, Rugby is tough, but have you ever seen a 300+ pound Defensive Lineman out run a 180 pound average Joe before?
It happens in Football. It is the hardest Pro-Sport to play. And if you're going to reply with videos that show nothing, we should probably stop this disagreement. I'm up for continuing it, but we would probably have to move this to the debate area. :P

Oh, And go to Google sometime and search for NFL's Hardest hit or NFL's best plays/NFL's best running plays. You'll get some amazing clips. ;)
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Re: To shut all lies that soccer isn't true football (facts)

I've seen american football matches and no I'm not going to change my tastes ROFLMAO!!!
I've also seen rugby and my uncle who is much interested into rugby once been at a match american footballers vs rugbymen...guess who was butchered?

Hint: no knightish protections were allowed hehe :-D

But well, if soccer was so bad, it wouldn't be played on all continents and followed by 100 millions of people, isn't it? ;)

I've seen those matches, guess what? It's BORING!
At least, foot and rugby don't stop all the time the game and do trillions of few seconds breaks all the time :lol:


AMERICAN FOOTBALL IS NOT TRUE FOOTBALL BECAUSE FIRSTLY IT IS MOSTLY PLAYED WITH HANDS! You must know it yourself since you play it!
And TRUE FOOTBALL MEANS A GAME PLAYED WITH FEET NOT OTHER PARTIES OTHERWISE ITS NOT TRUE!

Would caps help? :? I hope so :D

Handball is played with hands, and football with feet, what's so hard? :?
So, true football is "soccer".
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