Vaccines- biological preparation that improves immunity

[Thriller]

Vaccinations are something i believe people today might take for granted.

I arrived at this; after being stopped outside the mall today by some loony women telling me "they cause autism" and "nerve damage". I interrupted her and told her i had to go. She decided she wouldn't let off that easy and stepped in my way; proceeding to tell me i "owed it to my children". I told her i didn't have any and that they wouldn't listen to crazy people on the street either. I guess she got kind of upset after that and rambled on about what a bad person i was (pg 13 version)..... until she realized i couldn't give **Filtered** as I walked away while not giving her a secound look.

So... i am going to have a nice discussion here with you guys about why it is important to vaccinate your kids as well as yourself. I will try to be nice to people who disagree and attempt to educate you on your misgivings. Failing that, i might make fun of you until you cry in corner. It'll be one or the other, but i do both for the betterment of everyone.

Now..

Why should i get my child and/or myself vaccinated?
There are so many reasons its hard to know where to start, so im just going to steal an explanation from the CDC(center for disease control)

"Disease prevention is the key to public health. It is always better to prevent a disease than to treat it. Vaccines prevent disease in the people who receive them and protect those who come into contact with unvaccinated individuals. Vaccines help prevent infectious diseases and save lives. Vaccines are responsible for the control of many infectious diseases that were once common in this country, including polio, measles, diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), rubella (German measles), mumps, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)." link:http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/howvpd.htm

Sums it up nicely...


So... How many of you have seen someone die of TB, rubella, pertussis, polio? probably zero. You know why? cause we immunize against them(duh).

Sometimes people take things for granted when problems aren't starring them in the face. But you must remember; that not having those terrible diseases around you anymore doesn't mean there gone. It means were doing something right. One day, those plagues will cease to exist and they will have all you brave people; in the hear and now; to thank.

You! The ones who were courageous enough to take a little prick in the arm and some minor discomfort. All the while saving your own ass in the process; by getting immunized and saving future generations the burdens of the scourges of old.

I for one, salute you.
And may God bless you all!!!

[Juliette]

I know looney people like that too.
It's the semi-scientific version of the religious predestination argument: "If your death is predestined, you'll die. If an illness is predestined, you'll get sick. If we do nothing and lean back on faith alone, only the predestined things come to pass."


And voila. Since that's been proven to be a load of crock, fearmongering by quacks and lunatics has taken it's place. That earlier argument is hardly ever heard anymore -in the circles I travel in, thank God (and twice for irony)- and it is veritably outdated and obsolete. The argument about 'it causes this and that' however, is a scientific pain. It's inverse logic:
"Billy got sick. Billy has had vaccinations. Philip is not sick. Has had no vaccinations. Must be the vaccinations that cause this sickness!"
Given the effect of vaccinations, it's more likely to be:
"Billy got sick, he had a very bad virus. Billy has had vaccinations that help him suppress an otherwise lethal and highly contagious virus. Philip is not sick. He has had no vaccinations, but thanks to Billy, whose vaccinations help him fight off the virus, Philip is not sick."



Oh well.. you know what they say about talking to loonies, Thriller.

[[KMA]Avenger]

since you lot who are so vehemently in favour of vaccines, i wont even try and convince you otherwise...

however, what i will do is post this youtube link of a censored part of an interview with Merck's main man for vaccine development. you need to listen to the whole thing to have any appreciate of what this man ( ) is talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU

you owe it to yourselves to learn and understand before you condemn something simply because you do not have all the info or simply think no one is that evil or that you believe the WHO (world health organisation) the CDC and health depts are their because they are nice and want to make sure we are all fit and healthy.

http://viewzone2.com/sv40x.html

now i need to make 1 thing crystal clear, i dont post this (or any other clip) as total or near total proof of anything, i post it in the hopes you will educate yourselves. i'm not in the education business and its nothing to do with me whether you educate yourself or not, but if you care about what you put in your body (and your family's) then you owe it to yourself to find out the facts, not plug up your ears and call other people crazy because your not open to new information.


another thing i need to make clear is that, i am NOT saying all vaccines or vaccine makers are bad, all i'm saying is to find out the truth about big pharma and what they are doing.

[Juliette]

There are bad eggs too, doesn't mean I'm not going to eat eggs, silly G.
But I see your point, some .. critical thinking is required. Not just blindly inject yourself with whatever 'people' say is good for you.

[[KMA]Avenger]

There are bad eggs too, doesn't mean I'm not going to eat eggs, silly G.

did i not say that?

another thing i need to make clear is that, i am NOT saying all vaccines or vaccine makers are bad, all i'm saying is to find out the truth about big pharma and what they are doing.

silly J

critical thinking is required. Not just blindly inject yourself with whatever 'people' say is good for you.

thats all i am saying, some critical thinking mixed with some research makes for better understanding...even if its to confirm what you think is right, and prove others wrong

[Juliette]

There are bad eggs too, doesn't mean I'm not going to eat eggs, silly G.

did i not say that?

another thing i need to make clear is that, i am NOT saying all vaccines or vaccine makers are bad, all i'm saying is to find out the truth about big pharma and what they are doing.

silly J

critical thinking is required. Not just blindly inject yourself with whatever 'people' say is good for you.

thats all i am saying, some critical thinking mixed with some research makes for better understanding...even if its to confirm what you think is right, and prove others wrong

Yeah.. we're agreed.


Now, Thriller! More philosophical. Venture into the unknown. Leave the shores of daily life's bothers..

[[KMA]Avenger]

cool

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[Thriller]

since you lot who are so vehemently in favour of vaccines, i wont even try and convince you otherwise...

however, what i will do is post this youtube link of a censored part of an interview with Merck's main man for vaccine development. you need to listen to the whole thing to have any appreciate of what this man ( ) is talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU

you owe it to yourselves to learn and understand before you condemn something simply because you do not have all the info or simply think no one is that evil or that you believe the WHO (world health organisation) the CDC and health depts are their because they are nice and want to make sure we are all fit and healthy.

http://viewzone2.com/sv40x.html

now i need to make 1 thing crystal clear, i dont post this (or any other clip) as total or near total proof of anything, i post it in the hopes you will educate yourselves. i'm not in the education business and its nothing to do with me whether you educate yourself or not, but if you care about what you put in your body (and your family's) then you owe it to yourself to find out the facts, not plug up your ears and call other people crazy because your not open to new information.


another thing i need to make clear is that, i am NOT saying all vaccines or vaccine makers are bad, all i'm saying is to find out the truth about big pharma and what they are doing.

Summary: "I'm not saying your wrong but just look at this videos and how could any sane person not be terrified"


Plz provide clear examples of why you don't like vaccines based of facts; not fearmongering, pseudo science, and sophistry.

Thought experiment for you Avenger:

Let's say you and I both have two children. Your children are ages 3 and 6, and mine are 3 and 6 months.

While on vacation with your family your oldest son picks up a case of plurossis (because he was not immunized). He is old enough to fight off the virus and he comes down with symptoms that would suggest he suffering from a bad cold. After some bed rest and some fluids he pulls through. 4-5 days later your three year old comes down with what is beleived to be the same thing. So you get a call from you day care provider that your daughter is sick she needs to come home. You pick her up and put him to bed... but she doesn't bounce back like your oldest did... she gets worse!! she is coughing and coughing and her breathing starts to get erratic. You rush her to the hospital where after three or 4 days with a tube down her throat she manages to pull through.

Thank god for modern medicine and having hospitals within short driving distance, It saved your little girl. You didn't need those immunizations, Right?

Here is what you didn't consider in your selfish irresponsible choice to not immunize your kids.

My oldest 3 year old boy attends the same day-care as your youngest girl. Unknown to you; before you picked her up she was enjoying play time with the other children. Her coughing progressively got worse she accidentally spread the contagion to a few of the other children around her. No harm no foul though, it's just a cough. The teachers beleiving it to be just to be a bit of cold. After she complains about not feeling well they call you up to get her. But this misdiagnosis and lack of understanding of the day care workes means no due diligence was done to make sure all the kids washed up after she left....

My wife drops off my boy from the day care and i notice he has a bit of down look on his face. He says to me that "my friend from school is sick" and is sad. I tell him "we will make a get well card for her after dinner.' He smiles and runs over to give me a hug and tickles his infant sister's little nose, she giglles and squirms in my arms. He asks if "she can help too?" I reply that "maybe if she's up for it."

Unfortunately she won't get to help her brother, She is going catch a fever in a couple hours. Later that night it'll turn into a terrible cough; gasping for every tiny breath. My wife and I, in a panic, will rush her to the hospital. Where they will shove a resperator tube down her throat in an attempt to save her life, We will pray for her safety while we keep watch ....But, There will be no happy ending for my family.

We will wait there all night until the doctor comes out and relays the terrible news. I will console my family and reflect on how this terrible tragedy could have occured. The tragedy being that; if it only happened two months later my little infant girl would have had her plurosis vaccine and been giving the opertunity to finish that card.


Now you may think my story is a little far fetched, maybe. But, things like happen every year in "developed" contries. People dying preventable death's because irresponsible people don;t know their ass from a whole in the ground. Not immunizing yourself and your kids from preventable deadly diseases is one of the most ignorant, infentile, and irresponsible things you can do. Your not just immunizing for your own sake but for everyone around you. Every stranger, friend, co worker you meet.

If this scenario were to play out between you and me avenger. I would put two in your cap and bury you out back. Just to set a precedent of what i think should happen to irresponsible spinelessly selfish people. Who will put up stock with any paranoid dalusional idea as long as it rearfirms there own insecurities and world view.

[Hitchkok]

here's one for you, thrilla:
should the govenment force people to vaccinate their kids?

[[KMA]Avenger]

since you lot who are so vehemently in favour of vaccines, i wont even try and convince you otherwise...

however, what i will do is post this youtube link of a censored part of an interview with Merck's main man for vaccine development. you need to listen to the whole thing to have any appreciate of what this man ( ) is talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU

you owe it to yourselves to learn and understand before you condemn something simply because you do not have all the info or simply think no one is that evil or that you believe the WHO (world health organisation) the CDC and health depts are their because they are nice and want to make sure we are all fit and healthy.

http://viewzone2.com/sv40x.html

now i need to make 1 thing crystal clear, i dont post this (or any other clip) as total or near total proof of anything, i post it in the hopes you will educate yourselves. i'm not in the education business and its nothing to do with me whether you educate yourself or not, but if you care about what you put in your body (and your family's) then you owe it to yourself to find out the facts, not plug up your ears and call other people crazy because your not open to new information.


another thing i need to make clear is that, i am NOT saying all vaccines or vaccine makers are bad, all i'm saying is to find out the truth about big pharma and what they are doing.

Summary: "I'm not saying your wrong but just look at this videos and how could any sane person not be terrified"


Plz provide clear examples of why you don't like vaccines based of facts; not fearmongering, pseudo science, and sophistry.

Thought experiment for you Avenger:

Let's say you and I both have two children. Your children are ages 3 and 6, and mine are 3 and 6 months.

While on vacation with your family your oldest son picks up a case of plurossis (because he was not immunized). He is old enough to fight off the virus and he comes down with symptoms that would suggest he suffering from a bad cold. After some bed rest and some fluids he pulls through. 4-5 days later your three year old comes down with what is beleived to be the same thing. So you get a call from you day care provider that your daughter is sick she needs to come home. You pick her up and put him to bed... but she doesn't bounce back like your oldest did... she gets worse!! she is coughing and coughing and her breathing starts to get erratic. You rush her to the hospital where after three or 4 days with a tube down her throat she manages to pull through.

Thank god for modern medicine and having hospitals within short driving distance, It saved your little girl. You didn't need those immunizations, Right?

Here is what you didn't consider in your selfish irresponsible choice to not immunize your kids.

My oldest 3 year old boy attends the same day-care as your youngest girl. Unknown to you; before you picked her up she was enjoying play time with the other children. Her coughing progressively got worse she accidentally spread the contagion to a few of the other children around her. No harm no foul though, it's just a cough. The teachers beleiving it to be just to be a bit of cold. After she complains about not feeling well they call you up to get her. But this misdiagnosis and lack of understanding of the day care workes means no due diligence was done to make sure all the kids washed up after she left....

My wife drops off my boy from the day care and i notice he has a bit of down look on his face. He says to me that "my friend from school is sick" and is sad. I tell him "we will make a get well card for her after dinner.' He smiles and runs over to give me a hug and tickles his infant sister's little nose, she giglles and squirms in my arms. He asks if "she can help too?" I reply that "maybe if she's up for it."

Unfortunately she won't get to help her brother, She is going catch a fever in a couple hours. Later that night it'll turn into a terrible cough; gasping for every tiny breath. My wife and I, in a panic, will rush her to the hospital. Where they will shove a resperator tube down her throat in an attempt to save her life, We will pray for her safety while we keep watch ....But, There will be no happy ending for my family.

We will wait there all night until the doctor comes out and relays the terrible news. I will console my family and reflect on how this terrible tragedy could have occured. The tragedy being that; if it only happened two months later my little infant girl would have had her plurosis vaccine and been giving the opertunity to finish that card.


Now you may think my story is a little far fetched, maybe. But, things like happen every year in "developed" contries. People dying preventable death's because irresponsible people don;t know their ass from a whole in the ground. Not immunizing yourself and your kids from preventable deadly diseases is one of the most ignorant, infentile, and irresponsible things you can do. Your not just immunizing for your own sake but for everyone around you. Every stranger, friend, co worker you meet.

If this scenario were to play out between you and me avenger. I would put two in your cap and bury you out back. Just to set a precedent of what i think should happen to irresponsible spinelessly selfish people. Who will put up stock with any paranoid dalusional idea as long as it rearfirms there own insecurities and world view.

firstly, you presumed to much because you failed to read and understand what i said...

2nd, anyone touches me or my family better make sure they put me down for good,i promise you wont get a 2nd chance.

3rd and most importantly, my kids don't get ill (aside the odd cold and 1 throat infection which my eldest had recently) and as soon as i found out about vaccines i stopped all their injections, they've had some, but not all and they are just fine...thank you for your concern though

4th, did you even listen to that sick interview? if so, did you even pay any attention whatsoever?

5th, i am not insecure or have delusions...


what is it Sarah Conner says to Doc Silberman from Terminator 2...AH YES!

your the one living in a **Filtered** dream Silberman!


i leave you to your delusions that the world spins of its own accord and with the exception of terrorists-are 1 big happy family and Govts care for us and only want whats best...go ahead and knock yourself out on vaccines...

somethings just occurred to me, your willing to shoot me dead if the above scenario of yours actually happened, let me ask you this, would you put "2 in your cap and bury yourself outback" if you had kids and found out they got brain damage or cancer from a tainted vaccine?


i hope for your sake you never have a girl and give her this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... r-jab.html

thats not an isolated case...just in case your wondering


enjoy your vaccines

[Thriller]

here's one for you, thrilla:
should the govenment force people to vaccinate their kids?

Yes, if those kids wish to attend public school or enter government buildings(including hospitals), This only apply's for established vaccinations. New vaccines have to be be successfully tested on a volunteer audience, before they become mandatory

@ avenger
vaccines don't cause brain damage or cancer, this is confirmed by over 20 scientific reviews. So i don't have to worry about it. I became a strong proponent of the importance to vaccinate; after i lost My cousin to hep B because she didn't want to get a vaccine. Her boyfriend filled her head with the nonsense you just talked about. I WILL try make the stupid submit to reason when it puts my family and friends in danger. Failing that, who knows. Maybe i wouldn't go rambo on you, maybe i would....

But if that scenario I outlined played out, would you feel in anyway responsible.... at all?

[[KMA]Avenger]

@ avenger
vaccines don't cause brain damage or cancer, this is confirmed by over 20 scientific reviews. So i don't have to worry about it. I became a strong proponent of the importance to vaccinate; after i lost My cousin to hep B because she didn't want to get a vaccine. Her boyfriend filled her head with the nonsense you just talked about. I WILL try make the stupid submit to reason when it puts my family and friends in danger. Failing that, who knows. Maybe i wouldn't go rambo on you, maybe i would....

But if that scenario I outlined played out, would you feel in anyway responsible.... at all?

for reasons unknown, you've COMPLETELY missed my stance on the matter.

firstly i am NOT...repeat...NOT against vaccines/vaccination...in fact, its the opposite, i am in favour of them!!!

what i'm not in favour of is big pharma corporations producing crap in their labs and making us sick so they can then sell us other crap which is supposed to make us better but in fact makes even more sick so they can reap huge profits. as was the case with the H1N1 virus which was proven to have been manufactured in a US army base (forget the name) and released in mexico. H1N1 was proven to be made up of 2 parts avian flu, 2 parts swine flu and 1 part human flu.

watch these 4 clips PLEASE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHI ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIM2hwr ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Ru-Tp2 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-nkD5L ... re=related

have a look here:

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2009/08 ... rugs-harm/

and here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7UgKCJwzOY

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 70451.html

and here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... recks.html


in the current global political climate, there is no way i can be 100% sure ALL vaccines (100% of them!) are safe, BUT, give us safe vaccines and i'll be the first to line up and get my shots!


PS,

1 thing thats been completely overlooked here is this, what happens to our immune systems when kids are getting upwards of 20 vaccinations before they are 5 years old?
there's allot of evidence to suggest that with so many vaccinations at such a young age, the affect on the immune system is traumatic at best. it has the affect to basically put the immune system into overdrive and burns it out before you get to 50 years of age...i believe its 50, i did have a medical document on my computer i could have posted. due to recent issues with my PC thats gone and i cant be arsed to go look for it again because it took me ages to find it in the first place.

anyways, it doesn't hurt to investigate this yourself.


PSS.

i know i've provided allot of info here which you will no doubt want to reply to. its not my intention to overwhelm you, all i want to do is provide enough info that you start to look for yourself, not for me to justify what i've posted so we end up like the proverbial dog going in circles chasing its own tail.

[Hitchkok]

here's one for you, thrilla:
should the govenment force people to vaccinate their kids?

Yes, if those kids wish to attend public school or enter government buildings(including hospitals), This only apply's for established vaccinations. New vaccines have to be be successfully tested on a volunteer audience, before they become mandatory

this might pose ethical problems.
for one, no helsinky committee would allow for human testing without a proven and immediate helth benefit to the test subject.
i can't see how it would apply in case of a vaccine.
but the main thing is: in a liberal democracy you need a very bloody good reason to force people to do something. and as long as they alone will suffer the consequences of theire action, there are preacious few of this reasons around. now, you'll tell me it's not them, rather theire children that will suffer, and i'll tell you that children are the most underprivileged minority group around the world, and that no country found a better arrangement than the "legal guardian until you're 18".

[Thriller]

here's one for you, thrilla:
should the govenment force people to vaccinate their kids?

Yes, if those kids wish to attend public school or enter government buildings(including hospitals), This only apply's for established vaccinations. New vaccines have to be be successfully tested on a volunteer audience, before they become mandatory

this might pose ethical problems.
for one, no helsinky committee would allow for human testing without a proven and immediate helth benefit to the test subject.
i can't see how it would apply in case of a vaccine.
but the main thing is: in a liberal democracy you need a very bloody good reason to force people to do something. and as long as they alone will suffer the consequences of theire action, there are preacious few of this reasons around. now, you'll tell me it's not them, rather theire children that will suffer, and i'll tell you that children are the most underprivileged minority group around the world, and that no country found a better arrangement than the "legal guardian until you're 18".

I would also make it mandatory for adults under the age of 40 aswell, but you asked specifically about kids. There are non essential vaccines that shoudn't be mandatory; like seasonal flu vaccines, cervical cancer, rabies, or tetanus. All vaccines are tested in the lab, than on animals, then proceed to human testing. I was considering a fourth buffer before they become mandatory; to see their effects on a larger population.

Now i wouldn't force people to do it, they just would have to live without access to government buildings. NO hospitals, public schools, airports...... if you can do without those things then all the power to you.