The use of rudeness and personal insults in debates

[Legendary Apophis]

Did it ever achieve anything positive (such as convincing the other side, agreeing with two disagreeing sides) in a debate/discussion to be mean to the other?
Personally, I would say no, because only thing it achieves in my opinion, is to leave the fight of ideas for the fight of words. But I know and admit I used it in past (I try to avoid doing that now unless it's used against me), and noticed people use it against me or others as well in past and present.
This leads to another question, is it possible in this forum to hold a discussion without resorting to insults or anything that distracts the discussion from the topic it is about?

Sure, we can all display a form of arrogance condescendance and self satisfying in our ideas, but what's the point to prove we can? Since it never achieves anything else than derailing the discussion into a flame fest or a "I think I'm more intelligent than you and think that you are an idiot/retard". Only thing it achieves is what many forums integrated within their rules "some subjects such as religious subjects are not up to discuss in this forum" becomes also the case.

[RoKeT]

ah People are

Ignorant, arrogant, Pig Headed, and Self Rightous

you will never ever change a mind Jim just let the insults roll of the back mate

[Legendary Apophis]

ah People are

Ignorant, arrogant, Pig Headed, and Self Rightous

you will never ever change a mind Jim just let the insults roll of the back mate

Maybe it's a matter of age and habits (depends of the style of debating you are used to...)?

I frequent a political forum where the average age would be within mid 30's, with several seniors over 60. Sure there's still bad behaviour, but the modding usually prevents the users to users mean behaving. That learnt me that going all badboy against someone by shouting "hey idiot, you must be uneducated to think such idiocy? You should go back to school to get yourself some intelligence you fool and understand why people like me are right." or similar is far from being the best way to argue with someone. Instead, digging and counter argumenting what these people say usually is a better way to do. That prevents the thread to be ultimately locked.
I admit again I was like this with people who disagreed with me. "Republicans and conservatives must be fools to think this way considering what I think and people like me think" (that was me few years ago on this forum). Been there, done that. Learnt from it, and moved on. If I can change, then others can too, isn't it? I'm just an average person after all!

[MEZZANINE]

Hmmm My Gramps used to say people who swear and insult do so because they dont have the vocabulary to express themselves properly. I guess thats true sometimes but I think sometimes swearing and insulting is a result of shear frustration when you have already made an intelligent argument to no effect, or know that any debate with the person or group of people is futile. I find this in the various religious debates, you will never convince someone with 'faith' that their beliefs are bogus with all the proven facts in the world and it often comes down to a case of walking away because what you really want to do is strangle them, then revive them with CPR just to prove your point

[J I X]

i thought of this when i started reading this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM

sorry carry on

[Thriller]

i thought of this when i started reading this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM

sorry carry on

This...

Jim, i don't know if anyone has ever told you this before... But suck it up nancy!!!

YOU SHOTE BAG FOOSTER!!!

This is what i took away from this Jim.

"i admit i used to do the same kind of things i'm complaining against"
"but, it's unfair when it's directed towards me"
"You see when it's done to me it hurts my feelings and naturally this is degrading to everyone, How can you live with yourselves?"
"You all need to see light and know that your being childish and self serving."
"Bow to my moral authority"



But i'm going to stop making fun. I'll discuss your ideas with you for their merit. I'm not unreasonable, if you think i'm being an overly abrasive jackass than i'll stop. This goes for anyone else as well.

[[KMA]Avenger]

what's brought all this on?

[Mister Sandman]

Simple answer: Cause it is called for.

And if it isnt...

cause its fun....

[[KMA]Avenger]

that's not what i meant, some thing's obviously happened...what have i missed?

[Legendary Apophis]

Avenger, this is in the thread political compass, I thought I would have had an argumentation on the anti burqa law but all I received was...well...the pack of non arguments pretending mines weren't, just because those who said that didn't consider those as arguments because they thought otherwise (and felt they were oh so much more knowledgeable than me on an European/French matter...no comment!). And yet, I didn't see many arguments against my so called non arguments. But it's not something rare, everyone used it once at least, particularly when we confront someone who thinks totally differently as ourselves, the gap is so big that we usually prefer to ridicule the other side because we cannot understand (wrong word, infact "tolerate" fits more) how could someone have such a radically different opinion as ours. But in my case it wasn't only this but also a dig at my person as well. And that part, I cannot accept as I don't do this, so I don't see why people should do that to me...

i thought of this when i started reading this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM

sorry carry on

This...

Jim, i don't know if anyone has ever told you this before... But suck it up nancy!!!

YOU SHOTE BAG FOOSTER!!!

This is what i took away from this Jim.

"i admit i used to do the same kind of things i'm complaining against"
"but, it's unfair when it's directed towards me"
"You see when it's done to me it hurts my feelings and naturally this is degrading to everyone, How can you live with yourselves?"
"You all need to see light and know that your being childish and self serving."
"Bow to my moral authority"

Caricatural as always. Far from the real meaning...as well.
Now the real thing meant: I used to do it, I don't do it anymore because this goes nowhere and doesn't help at all a debate or my side to win argumentation, so if I managed to stop, as I'm not a superman, others could be able to stop as well. Also meant, only thing the fight of words achieve is reinforce each sides opinions that their views are the right one. Which means...that the debate wasn't even needed considering all the yapping only led to the starting point, but with an even reinforced opinion on the matter.


To think I promised to Juliette I would stop to have a fight of words instead of fight of points, even if provoked by the other side, oh well...that didn't work well in the past few days. I should have known better...

But i'm going to stop making fun. I'll discuss your ideas with you for their merit. I'm not unreasonable, if you think i'm being an overly abrasive jackass than i'll stop. This goes for anyone else as well.

This kind of argumentation it's fun for a while we all show we can make fun of the other, we move nowhere, each sides reinforce their opinions and in the end nothing is achieved just more stubborness in each sides opinion due to the other's satire. So yes, I would like to have something different than this kind of "debate", because only thing we see in the end is the skill of sarcasm of each, and "translation" of others' post. And eventually can end locked because it only gets worse&worse. And barely no arguments are posted, which is where the problem lies.