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Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:13 pm
by RoKeT
This seemed the best planned out and written!
[spoiler]
Semper wrote:Well. Problems with admins is accountability... jason doesn't care. Ombudsman is powerless so who do they answer to? What makes them better than us that they should be beyond reproach? Nothing. Ideally Jason should run the forums himself... he has no alliegence and actually should be/is beyond reproach being for all intents and purposes God of the game.
I know how to sort the forums out.
Remove all Global mods and admins.
Re-elect Admins from three categories in different ways. Let Admins choose GM's.
First Cat: Veteran. This is someone who is a veteran forum user and has the account date to prove it (it can't be faked or debated). Veteran forum users know the community, know the forum history and if elected will be popular with the users who use the forums. This should be the user admin who deals with complaints and the forum users.
Second Cat: The Guide. Second admin should be elected from the last three admins by the former forum team (excluding admins). This should be the only way for an admin to be reelected. This admin should deal with teaching the other admins and should have absolutely no power in deciding forum team members fate.
Third Cat: Should be voted in by the forum team, old admins and users from the forum team. This should be the admin reponsible for internal affairs and hiring new mods/dealing with mod v mod disputes. Should be done publically. Users vote = vale of 50%. Admins vote = value of 25% and forum team value of 25%. This means prevents calculated voting from the forum team.
After the admins have been put in place then they should be allowed to bring a GM team of their choosing to the board. I would personally say 2 GM's per admin as an ideal number, otherwise one per admin and have 2 or so chosen by the others.
Leave blue mods in place and don't forget to rinse and repeat once a year!
[/spoiler]
Not just him but many users have posted that they think there should be a time period on mod's/admin... It's something I do agree with so I figured I'd post here since this is where we are supposed to post ideas xD
Personally I feel that we should have admin/mod's changed and or altered at least once a year not necissarily to be taken completely off the staff list, but at least be switched around please discuss!
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:24 pm
by Empy
I will just quote myself ...
E.M.P. wrote:Okay, my post is just gonna seem like a pile of crap but I'm gonna post anyways. It will seem like I'm just trying to keep my job or "hold on to power" or whatever (even though that's human nature anyways). If I may just speak about myself though I don't do this for the "power" it's just something I enjoy doing, and it consumes my time, something I have in large supplies.
Why remove Global Mods too? I thought Admins were the ones who are above reproach. Global Mods have to answer to the Admins.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:05 pm
by jedi~tank
I would like to agree sometimes with this but I have to disagree..at times when a team gives us what we want we think their just the absolute best..and when they dont we want a change..however I do think that if a team is doing a good consistent job they ought to be left alone because good teamwork is developed over time, now while I have thrown a my own fits and had my own "noob" moments and been rivals against some of the ones on staff currently, I do have to admit that the admin team does a pretty good job overall. Some of the mods have issues but meh, who doesnt
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:24 pm
by Noobert
I asked in the other thread, so I will ask here.
Who has the experience in handling forum matters to be promoted to Admin? Let alone Global Moderators. Very few Moderators are ready to step forward for the Global position, let alone Adminship in my opinion. This is why I am asking this question.
Or do you intend to pick Admins/Globals from players of this community? If so, I would also like for you to show me people with the experience and willingness to step forward and do a good job for the benefit of this forum, and not themselves.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:29 pm
by ƒëmmë ƒatalë
I believe the Admin team should be answerable to someone... Baszy for example does a sterling job in a way a Admin should.. behind the scenes without feeling the need to mod as well.
I'd like more power given to Ombusman, hiring someone outside of game would be a good idea and giving them power to enforce their recommendations...
Many mods do a fabulous job, (Souless and SS are 2 of the extraordinary ones) there are a few however that let personal and ingame biases effect them (yes, I know they are only human).
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:29 pm
by Zeratul
while he rarely goes onto the forums, we admins answer to Jason. every now and then there is something Jason wants implemented on the forums, and we admins have to implement and enforce it, whether we like the thing or not...
we also update him on forum situation every now and then, depending on when we can get hold of him...
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:38 pm
by Clarkey
[spoiler]
RoKeT wrote:This seemed the best planned out and written!
[spoiler]
Semper wrote:Well. Problems with admins is accountability... jason doesn't care. Ombudsman is powerless so who do they answer to? What makes them better than us that they should be beyond reproach? Nothing. Ideally Jason should run the forums himself... he has no alliegence and actually should be/is beyond reproach being for all intents and purposes God of the game.
I know how to sort the forums out.
Remove all Global mods and admins.
Re-elect Admins from three categories in different ways. Let Admins choose GM's.
First Cat: Veteran. This is someone who is a veteran forum user and has the account date to prove it (it can't be faked or debated). Veteran forum users know the community, know the forum history and if elected will be popular with the users who use the forums. This should be the user admin who deals with complaints and the forum users.
Second Cat: The Guide. Second admin should be elected from the last three admins by the former forum team (excluding admins). This should be the only way for an admin to be reelected. This admin should deal with teaching the other admins and should have absolutely no power in deciding forum team members fate.
Third Cat: Should be voted in by the forum team, old admins and users from the forum team. This should be the admin reponsible for internal affairs and hiring new mods/dealing with mod v mod disputes. Should be done publically. Users vote = vale of 50%. Admins vote = value of 25% and forum team value of 25%. This means prevents calculated voting from the forum team.
After the admins have been put in place then they should be allowed to bring a GM team of their choosing to the board. I would personally say 2 GM's per admin as an ideal number, otherwise one per admin and have 2 or so chosen by the others.
Leave blue mods in place and don't forget to rinse and repeat once a year!
Not just him but many users have posted that they think there should be a time period on mod's/admin... It's something I do agree with so I figured I'd post here since this is where we are supposed to post ideas xD
Personally I feel that we should have admin/mod's changed and or altered at least once a year not necissarily to be taken completely off the staff list, but at least be switched around please discuss!
[/spoiler]
And have yet "another" popularity contest... great idea!
The only way this can be done is Jason bring in new blood not related to the game, the only downside to that is lack of game knowledge. But it would remove the bias and corrupt accusations.
Semper has always had another agenda, we all know that, this is just his attempt to remove those in position. Don't be his puppet RoKeT.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:46 pm
by BMMJ13
Clarkey wrote:The only way this can be done is Jason bring in new blood not related to the game, the only downside to that is lack of game knowledge. But it would remove the bias and corrupt accusations.
Will it now? I imagine at least 90% of those who accuse of bias are just baseless accusations, and has no meaning on if you are in the game or not. I've been called bias by those who are my enemy, I've been called it by those who are my allies. I've even been called bias towards another enemy by an enemy. I imagine many of those who don't play are still called bias even though they have no current or recent ties or affiliations in game. Some people just like to blame others for their own failure to follow rules and often just use the cry of bias as a cover all when they aren't happy, which only resorts to nearly all accusations of bias being cast under the same light, creating a boy who cried wolf effect should there ever be a time when those who say so wish to be taken seriously.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:50 pm
by Clarkey
BMMJ13 wrote:Clarkey wrote:The only way this can be done is Jason bring in new blood not related to the game, the only downside to that is lack of game knowledge. But it would remove the bias and corrupt accusations.
Will it now? I imagine at least 90% of those who accuse of bias are just baseless accusations, and has no meaning on if you are in the game or not. I've been called bias by those who are my enemy, I've been called it by those who are my allies. I've even been called bias towards another enemy by an enemy. I imagine many of those who don't play are still called bias even though they have no current or recent ties or affiliations in game. Some people just like to blame others for their own failure to follow rules and often just use the cry of bias as a cover all when they aren't happy, which only resorts to nearly all accusations of bias being cast under the same light, creating a boy who cried wolf effect should there ever be a time when those who say so wish to be taken seriously.
Most people that cry bias through baseless accusations often try and "use" something such as something related to ingame, or an experience with them on the forums, or their friendships with certain others. Maybe an outside team wouldn't wipe out all bias claims but it would considerably reduce the sound of that word around these here parts.
Still, staff should have knowledge of the game as this is what the forum is about.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:19 am
by semper
Clarkey wrote:Semper has always had another agenda, we all know that, this is just his attempt to remove those in position. Don't be his puppet RoKeT.
Oh stop you.... you'll make me blush. However... for once... I don't just have another agenda. I do genuinely believe a set of rules like this has long been needed.
@ Noobert. Well the point would arise that just because you don't see anyone capable doesn't mean there isn't.
@ Empy. I answered you in the other thread.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:38 am
by Noobert
Semper wrote:@ Noobert. Well the point would arise that just because you don't see anyone capable doesn't mean there isn't.
I never meant it in a way such as that, but it doesn't mean that what I spoke wasn't true. Who would you promote to such roles? Very few could fill those roles, public or Moderator wise. There may be individuals who will do a good job, but they will not have a blatant clue as to what to do unless they learn over time and without that time due to the "time period" as it will just cause fights in the Moderator forum and from the users, as well as probably making some Moderators get lazy in their modding because "I'm going to be removed anyways, why bother?"
I am still asking for anyone to post individuals whom they think would be capable in the roles of a GM or Admin from the Moderator staff or forum community.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:43 am
by Cole
My opinion on the matter would be that the ones deemed skilled to become the admin chosen by users/team (the one for internal affairs) would likely be a former staff member. Whether it's former by a year or four, I think it's unlikely a person who have had no staff experience in this forum can be promoted straight to admin. Yes people use other forums and can be admins/mods whatever there, but I still believe that forums don't work the same (I think it was Noobert who said that in the other thread) and a pack of rules used in a forum would be deemed too harsh/too soft in another, let alone the regular daily work an admin should provide. The idea has its merits, but the fact is, I don't think it would be good to parachute in (even though there it would be elected so it would be people choice, and therefore their good -or bad- choice) a person who haven't been yet part of the staff here even though having experience of moderating/ruling other fora.
I am curious about something, what IF the 'new' admin team deem the former GMs to be worthy of their role and bring them back? Wouldn't it be a bit odd to be removed to be reinstalled a bit later? Sure, it might happen otherwise, but I'm likely to believe the GMs wouldn't be chosen out of simple users (there it would be full parachute in as it would be the admins choosing GMs out of users, like when politicians are parachuted in a county/region role where they have little experience in spite of their political experience in their former location - equaling other fora for parachuted GMs if they were to have experience outside of this community). GMs would be either former staff members or current.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:54 am
by Noobert
Good idea, but you would need to track down those members of the forum staff and then you would have to ask them if they are interested or not which can take quite sometime.
Personally, that idea has it's merits but the one problem I would have with it is that Moderator's having the ability to be reelected again just holds no meaning because it is exactly like the current process as of now because they will just be chosen again sooner or later due to the inexperience of other players not willing to take on the role of Moderator to begin with. Just an observation.
And if the Blue Moderators are allowed to stay as Moderators, more Globals will wish to be Moderator rather than GMs. The same could probably be said for the Administrators.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:45 am
by jedi~tank
I disagree with the notion someone outside the game should be brought in, this should be done by people that play the game. Im curious as to who put Roket up to this, do tell Roket.
Re: Mods and Admin having a "Time Period"
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:49 am
by renegadze
Noobert wrote:Semper wrote:@ Noobert. Well the point would arise that just because you don't see anyone capable doesn't mean there isn't.
I never meant it in a way such as that, but it doesn't mean that what I spoke wasn't true. Who would you promote to such roles? Very few could fill those roles, public or Moderator wise. There may be individuals who will do a good job, but they will not have a blatant clue as to what to do unless they learn over time and without that time due to the "time period" as it will just cause fights in the Moderator forum and from the users, as well as probably making some Moderators get lazy in their modding because "I'm going to be removed anyways, why bother?"
I am still asking for anyone to post individuals whom they think would be capable in the roles of a GM or Admin from the Moderator staff or forum community.
Please, you're making out Moderating a forum is rocket science. Give a bunch of people a list of rules, have a review process in place to ensure they are enforcing the rules (and no more)....and voila you have a mod team.
I have modded and administered on more forums then I care to remember, I've even created well over 30/40. I have no illusion that my undertaking was pretty straight forward.