No EU referendum for the brits!

[[KMA]Avenger]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... aster.html

Yet another Govt breaks it's pledge for an EU referendum to the British public. i've lost count how many times both the Tories and the other lot have pledged a referendum on EU membership for the British people pre-election just to win votes, only for them to break their promise once in office...nothing new really, but this merry-go-round of promises and broken promises is getting REALLY old and i'm wondering when we will finally hold both major parties to account and demand what we want.

Polls are all over the place on this issue so i don't really like to quote polls. some polls show that 65% of the populace want out of the EU and to not give them another penny, other polls show an 85% in favour of leaving the EU. whichever poll you go with the bottom line is that the people want out. yet another indicator of what politicians think of the people when they just ignore us and carry on as if they know what's best and to hell with the public and what they think and want.


Career politicians are a joke, they all look the same, they all say the same **Filtered** regardless of party, they all come from the same schools and they all act the same towards the people...to hell with the people, we'll just do what we want....I SAY BOLLOCKS TO THE LOT OF EM. GET THE GUILLOTINES OUT FOR THE TRAITORS AND STICK THEIR HEADS ON PIKES!


And before anyone asks me if i couldn't see this coming...yes i could see it coming.


Edit:

And here's further proof that politicians are completely out of touch with the public and public feeling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ww50QlxgQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcbOfIHM_D0


Cameron says words to the affect of "he believes the public want the EU reformed so there is a better balance of power between the EU and Britain". from the uneducated persons POV, this man would rather go on TV and make an assumption instead of ask us what we really want....

What i believe and know as 100% fact beyond ALL doubt is that he is a traitor and a moron!

[Legendary Apophis]

Considering the UK doesn't have the Euro currency, it wouldn't have as much as a bad effect as if, let's say France backed down from EU or if Germany did so. I am obviously a very strong opposer to the far right party in my country who wants to get out of Euro, BUT it's not the subject. This is just to introduce my opinion that if a great majority (not 50.02% or something like this, more like 70+%) English/Welsh/Scottish and Northern Irish people *really* want to go out of EU, well, I suppose it's their call considering they aren't part of Eurozone or Shengen space, even though I am still rather worried about the indirect effects it could have on the Euro, due to UK being a "powerhouse" of the EU.

However, I wouldn't go anywhere near as far as agreeing with killing leading politicians of the UK, or as calling them traitors or anything of that sort.

But UK wouldn't anymore be considered as part of the EU and thus their trading status with EU would probably, likely, change. But that's nothing too surprising, I'm sure.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Jim, as i said, Both the Tories and labour for the past few elections have both promised the British people a referendum on the matter pre-election and as soon as they are in they refuse us our right to vote on the matter.


The bottom line is this, our constitution (Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights) expressly forbids our membership of the EU and as i have said many times, i have the proof that Ted Heaths Govt lied to the British people when he signed all the treaties in the mid 70's. even our media and the BBC are complicit in this lie. so it is not wrong to call them traitors because that's EXACTLY what they are...traitors!

Also, lets not make this a Left v Right issue, it's a national issue which affects ALL British people regardless.

And BTW, i don't want this turning into yet another EU Bashing thread. this is about broken promises and treasonous politicians.

Thanks!


PS, do we need to be part of the EU to trade with the EU and/or it's member states?

Leaving the EU would once again allow us to trade with our commonwealth partners and the rest of the world as well as the EU.

[Legendary Apophis]

Jim, as i said, Both the Tories and labour for the past few elections have both promised the British people a referendum on the matter pre-election and as soon as they are in they refuse us our right to vote on the matter.

I think I recall Tories to have said something like this at one point in recent past. It would have been better of them not to promise it to then be able to not do it.

The bottom line is this, our constitution (Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights) expressly forbids our membership of the EU and as i have said many times, i have the proof that Ted Heaths Govt lied to the British people when he signed all the treaties in the mid 70's. even our media and the BBC are complicit in this lie. so it is not wrong to call them traitors because that's EXACTLY what they are...traitors!

I'm not really aware of the Bill of Rights' detailed content so I prefer not to take a stance.

Also, lets not make this a Left v Right issue, it's a national issue which affects ALL British people regardless.

I didn't, I just made it clear my opinion about a Eurozone nation (mine for instance) cannot be copypasted to UK's case because it's not part of the Eurozone, and, if a big majority really wants to go off EU, a poll should be done. Then the joy of what to do with the result. I might point out though that if UK was to leave there would be effects to Euro and the markets even though it's not part of Eurozone, and that Germany among others might be rather unhappy with such move.

PS, do we need to be part of the EU to trade with the EU and/or it's member states?

No, obviously no. That's not what I meant. I meant that trading status would change. Not that it would disappear/be blacklisted.

[[KMA]Avenger]

They have talking about it for a few years now, i don't recall how many times this has been promised to the British people by both sides.

I don't remember the exact wording of our constitution, but it says words to the affect of "Parliament may do many things but what it may not do is hand control of the country to a foreign power, unless defeated in war". this basically says it all, we cannot adopt ANY EU regulation/law....PERIOD!


I understand, i just didn't want someone else making it a left/right issue.


Of course our trading status would change...that's why we have people employed as negotiators


Edit:

I've just found a similar issue in British history which has also set a historical president:

[spoiler]In 1366 King Edward III received a letter from the Pope asking for the 1000 Marks a year for those years for which it had not been paid, threatening to take action against him if Edward failed to pay. Edward spoke to the Bishops, and the Lords, who spoke to the Commons. First the Bishops, then the Lords, and finally the Commons, came to Edward and they told him that England did not belong to John. King John only held England in trust for those who follow on. Therefore it was not King Johns to give away. By handing England to the Pope, King John broke the law. As such, the agreement King John made with the Pope did not count. The money was not owed, and should not be paid. This constitutional ruling ensures that the Kings of England were not, and can never be, vassal Kings to anyone. This is a most important constitutional ruling which applies as much today as it did then.[/spoiler]

So, a king gave something away which was not his to give...by the same token, parliament has given up some (if not most) of it's governing rights to the EU...that's against the law and a blatant act of treason...

Still looking for the exact wording of the constitution i quoted above. will post it when found.

Also found this, i wasn't aware this had happened. but to be honest, i was not politically inclined back then. nor did i know 1-1 thousandth of what i know now.
[spoiler]When John Major came back from Maastricht and said the Queen was now a citizen of Europe, he attempted to destroy a constitutional principle, that our Kings can never be vassal Kings to any one. In so doing John Major committed the Major Crime of High Treason.[/spoiler]


I also found this which is EXTREMELY relevant:
[spoiler]During the reign of Queen Elizabeth I, the Pope attempted to have Queen Elizabeth murdered. The Pope said that whoever killed her would not suffer, and would receive both earthly and heavenly rewards. Queen Elizabeth was understandably far from amused by this and she reissued her fathers Act of Supremacy in 1559. This Act contained an Oath, part of which said, “No Foreign Prince, Person. State or Potentate. Hath or ought to have any Power, Jurisdiction, Superiority, Supremacy, or Authority Ecclesiastical or Spiritual in this Realm”.[/spoiler]


Edit:

Found this but cant sem to find the exact wording:

It is a fundamental part of our constitution that parliament, may not surrender any of their rights to govern, to a foreign power unless we have been defeated in war. To do so constitutes an act of High Treason


But this is most important
It is a fundamental part of our constitution that a statute law cannot repeal by implied repeal a constitutional law.


Parliament is governing outside of the rule of the constitutional law of England. This constitutes an act Sedition amounting to an act of High Treason.



Source: http://www.acasefortreason.org.uk/index ... reason-law

It's in there somewhere lol

[Kit-Fox]

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[[KMA]Avenger]

I edited above, i suggest you read the source link at the bottom of my last post my friend

[Kit-Fox]

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[[KMA]Avenger]

Again, i direct your attention to the source link and read the whole thing...our constitution CANNOT be undone by parliament, the monarch or the courts.

So, regardless if parliament or the courts have undone it, they have committed sedition and at that level as i understand it-are guilty of high treason.

Read the source link please! I'm reading the whole thing right now.



In 1215 John was forced to meet with the Barons and thousands of the freemen of England at Runneymede. It was at Runneymede that he was forced to sign the Great Charter; this was a restatement of the Charter of Liberties of Henry I, a restatement of Alfred’s law. Magna Charta, or the Great Charter, was made by all the estates of England, the King, the Barons, and the Freemen of England. It can only be undone by all the estates of England meeting again. Consequently it is beyond the reach of Parliament.

[Kit-Fox]

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[dark lord tacoma]

i blame the lib-dems that nick cleg corrupting our primeminister

[[KMA]Avenger]

I have read through the main points as they aregard to what has already been mentioned as its utter hogswash KMA.

Its like all the documents of the Empire saying that it will last for 1000 years. The words of those who have come before us according btw to our own laws & customs cannot & shall not bind future generations!

By that idea alone the reasoning that because the Magna Carta said XYZ is no justificaiton for it still holding weight today (which of course it doesnt)

Now he was King, William called a parliament. William did not have an election but instead said the peoples representatives would be his parliament. The first thing parliament did was to pass the Declaration of Rights into law as the Bill of Rights 1689. Two codicils. Were added to the bill, first any amendments after the 23 September 1689 were void and not lawful, and second, this Bill is for all time.

You say we have no constitution, where did it go, what act of parliament got rid of something they don't have the right or power to get rid of?

I've been looking into this whole freeman thing and it's getting VERY interesting to say the least.


Anyways, getting kinda caught up in the whole constitution thing again

[Kit-Fox]

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[MEZZANINE]

1) The UK does not have a constitution, the Crown represented by parliment & House of Lords had the legal power and right to remove or create any law the majority of the Parliment & House of Lord supported. I say 'had' deliberately since we started signing it away in 1972 and bit by bit have given more and more power to the EU to create/remove laws for us that our Crown, Parliment & Lords not longer have any say in on our behalf.

2) Governments only hold referendums when they are confident they can get the result they want. To get a referendum what you have to do is launch a dis-information campaign and get everyone who takes part in these polls to lie & say they want Europe, then vote to get out of Europe lol

3) Europe will go bust & break up soon anyway, only question is how much of our money will they burn trying to save it.

[Legendary Apophis]

3) Europe will go bust & break up soon anyway..

If that happens, Europe will be a RIP former powerhouse. USA will remain the only "west world" strong powerhouse, facing Russia, China, India and Japan. Some mid-powerhouses will remain like UK, Germany. The rest of the vulnerable-mid-powerhouses will try to stick themselves together to remain a real mid powerhouse like France+Spain and Italy, to avoid being the pets of some powerhouse due to the fall of the powerhouse that is Europe.