The Death of France

[Juliette]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/ ... AR20120506

Discuss how Hollande's poison is going to destroy France and how his 'spending money will alleviate our debts'-policy will wreak havoc Europe.

[ramen07]

I have mixed feelings. Depending on what he spends on, it could be kickstarting the French economy (or even across the EU), or it could be something terrible like derivatives.

Not feeling too good about it, though.

[MEZZANINE]

Well first of all, can he actually do what he says ? The tax revenue alone wont cover his spending plans so he can only carry out his plans if banks will lend to a France with his policies.

Effects of a Tax+Borrow to spend policy if it goes ahead as planned

1) Frances national debt will increase

2) The interest rates France pays on national debt will increase

3) The interest repayments on debts France has to make will swallow up all the planned income & corporation tax increases

4) In the short term the increased spending will increase employment

5) The wealthier people in France will move their assets to lower tax countries

6) The people of France will not have any more money to spend since their taxes will decrease disposable income

7) Imports into France will drop as personal spending drops, meaning less exports for the UK, Germany and other exporters having a negative effect on these EU countries.

8 ) As more and more wealthy French and French companies more abroad to avoid the higher taxes the tax revenue will drop and France will no longer be able make the interest payments on their national debts

9) The negative effects on other EU countries exports will mean a drop in their imports from France, combined with the higher cost of production in France due to high taxes will mean Frances exports will drop, again dropping Frances tax revenue

10) France defaults on debts and needs bailing out..... only no one will be able to afford to bail them out..... doggy doo hits the fan





Socialism is great in theory if a country is self sufficient, but the moment a socialism has to trade and compete in a worldwide freemarket they fail financially



Only good effect I see this having is the collapse of the EU, will be very painful in the next decade, but longer term splitting the EU back into independent nations will be good.

[Legendary Apophis]

The new flags of France (not to forget Red flag) from Bastille place this night. Now spitting on French flag and its anthem is a new official way! (1 french flag out of 11...that's left wing!)


They wanted the left wing? THEY WILL HAVE THE GREEK ECONOMY!
They wanted the left wing? THEY WILL HAVE SALAFISM!


I am in peace with myself as I didn't vote for that! I voted for Nicolas Sarkozy.

[ramen07]

Well first of all, can he actually do what he says ? The tax revenue alone wont cover his spending plans so he can only carry out his plans if banks will lend to a France with his policies.

Effects of a Tax+Borrow to spend policy if it goes ahead as planned

1) Frances national debt will increase

2) The interest rates France pays on national debt will increase

3) The interest repayments on debts France has to make will swallow up all the planned income & corporation tax increases

4) In the short term the increased spending will increase employment

5) The wealthier people in France will move their assets to lower tax countries

6) The people of France will not have any more money to spend since their taxes will decrease disposable income

7) Imports into France will drop as personal spending drops, meaning less exports for the UK, Germany and other exporters having a negative effect on these EU countries.

8 ) As more and more wealthy French and French companies more abroad to avoid the higher taxes the tax revenue will drop and France will no longer be able make the interest payments on their national debts

9) The negative effects on other EU countries exports will mean a drop in their imports from France, combined with the higher cost of production in France due to high taxes will mean Frances exports will drop, again dropping Frances tax revenue

10) France defaults on debts and needs bailing out..... only no one will be able to afford to bail them out..... doggy doo hits the fan

If you don't mind my asking, what is the alternative at this point?

[doc holliday]

Good luck France. You'll need it. Hopefully America won't do the same thing As you later this year by keeping obama in office.

[Legendary Apophis]

Taken in Bastille, Paris, France after the victory of the socialist party.
Barely any national flag. I'm sure there are pics somewhere where it shows RED FLAGS as there were these too as I heard.




@doc it's not the same, at least in your country whether it's Obama or Romney people will wave US flags, in France it's foreign (non European) and commie flags raised now.

Only good effect I see this having is the collapse of the EU, will be very painful in the next decade, but longer term splitting the EU back into independent nations will be good.

Lol I almost forgot this defeat would also make the eurosceptics happy.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Lol I almost forgot this defeat would also make the eurosceptics happy.

No, not really....well, i'm not happy that socialist communist pigs are being elected into places of power. after all, Russia was the big bad enemy and the world went through the cold war and was nearly plunged into global nuclear warfare on more than a few occasions, the Cuban missile Crises being the most prominent. also, seeing how the EU is a communist system, Hollande will get on very well with Brussels. in theory Jim, Hollandes election should make you very happy.


Anyways, i have a question, after reading the link above-this communist pig says he intends to tax the rich, does he mean tax those who have a few million or tax the uber-rich who have say 100million+?

If he is talking about taxing those who have 2 or 3 million-he will destroy small and medium sized businesses thereby increasing unemployment.

If he intends to leave the middle and upper-middle classes alone and tax the uber-rich...well...i don't think they will like that at all and will most definitely do something about it.

If this guy starts with the "the rich people (meaning the middle and upper middle classes who are the real wealth and employment makers) are to blame and we need to tax them" rhetoric...watch out...class warfare ahead!

[Legendary Apophis]

Lol I almost forgot this defeat would also make the eurosceptics happy.

No, not really....well, i'm not happy that socialist communist pigs are being elected into places of power. after all, Russia was the big bad enemy and the world went through the cold war and was nearly plunged into global nuclear warfare on more than a few occasions, the Cuban missile Crises being the most prominent. also, seeing how the EU is a communist system, Hollande will get on very well with Brussels. in theory Jim, Hollandes election should make you very happy.

I am not a left-wing person...

[[KMA]Avenger]

But you support a communist/unelected/politburo system????

[MEZZANINE]

Well first of all, can he actually do what he says ? The tax revenue alone wont cover his spending plans so he can only carry out his plans if banks will lend to a France with his policies.

Effects of a Tax+Borrow to spend policy if it goes ahead as planned

1) Frances national debt will increase

2) The interest rates France pays on national debt will increase

3) The interest repayments on debts France has to make will swallow up all the planned income & corporation tax increases

4) In the short term the increased spending will increase employment

5) The wealthier people in France will move their assets to lower tax countries

6) The people of France will not have any more money to spend since their taxes will decrease disposable income

7) Imports into France will drop as personal spending drops, meaning less exports for the UK, Germany and other exporters having a negative effect on these EU countries.

8 ) As more and more wealthy French and French companies more abroad to avoid the higher taxes the tax revenue will drop and France will no longer be able make the interest payments on their national debts

9) The negative effects on other EU countries exports will mean a drop in their imports from France, combined with the higher cost of production in France due to high taxes will mean Frances exports will drop, again dropping Frances tax revenue

10) France defaults on debts and needs bailing out..... only no one will be able to afford to bail them out..... doggy doo hits the fan

If you don't mind my asking, what is the alternative at this point?

Living within our means, being honest with people, of course people want more public services, more public spending, more infrastructure projects, better pensions, better wages, lower working hours etc etc and if your promise people these things they will cheer and vote for you

BUT

The TRUTH is we cant have everything we want without paying for it, we can only have what we can afford and work for. The more we get paid & better our wages/pensions are the less competitive with others countries like China so our exports drop, imports increase, spending outways income and it all goes to hell

What we need in France and every EU country is pragmatism and honesty

Mezz's 10 point plan

1) Break up the EU super bureaucracy, the few wealthier countries cant support the many less wealthy to have equal living conditions, it's simply a money pit. Go back to the EEC trading community, the only bit we ever needed.

2) Reduce public spending to levels we can actually afford to pay for without borrowing

3) Pay off national debts

4) Increase import taxes on non-EEC imports to a level where EEC business can compete, this will drop non-EEC imports, prices on consumer products will increase heavily and end the disposable mentality, people will have to save for luxury goods and reaslise they can all have everything the adverts say they need to be happy. Homegrown manufacturing will slowly increase and with it employment of the masses in the lower skill/wage brackets, as employment increases so will tax revenue and public spending can slowly increase inline with income.

5) Limit immigration to a system like Australia has, only let in people who have skill we need or are financially independent .

6) Force the unemployed to work for their benefits, to many people dont get jobs just because they get so much on benefits that working would only earn them £100 pcm more so they dont bother, you cant reduce benefits as most in this bracket have kids who would suffer but if you force them to do menial work for their benefits then taking a low paid job for a little more money would seems much more attractive.

7) Put laws in place that prevent any political party from borrowing money they wont repay within their term in government. Its shocking that politicians spend for popularity then leave the debts for the next elected party to repay.

8 ) Put laws in place to ensure a cut of the treasury income goes into a Sinking Fund, all major businesses and property portfolio's have these to set money aside for future major works, countries should have them for major infrastructure projects.

9) Massive tax reform, cut out all the stealth taxes, end VAT, have all personal national taxes based purely on income, and corporations/companies to be taxed even if their incomes go abroad ( Recently heard that Amazon thats mankes 140 mill profit pa in the UK pays no UK tax that kinda thing has to end, make it here, pay tax on it here )

10) Banking reform, split investment banks from the essential high street functions, that way if the investment bank fail again... let them go bust like any other badly run business. Yes this will mean paying small bank fees for our day to day transactions but well worth it.




This is the Hard Painful way to make our economies work...... it's also the reason I will never be voted into power because people dont like the truth, they prefer pretty lies

[Legendary Apophis]

But you support a communist/unelected/politburo system????

Think what you want, I am not left wing.

[[KMA]Avenger]

My point is Jim, regardless of what you say and think of yourself politically, the fact still remains you support a system based on communism. as much as you might not agree, it's fact and you sir cannot deny it....as much as you may try

[[KMA]Avenger]

Well first of all, can he actually do what he says ? The tax revenue alone wont cover his spending plans so he can only carry out his plans if banks will lend to a France with his policies.

Effects of a Tax+Borrow to spend policy if it goes ahead as planned

1) Frances national debt will increase

2) The interest rates France pays on national debt will increase

3) The interest repayments on debts France has to make will swallow up all the planned income & corporation tax increases

4) In the short term the increased spending will increase employment

5) The wealthier people in France will move their assets to lower tax countries

6) The people of France will not have any more money to spend since their taxes will decrease disposable income

7) Imports into France will drop as personal spending drops, meaning less exports for the UK, Germany and other exporters having a negative effect on these EU countries.

8 ) As more and more wealthy French and French companies more abroad to avoid the higher taxes the tax revenue will drop and France will no longer be able make the interest payments on their national debts

9) The negative effects on other EU countries exports will mean a drop in their imports from France, combined with the higher cost of production in France due to high taxes will mean Frances exports will drop, again dropping Frances tax revenue

10) France defaults on debts and needs bailing out..... only no one will be able to afford to bail them out..... doggy doo hits the fan

If you don't mind my asking, what is the alternative at this point?

Living within our means, being honest with people, of course people want more public services, more public spending, more infrastructure projects, better pensions, better wages, lower working hours etc etc and if your promise people these things they will cheer and vote for you

BUT

The TRUTH is we cant have everything we want without paying for it, we can only have what we can afford and work for. The more we get paid & better our wages/pensions are the less competitive with others countries like China so our exports drop, imports increase, spending outways income and it all goes to hell

What we need in France and every EU country is pragmatism and honesty

Mezz's 10 point plan

1) Break up the EU super bureaucracy, the few wealthier countries cant support the many less wealthy to have equal living conditions, it's simply a money pit. Go back to the EEC trading community, the only bit we ever needed.

2) Reduce public spending to levels we can actually afford to pay for without borrowing

3) Pay off national debts

4) Increase import taxes on non-EEC imports to a level where EEC business can compete, this will drop non-EEC imports, prices on consumer products will increase heavily and end the disposable mentality, people will have to save for luxury goods and reaslise they can all have everything the adverts say they need to be happy. Homegrown manufacturing will slowly increase and with it employment of the masses in the lower skill/wage brackets, as employment increases so will tax revenue and public spending can slowly increase inline with income.

5) Limit immigration to a system like Australia has, only let in people who have skill we need or are financially independent .

6) Force the unemployed to work for their benefits, to many people dont get jobs just because they get so much on benefits that working would only earn them £100 pcm more so they dont bother, you cant reduce benefits as most in this bracket have kids who would suffer but if you force them to do menial work for their benefits then taking a low paid job for a little more money would seems much more attractive.

7) Put laws in place that prevent any political party from borrowing money they wont repay within their term in government. Its shocking that politicians spend for popularity then leave the debts for the next elected party to repay.

8 ) Put laws in place to ensure a cut of the treasury income goes into a Sinking Fund, all major businesses and property portfolio's have these to set money aside for future major works, countries should have them for major infrastructure projects.

9) Massive tax reform, cut out all the stealth taxes, end VAT, have all personal national taxes based purely on income, and corporations/companies to be taxed even if their incomes go abroad ( Recently heard that Amazon thats mankes 140 mill profit pa in the UK pays no UK tax that kinda thing has to end, make it here, pay tax on it here )

10) Banking reform, split investment banks from the essential high street functions, that way if the investment bank fail again... let them go bust like any other badly run business. Yes this will mean paying small bank fees for our day to day transactions but well worth it.




This is the Hard Painful way to make our economies work...... it's also the reason I will never be voted into power because people dont like the truth, they prefer pretty lies

You forgot 1 thing, get rid of the communist central banking system. if you don't then even if someone with the power to implement your above reforms comes to power-they will ultimately fail and will most likely end up as dead as JFK.

Also, keep in mind that if you only have access to 1 money supply and that comes from a for-profit corporation, and you are borrowing their money at interest, then no amount of taxes and reforms will ever pay back the initial borrowed sum, let alone the accumulated interest which will automatically wipe out (without looking above) 2 or 3 of your reforms.

[Legendary Apophis]

My point is Jim, regardless of what you say and think of yourself politically, the fact still remains you support a system based on communism. as much as you might not agree, it's fact and you sir cannot deny it....as much as you may try

If I was a communist, I would also be in favour of their economic/society/values program, which I reject with disgust. Far right parties are against the proposal of non citizen foreigners to vote in the local elections, I am agreeing with these parties, doesn't mean I am far right as it's something the party I voted for also is against it.