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I've been thinking about Pinpoint Strikes vs Sabatoging, and it'd definitly be best if they didn't both do the same things with one relying on Attack and the other relying on Covert. Since a Pinpoint Strike may very well be a suicide mission, sometimes, I've been thinking on trying to get this all to balance out. I've come up with what Sabatoging and Pinpoint Strikes should do, IMO (but not all at once, each is an option):

Pinpoint Strike:
- Decrease Unit Production
- Decrease Spy Level
- Kill Units

Sabatoge:
- Destroy Fortification Level
- Destroy Siege Level
- Destroy Weapons

Ships (when implimented) (other than assisting in an attack):
- Destroy Ships (with minimal crew on yours)

What do you all think?

[edit] OK, since people are thinking Pinpoint Strikes are Spy abilities, (not everyone has read the "Research and Development" thread where the idea spawned, it seems) I'll give a small explanation. In a Pinpoint Strike, one sends a certain number of Attack Units to target something specific.

Their success in dependant on the:

• level of the item they're destroying
• attacker's attack rating
• number of Attack Units sent
• target's defense rating
• number of Defense Units sent.

Covert has nothing to do with the success of a Pinpoint Strike. In fact, it's a way to (try to) take down players who rely only on covert. That's why I call it a balancing idea.

It really sounds fantastic!

i like it but how does it work do u still need a higher covert to carry it out cause then i just see the powerful players just taking out everyone who gets close to them. i like the idea of a suicide mission, cause thats what happens sometimes some just say screw it and blows himself up to take u out. if put in to the game right it would be a good way of balancing the game and having the top people would still have to play and worry about everyone in the game.

It would be cool to send 500 soldiers on a sabotage mission to take out 20 weapons, or a covert level (for example)

Considering that higher Covert levels cost over 1M Naq to attain (or replace), I don't think ANYBODY should be subjected to a million-Naq hit, especailly not via sabotage. Same goes for fortification levels and seige levels. Those elements max out pretty quickly, anyway, and become irrelevant at upper levels, because EVERYBODY maxes both out early.

I do agree with hitting Personnel; I reccomend it as a Tauri special ability in another thread. But that's about ALL I agree with.

Spys are already powerful enough. Temporary abilities would be better for them or directing them in other directions like requiring attack turns/naq to perform spy actions.

scben wrote:u still need a higher covert to carry it out

!?!?!?
Pinpoint Strikes are Attack vs Defense while Sabatoge is Covert vs Covert. Covert has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of a Pinpoint Strike.

Xheralt wrote:Considering that higher Covert levels cost over 1M Naq to attain (or replace), I don't think ANYBODY should be subjected to a million-Naq hit,

Well, you should have a high defense to protect it, then. If you have a high covert and no defense or offense, then you deserve to get fried. Higher levels should be more difficult to destroy, though.

especailly not via sabotage.

!?!?!? Where do you people get these ideas!? Pinpoint Strikes are dependant on your Attack, the number of Attack Units you send, the target's defense, and the number of Defense Units the target has.

Same goes for fortification levels and seige levels. Those elements max out pretty quickly, anyway, and become irrelevant at upper levels, because EVERYBODY maxes both out early.

Well, if siege and fortification upgrades become research items, then they could theoretically increase indefinately, and you need a way to limit that in the game.

The other problem that I would have with this.. is honestly it would favor 2 races far more than others (Tauri and Reps).

Asger wrote:The other problem that I would have with this.. is honestly it would favor 2 races far more than others (Tauri and Reps).

Well, the Asguard would have a high defense, so they're less likely to get hit be a pinpoint strike. The Goa'uld have an income bonus, so they can just buy more weapons.

I wrote:Considering that higher Covert levels cost over 1M Naq to attain (or replace), I don't think ANYBODY should be subjected to a million-Naq hit,

NoDot wrote:Well, you should have a high defense to protect it, then. If you have a high covert and no defense or offense, then you deserve to get fried. Higher levels should be more difficult to destroy, though.

That's not the point -- and I DO have high def relative to my ranking. My next covert level will cost me several million. Having to pay that twice would not just be bad, but absolutely crippling.

I wrote:especailly not via sabotage.

NoDot wrote:Where do you people get these ideas!? {snip}

From misunderstanding your original post. OK, even if Pinpoint strikes are a conventional attack, the effect they would have on the average player (like me) is still way too high. And if something like this is the only thing that can knock the top seeds down a peg, then they are already too powerful for a fun and balanced game.

As as noted elsewhere by others, covert ops are already too powerful as is.

I wrote:Same goes for fortification levels and seige levels. Those elements max out pretty quickly, anyway, and become irrelevant at upper levels, because EVERYBODY maxes both out early.

NoDot wrote:Well, if siege and fortification upgrades become research items, then they could theoretically increase indefinately, and you need a way to limit that in the game.

Well, any sort of unlimited program, once it gets farther along, is more difficult for latecomers to catch up to. The only balancing mechanism for that is game resets.

Xheralt wrote:That's not the point -- and I DO have high def relative to my ranking. My next covert level will cost me several million. Having to pay that twice would not just be bad, but absolutely crippling.

It wouldn't be crippling because everyone would have to contend with this. It would just keep spy levels in check more. What is truly crippling is when only 1 or 2 people can get level 15 or 16 covert.

Xheralt wrote:From misunderstanding your original post. OK, even if Pinpoint strikes are a conventional attack, the effect they would have on the average player (like me) is still way too high. And if something like this is the only thing that can knock the top seeds down a peg, then they are already too powerful for a fun and balanced game.

As as noted elsewhere by others, covert ops are already too powerful as is.

Covert ops are too powerful. That is precisely the thought that gave birth to the idea. Now everything is equally powerful.The fact is that how powerful something is is a relative to measure to how much more powerful it is to other things. If everything is equally powerful than nothing is really powerful.

Enfant Terrible wrote:Covert ops are too powerful. That is precisely the thought that gave birth to the idea. Now everything is equally powerful.The fact is that how powerful something is is a relative to measure to how much more powerful it is to other things. If everything is equally powerful than nothing is really powerful.

curently covert power is and can only be used by powerful users thorts the weack ones........u can not evectivly and economicly sab someone close to your owen covert action.......and this closenes comes to a couple of mil covert action in some cases.....

the thing is you can be a powerful player by investing in nothing but covert. if you invest in nothing but strike or defense you are not in a good position at all.

This would mean that to be in a strong position you would need all 3 elements of the game. Such that a high rank would actually reflect how powerful you are. Right now someone can have #1 ranked covert and no strike or defense whatsoever and destroy a player ranked 50th in all three areas. This is trying to remedy that.

NoDot wrote:

Asger wrote:The other problem that I would have with this.. is honestly it would favor 2 races far more than others (Tauri and Reps).

Well, the Asguard would have a high defense, so they're less likely to get hit be a pinpoint strike. The Goa'uld have an income bonus, so they can just buy more weapons.

Offense is stronger than defense.

Basically all that I feel this does is make the Tauri and Replicators extremely powerful at destroying weeks/months etc of work esp at higher ranks. With some of the huge alliances in the game it would effectively drive people away from playing.

like forgive_me said, once you get to a certain covert level/spy count, youre untouchable by spies... as long as you have level 13 and 2000 spies or more, even strongest users in game would lose much more in spy power than u would in weapons...

several upgrades are strongly needed:

1) MORE DEATH!!! (or a way to decrease troop production)... troops are too powerful of a stat, esp with no serious way of decreasing them...

2) a way to kill spies or decrease spy level... spy level decrease must take A LOT (obviously since it costs so much).

so yea, i stongly feel that these two issues have to be addressed - these two stats (covert and units) for the most part, can only grow, its VERY HARD to decrease them significantly, while other things (for the most part, weapons), can be destroyed... there HAS to be a way to decrease ALL stats of a player, so noone is untouchable, because in real life, noone ever is... as itt is now, someone with high covert is untouchable by spy action, and if they have high enough troop production, theyre makin enough naq to run away with the game... (sorry if this post is rambling lol, i was talkin on the phone while writing it, hope it makes some sense lol, if not, just ask to clarify).