Sab damage on attack

[Tekki]

Suggestion:

• Up covert turns to 200
• Increase sab damage when defence is 0
• Keep limit on number of times you can be sabbed

Reasons

• 100 is good but if i have enough attack turns and UU I can keep massing forever, so why am I limited on the sabs? The limit on number of times I can sab someone still works like crit and nox for them but I can move on to other people to sab them if the limit was higher.
• There is only one way to kill a strike if you are the aggressor, and that is to sab it. But at the moment they may have say 3million weapons and you get at most 60k. With the limit on the number of times you can sab them, it doesn't make it very cost effective to do. Now this isn't matter of cost, it's a matter of being able to fight properly. And being able to fight properly means being able to destroy strike as well.

I could write more but that's the core of the matter.

Thanks for reading.

[Lore]

Suggestion:

• Up covert turns to 200
• Increase sab damage when defence is 0
• Keep limit on number of times you can be sabbed

Reasons

• 100 is good but if i have enough attack turns and UU I can keep massing forever, so why am I limited on the sabs? The limit on number of times I can sab someone still works like crit and nox for them but I can move on to other people to sab them if the limit was higher.
• There is only one way to kill a strike if you are the aggressor, and that is to sab it. But at the moment they may have say 3million weapons and you get at most 60k. With the limit on the number of times you can sab them, it doesn't make it very cost effective to do. Now this isn't matter of cost, it's a matter of being able to fight properly. And being able to fight properly means being able to destroy strike as well.

I could write more but that's the core of the matter.

Thanks for reading.

Only thing I can say is, instead of making it 200, I'd rather just see more power to sab, OR an even better idea thats been suggested over and over again, is allow the use of "extra" covert ops to increase the max sab damage.

If sending 100K spies in is all thats need to win, then sending 200K spies in (And accepting the higher losses" should net you 50 to 100% increase in destroyed weapons count. Needs to be capped of course, or on a sliding scale.

[Tekki]

that works, what could also be done instead of increasing the number of covert turns is to decrease the amount it takes to sab, instead of 3 maybe 2.

But I think the key thing is increasing damage to attack - somehow.

[Wolf359]

Yeah, that's right, make the game even worse by having the ability to sab more. How about instead of increasing that, we just reduce the ability to attack/mass forever instead - it's the worst feature of the game, the main cause of the reduction in any challenge - and what has made the game massively boring.

And instead of making damage greater when def is 0, why not make it less with increasing def? There are also other, better, ideas on how to be able to kill a strike - such as strike becoming killable through normal attack when def is at 0. Not sure covert should be measured against def in this way though anyway - because defence is not anti-espionage - that's what the other players covert is for.

Also, covert capacity already doubled.

Prefer Lore's suggestion - but, the way 'covert' works is all arse about face anyway. The idea of covert is that it remains undetectable - so logically that would mean that sending in 1 agent has more chance of remaining undetected than sending in 3 million. You might also argue that sending in 2 agents is more effective than 1, as it doubles the chance of success, in case 1 gets caught. But there comes a point where sending ina large amount of agents 'undetected' just gets stupid.

[grimgor]

well you dont really need 200 just go on ppt and let it build up agian

[Lore]

Yeah, that's right, make the game even worse by having the ability to sab more. How about instead of increasing that, we just reduce the ability to attack/mass forever instead - it's the worst feature of the game, the main cause of the reduction in any challenge - and what has made the game massively boring.
I have to say I'm shocked at this, you say sabbing is the worst feature of the game and the main cause of the reduction in challenge? I always assumed that was unlimited AT in your eyes? I don't see your argument at all in saying "sabbing" is what has made the game massively boring.


And instead of making damage greater when def is 0, why not make it less with increasing def? There are also other, better, ideas on how to be able to kill a strike - such as strike becoming killable through normal attack when def is at 0. Not sure covert should be measured against def in this way though anyway - because defence is not anti-espionage - that's what the other players covert is for.
I agree, covert and anti should be just like strike and defense. The entire concept it kinna hosed.


Also, covert capacity already doubled.

Prefer Lore's suggestion - but, the way 'covert' works is all arse about face anyway. The idea of covert is that it remains undetectable - so logically that would mean that sending in 1 agent has more chance of remaining undetected than sending in 3 million. You might also argue that sending in 2 agents is more effective than 1, as it doubles the chance of success, in case 1 gets caught. But there comes a point where sending ina large amount of agents 'undetected' just gets stupid.agree with the last part, sending 20 mill spies into someones realm when its only 5 mill in size is rediculous, but I disagree about loan spies, loan spies are far less effective the groups. Also its not the amount of people you send that decides if they are caught or not, but the quality(Covert power) so if you want more damage done you have to send more spies to do it. 1 guy cant sabb 150K bunkers of weapons.

[Wolf359]

Lore,

I think you misread that first part, I'm talking about the ability to be able to attack forever (i.e. unlimited AT) as being the worst feature.....

How about instead of increasing that, we just reduce the ability to attack/mass forever instead - it's the worst feature of the game, the main cause of the reduction in any challenge - and what has made the game massively boring.

You also seem to be disagreeing while also agreeing with me on my last comment. I said it is more covert to send 1 spy than it is to send 3 million - but I also said that sending 2 would be more effective than sending 1, but that there comes a point where sending in a large number becomes less effective. - so although you said you disagree about it, your reasoning actually said the same thing.

I agree completely about the covert power statement and also about the same statement that more covert agents should equal more destruction, but the flaw there is that the coding of the game does not recognise the stupidity of millions of agents going undetected - and this is why covert has always been regarded as being overpowered.

[GeneralChaos]

Suggestion:

• Up covert turns to 200
• Increase sab damage when defence is 0
• Keep limit on number of times you can be sabbed

Reasons

• 100 is good but if i have enough attack turns and UU I can keep massing forever, so why am I limited on the sabs? The limit on number of times I can sab someone still works like crit and nox for them but I can move on to other people to sab them if the limit was higher.
• There is only one way to kill a strike if you are the aggressor, and that is to sab it. But at the moment they may have say 3million weapons and you get at most 60k. With the limit on the number of times you can sab them, it doesn't make it very cost effective to do. Now this isn't matter of cost, it's a matter of being able to fight properly. And being able to fight properly means being able to destroy strike as well.

I could write more but that's the core of the matter.

Thanks for reading.

I suggested this as an idea for those who want to sit with 0 def 0 covert 0 ms but have a 2trill strike, make it if they have 0 def for 6-8+ hours your sabbing power is increased 200% so u kill twice as many weapons, you cannot do it as soon as the def hits 0, as it would give the person being massed no chance at all to respond.

[Lore]

@ Wolf, My bad on the first part, was a misread on my part, and yes I was agreeing on the second, just stating it differently.

[Tekki]

Lore,

I think you misread that first part, I'm talking about the ability to be able to attack forever (i.e. unlimited AT) as being the worst feature.....

How about instead of increasing that, we just reduce the ability to attack/mass forever instead - it's the worst feature of the game, the main cause of the reduction in any challenge - and what has made the game massively boring.

You also seem to be disagreeing while also agreeing with me on my last comment. I said it is more covert to send 1 spy than it is to send 3 million - but I also said that sending 2 would be more effective than sending 1, but that there comes a point where sending in a large number becomes less effective. - so although you said you disagree about it, your reasoning actually said the same thing.

I agree completely about the covert power statement and also about the same statement that more covert agents should equal more destruction, but the flaw there is that the coding of the game does not recognise the stupidity of millions of agents going undetected - and this is why covert has always been regarded as being overpowered.

I've been in another... well lol game that did the 1 spy thing. it worked okay so long as your over all covert was higher than theirs but it made sabbing way way way too cheap, so while sending in a zillion spies may be illogical it's the only way to create balance on this one.

I'm not talking about being able to sab someone forever, I'm talking about being able to sab more people, which means I lose more men and therefore lose more resources and the ability to fight 'forever' with the endless ats.

If not doubling the covert - whcih I am aware was already doubled - how about reducing the number of turns to sab with, from 3 to 2. That would also serve to help, or increasing the recharge rate.

That's secondary though a bit more power on sabbing strike or some way to destroy it is what I'm really on about here.

[Wolf359]

I don't think it's unachievable to create a system in which sending in say 6 spies is actually more covert than sending in 5 million.

There would be a moving optimum scale in this case on what is the most effective number to send in, which would be based on the covert power of the two opposing sides. So for example, say that sending in 50 spies would be the most optimum number.... sending in less would decrease the chances of detection, and thus more agents returning, but it would decrease the amount of damage done. Sending in more than 50 would increase the chances of detection, i.e. a higher proportion of spies killed but if undetected, would increase the amount of damage done.

This could actually give covert level more meaning than being a simple multiplier.

@ Lore - nay problem mate - I'm just enjoying the debating with you at the moment!

[Lore]

I don't think it's unachievable to create a system in which sending in say 6 spies is actually more covert than sending in 5 million.

There would be a moving optimum scale in this case on what is the most effective number to send in, which would be based on the covert power of the two opposing sides. So for example, say that sending in 50 spies would be the most optimum number.... sending in less would decrease the chances of detection, and thus more agents returning, but it would decrease the amount of damage done. Sending in more than 50 would increase the chances of detection, i.e. a higher proportion of spies killed but if undetected, would increase the amount of damage done.

This could actually give covert level more meaning than being a simple multiplier.

@ Lore - nay problem mate - I'm just enjoying the debating with you at the moment!

I also would not mind seeing the ability to sacrifise spies for max damage

[urogard]

there is a place that has that stuff lore, cough cough, forbidden topic