Massing Updates

[Deadliest Wes]

OK - as for the alliance repair. A suggestion that allows more repair, without hurting the small accounts getting hit (when they otherwise would not) due to free attack repair, was: limit alliance repair to def only.

Upping it to 2-3 per turn will still hurt the smaller accounts. Farmers don't use it to repair after every hit, just after every couple.

With what Admin is suggesting, you can't use it for farmer's repairs at all. So all the repair costs will be on their own back.

Re the "But now you can repair a few times, then they'll phase". Just want to get some questions answered.
1) If you are going after an entire alliance this isn't really a problem. Since they'll only repair 2-3 people before out of repairs, and the rest of the alliance is free game no?
2) Perhaps we should alter the repair to reset some of the phase when used? Could make it more interesting then just a "oh, they've hit 10 times, lets repair now"

How fair is it that if your getting massed and have 50m defense weapons getting that free if the attacker cant get it free?

[GrizzZzzly]

I'm not sure who implanted the idea into people's heads that farming hurts smaller players. Thats rediculous. Farming 0 defences in 99% of the time means farming innactive people. And with this update thats the only thing your changing. People's ability to farm 0 defences.

[Deadliest Wes]

I'm not sure who implanted the idea into people's heads that farming hurts smaller players. Thats rediculous. Farming 0 defences in 99% of the time means farming innactive people. And with this update thats the only thing your changing. People's ability to farm 0 defences.

You are right. The only people who are complaining is those who are cowards to lose anything and not build a defense. If they would build a defense then they would not get farmed for their big income.

[Sarevok]

How fair is it that if your getting massed and have 50m defense weapons getting that free if the attacker cant get it free?

One is an aggressive action. One is defensive. As Admin said

it is, afterall, meant as an alliance defensive tactic...not a free farm tool.

[Iƒrit]

How fair is it that if your getting massed and have 50m defense weapons getting that free if the attacker cant get it free?

One is an aggressive action. One is defensive. As Admin said

it is, afterall, meant as an alliance defensive tactic...not a free farm tool.

I understand it is a defensive tactic, however in fairness he isn't referring to using it as a tool for farming he is talking about massing, and I think he has a point. It's in some retrospect, unbalanced that an attacker has to pay to repair his weapons when massing but the defender wont when being massed.

[Robe]

This update has been well received with the exception of Alliance Repair.

That is because everyone knows that Alliance PPT prevents massing dead in its tracks,
whereas Alliance Repair simply increases the cost.

In order to make progress we should focus on balancing massing not farming.
If a player keeps too much naq out (for their defence) then they are going to farmed - full stop.

Alliance PPT and Alliance Repairs together have significantly impacted on a players capability to mass the defence
of someone in a large active alliance.

The combination is the problem. Just looking at Alliance repair is ignoring the greatest barrier to massing.

If a small player/alliance wants to retaliate against a player in a larger alliance, then they need to build an expensive strike.
When they start massing there is a decent chance that someone in command will hit Alliance PPT and sab out their strike
(before they get a chance to try again).

That is why Alliance PPT is the problem and alliance repair is just a nuisance.

If you want to get rid of both you then you will make many players happy.
However, since you cant please everyone ... updates need to be incremental not radical.

Incrementally reducing both Alliance PPT and Alliance Repair together is worthy of more discussion if we want to make massing feasible from the small player/alliance's perspective.

[Deadliest Wes]

How fair is it that if your getting massed and have 50m defense weapons getting that free if the attacker cant get it free?

One is an aggressive action. One is defensive. As Admin said

it is, afterall, meant as an alliance defensive tactic...not a free farm tool.

Ok well lets just forget the fact that its a war game and not mass anyone. I dont care if its a defensive tactic or not. Its not a fair one if u do that. It needs to be 3 repairs every turn. Thats a big downgrade from what it was but its also can help if u are being massed at the beginning of the turn, middle and end.

I got it. everyone stop all attacks. DONT invest in your attack nor defenses. Its a sabbing game now. hope you got plenty of naq to buy convert levels past 37 because your gonna have to use your convert agents now. Sab their weapons! Its the only way to actually hurt anyone now. (until admin changes that to attack weapons only)

[Sarevok]

How fair is it that if your getting massed and have 50m defense weapons getting that free if the attacker cant get it free?

One is an aggressive action. One is defensive. As Admin said

it is, afterall, meant as an alliance defensive tactic...not a free farm tool.

I understand it is a defensive tactic, however in fairness he isn't referring to using it as a tool for farming he is talking about massing, and I think he has a point. It's in some retrospect, unbalanced that an attacker has to pay to repair his weapons when massing but the defender wont when being massed.

It could also be considered unfair, that you are massing someone who, in the majority of cases, is offline, and were they online, would not only be repairing weapons, but units as well. This effectively gives them the chance to behave as if online, without actually being there.

Ok well lets just forget the fact that its a war game and not mass anyone. I dont care if its a defensive tactic or not. Its not a fair one if u do that. It needs to be 3 repairs every turn.

I got it. everyone stop all attacks. DONT invest in your attack nor defenses. Its a sabbing game now. hope you got plenty of naq to buy convert levels past 37 because your gonna have to use your convert agents now. Sab their weapons! Its the only way to actually hurt anyone now. (until admin changes that to attack weapons only)

It's hardly an unfair tactic when it can be used by both sides.
And your comment about building attack and defence is mute. How effective is 20m spies with a covert level 38 going to be against 0 defence?

[Iƒrit]

How fair is it that if your getting massed and have 50m defense weapons getting that free if the attacker cant get it free?

One is an aggressive action. One is defensive. As Admin said

it is, afterall, meant as an alliance defensive tactic...not a free farm tool.

I understand it is a defensive tactic, however in fairness he isn't referring to using it as a tool for farming he is talking about massing, and I think he has a point. It's in some retrospect, unbalanced that an attacker has to pay to repair his weapons when massing but the defender wont when being massed.

It could also be considered unfair, that you are massing someone who, in the majority of cases, is offline, and were they online, would not only be repairing weapons, but units as well. This effectively gives them the chance to behave as if online, without actually being there.

with all regards that has been an aspect of the game for a long time. Weapon repairs were given in game and like always people will find a way to abuse it and twist it to something beyond what its intended for. I do not think its okay to give high strikes the capacity to farm what would naturally be unprofitable, but I do think it is okay to allow people massing the chance for repairs just as their opponents do, you choose to be logged in or not to

[Deadliest Wes]

How fair is it that if your getting massed and have 50m defense weapons getting that free if the attacker cant get it free?

One is an aggressive action. One is defensive. As Admin said

it is, afterall, meant as an alliance defensive tactic...not a free farm tool.

I understand it is a defensive tactic, however in fairness he isn't referring to using it as a tool for farming he is talking about massing, and I think he has a point. It's in some retrospect, unbalanced that an attacker has to pay to repair his weapons when massing but the defender wont when being massed.

It could also be considered unfair, that you are massing someone who, in the majority of cases, is offline, and were they online, would not only be repairing weapons, but units as well. This effectively gives them the chance to behave as if online, without actually being there.

with all regards that has been an aspect of the game for a long time. Weapon repairs were given in game and like always people will find a way to abuse it and twist it to something beyond what its intended for. I do not think its okay to give high strikes the capacity to farm what would naturally be unprofitable, but I do think it is okay to allow people massing the chance for repairs just as their opponents do, you choose to be logged in or not to

you couldnt be more right.

[Sarevok]

with all regards that has been an aspect of the game for a long time. Weapon repairs were given in game and like always people will find a way to abuse it and twist it to something beyond what its intended for. I do not think its okay to give high strikes the capacity to farm what would naturally be unprofitable, but I do think it is okay to allow people massing the chance for repairs just as their opponents do, you choose to be logged in or not to

:-) you couldnt be more right.

Perhaps a game rename to "He who doesn't work or sleep, WINS!"? Would be more fitting if your saying people shouldn't have a life to defend their account.

[MEZZANINE]

2 points to clarify

Alliance repairs effects on farming - This does not hurt smaller accounts because they get attacked, it hurts smaller accounts by allowing bigger accounts to farm the players that the smaller account would usually farm, thereby denying smaller accounts the farming income they used to have before alliance repair was created

Alliance repairs on massing - This allows a few actives to defend many low active or inactives, and alliance repair CAN prevent massings if well timed as they cause those being massed to phase


IMO the fewer alliance repairs/PPT the better, better again would be to remove them all together. If you want to save your alliance mates from a massing do it the old fashioned way by taking down the attacker, not just sitting there pressing alliance repair.

[Robe]

Alliance repairs effects on farming - This does not hurt smaller accounts because they get attacked, it hurts smaller accounts by allowing bigger accounts to farm the players that the smaller account would usually farm, thereby denying smaller accounts the farming income they used to have before alliance repair was created

If a player leaves too much naq out for their defence then they are going to be farmed by the first person who sees it.

Alliance repairs on massing - This allows a few actives to defend many low active or inactives, and alliance repair CAN prevent massings if well timed as they cause those being massed to phase

Repairs make it harder and more costly to mass.
Repairs can delay but not prevent a massing if an opponent is determined.
Alliance PPT can prevent a massing, especially when small players/alliances are fighting large active alliances.

IMO the fewer alliance repairs/PPT the better, better again would be to remove them all together.

On this we completely agree.

I just wanted to point out that the discussion seemed to have gone off track by focusing on farming instead of massing.

If we continue to only look at Alliance repair then we are ignoring the greatest barrier to massing.

That is why I think both features should be reviewed together on an equal footing.

[MEZZANINE]

Alliance repairs effects on farming - This does not hurt smaller accounts because they get attacked, it hurts smaller accounts by allowing bigger accounts to farm the players that the smaller account would usually farm, thereby denying smaller accounts the farming income they used to have before alliance repair was created

If a player leaves too much naq out for their defence then they are going to be farmed by the first person who sees it.

Bigger players with bigger strikes will still hit smaller targets if they have enough naq on show to make a profit, but hits that are not-profitable for them when they have to pay their own repairs are profitable for smaller players with smaller strikes. No alliance repair means more profitable hits for smaller players.

Alliance repairs on massing - This allows a few actives to defend many low active or inactives, and alliance repair CAN prevent massings if well timed as they cause those being massed to phase

Repairs make it harder and more costly to mass.
Repairs can delay but not prevent a massing if an opponent is determined.
Alliance PPT can prevent a massing, especially when small players/alliances are fighting large active alliances.

Id love to know how you mass someone who has phased lol

With a rota covering alliance repair 24/7 ( which the empires and a couple of the bigger alliance do during wartime ) you can eventually mass 99.9% of supers by going back hour and hour but def weapons can be maintained indefinitely through well timed alliance repairs which means you need to sab or AC then Sab, fine if you got the levels, not good if your an ascending or smaller player with low levels.

[Lithium]

remove alliance repair at all , that just prevent a successful massing and limit allie ppt in 3 hrs of max 12 hrs per week.