Raiding

[Spacey]

How does it only temporarily gain UU? I ve roided easily over 1 mil without going down but 10k or so....

You don't really have anything to show for it other than the spoils of your raids.

If you had no turns how much UU would you have in a day? A week? A month? Would you be able to significantly replenish troops when defending against attacks without relying on raids to get UU?

Therefore, and real gains are generally though of as by having a decent UP.

[Rukia]

How does it only temporarily gain UU? I ve roided easily over 1 mil without going down but 10k or so....

it gains u a few uu yes...but ur UP doesn't change. over the long run, its better to attack for naq to boost UP unless u plan to ascend soon ^_^

[darkness5723]

errr.. sorry to bust your bubble but it's really not best to spend money on UP unless you've got alot of money and want to be lazy with it.

[Spacey]

errr.. sorry to bust your bubble but it's really not best to spend money on UP unless you've got alot of money and want to be lazy with it.

Let's agree to disagree, since there are many ways to play the game, and we all know the 'best' way.

K

[Rukia]

errr.. sorry to bust your bubble but it's really not best to spend money on UP unless you've got alot of money and want to be lazy with it.

i agree since i like to sit back and be lazy w/my naq =P

[darkness5723]

Well let's resort to math then. If you spend 200bil on turns and raid with them, you will have a certain amount of UU. That UU will make money which you can then use to buy more turns and raid more.
Now let's say you bought UP instead. Yes you get more UU a day, but you will always have more UU if you bought turns and raided (assuming you have infinite time and access to turns on hand).
I'm not saying UP isn't good to buy, I"m just saying raiding is better mathematically. I'm going for 100k raw UP once I finish ascensions, even though it's a huge waste of naq. why? cuz I'm lazy too. heh.

[Ynnej]

Ill agree that I prefer working on UP but when I heard the serious penalties for having a high UP when you ascend, I quit pursuing it. (Already over 2,500 UP I hear Ill have to pay additional Naq, the last 2,000 slots on the mothership could of went to UP.)

The compounding effects of a high UP are best. Probably second best, if you plan on ascending and can find officers not, buying officers UPs up and reaquiring them as officers after you ascend has merit.

I really was in no hurry to ascend till the new market trader rules came out, Though donating to help this great game is a noble expence, buying an advantage does not seem to be. I guess after I earn the SS with G&R or Ascesion, I will donate also.

Once Im a living God or get tired of Raiding which is stedily getting more tedious and less profitable with the higher cost of turns, I will drive my UP up as High as I can.

[Spacey]

Well let's resort to math then...

You idea is interesting, but it has too many variables that are unaccounted for, for me to believe it so quickly. Plus, you didn't have any calculations in your response, just listing numbers isn't math...and I got happy thinking I'd get to pick apart calculations silly me

I want to secondly say that I'm excited to make another long post. I enjoy them.

Assumptions:
- the person you raid will not attack you incurring costs to you; many variations to this as well like being attack with someone who has a lot of UU out, low in rank, very high attack/covert/turns to take back what was lost other ways
- you will not be raided, sabbed, etc. by a different player
- all players you raid have 1-3%(as you said) UU out greater than your up...for example the player(s) you are raiding have 1.01-1.03 times more UU out than your UP
- etc.

Considerations:
- you posted earlier that you get 1-3% of what is out, look at the calculations...get less UU with at 1-3% realtive to UP per one turn used raiding or sitting back
- using UU from UP to get more turns to raid(best of both worlds?)

Let assume we are using the same numbers of turns in both cases:
Raiding at 1-3%:
(0.01)(30,000UU)=300
(0.03)(30,000UU)=900

Relying on UP:
gets you what every your UP is, for many people it's over 2000/day
https://talk.gatewa.rs/viewtopic.php?t=23775
Problems with this: if one turn raiding will get you 300-900 UU raiding, you break even with UP you need 14,400-43,200/day. So, for the purposes of this critigue I will assume that the player has a high UP already, therefore already making the investment.

Using one turn, and assuming you have a high enough UP to begin with, you get more UU per day, considering the gains got after raiding and sitting back with UP, without doing anything else in either case. The variables that exist are other cost that are incurred to make it a profitable venture. For example, being attacked back and defense costs, cost repairing attack weapons, turns use to spy before raiding(if done), losses of your own trained players in above cases, etc.

That UU will make money which you can then use to buy more turns and raid more....

Really? You could get more form, let's say the in-game market, with trading? If you train 300 UU into miners and I train 2000 UU into miners who will make more per turn? If you use a market turn and trade 30,000 UU, and I use a market turn and trade 200,000 UU who will get more turns/naq(just multiplied by 100)?

but you will always have more UU if you bought turns and raided (assuming you have infinite time and access to turns on hand...

The assumption you have given yourself needs to be applied to the other side of the equation as well. If you have an unlimited number of turns and time, would that be equated to having an unlimited UP? or unlimited number you can get of UP each day? In either cases if you look at it at it's simpliest form(at one attack or turn) UP will give you more UU, unless your UP is low, therefore requiring a commitment.

I"m just saying raiding is better mathematically. I'm going for 100k raw UP once I finish ascensions, even though it's a huge waste of naq. why? cuz I'm lazy too. heh....

You haven't proved it in your 'arguement'. I think you can get more UU a day using UP and raiding. Relying on raiding is contingent on turns, and relying on UP is contingent on naq. All in all I think having a low up and relying on turns to raid is a poor choice, but that's my opinion, and this is a long post.

K
edits: spelling, wrong calc. in blue, done a few times, all wrong...now worked out properly

[Ynnej]

As I do not know yet what the ascesion penality is for a high UP, I played this way after reaching ~2,500 UP.

With the high cost of turns now and the large Naq farms available now, (seems every attack is now over 100M.) turns could be better spent on farming Naq and using it to either buy UU or UP.

With every large or small change Forum makes with the game strategies will change.

Still though finding a player with 60-100K UU will tempt me.

[Rukia]

i agree its a long post...i attack occasionally and raid even less often. its not worth the hastle of repairs.

[Spacey]

I forgot to put my assumptions, but I don't want it to look like i'm sneaking it in there, so another post will have to do.

The main and largest assumption that I based what I said was that you could only use one attack per day, and the UP was based on sitting back for the day. This by design gives more weight to UP and less to raiding, but by nature that's what sitting back is. This again is based on not factoring in the cost to repair and getting attacked(in insanity's post and mine), which depend on damage, and how much you've peeved someone off.

If I forgot anything else I won't bother posting it, I feel like I'm writing another thesis/paper...BAAH!

K

[Reeb]

I like raiding, turning them into miners, and then I can make more naq to do more upgrades OR buy more turns. Attacking for naq is a waste of time once you get enough miners, considering I can take an inactive account's UU to make money for me instead of them. You just have to find the right accounts to farm and hope nobody else sees them for a while.

Then again, it sort of depends on your race... I see a lot of Tauri that have hardly any miners and very little defense... they must get 90% of their income from attacks. I would think that you'd just make more enemies that way myself, but I guess it depends on your playstyle.

[Ynnej]

I belive for either assumption your raiding or farming inactive accounts. Any active account would not leave 30k plus UU out. Only people I seem to have pissed off is people who had it as a unconnected Multi. And they all seem to be quiet now with players getting banned and osterasied.

Seems, for the long run better to farm Naq and invest in UP vs Raiding and adding miners?

Really though Repair cost for either is very little, all you need for most Naq or UU farms is 1 weapon.

[The Xeno]

I belive for either assumption your raiding or farming inactive accounts. Any active account would not leave 30k plus UU out.

Oh yeah they would...

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I lack the mathmatical expertise to back Spacey through equations, but I think some common sense can shed a little light.

This is a n00b forum, I am accustomed to dealing with n00bs. In my expierance, they will be lucky to even see 30K UU out in the open for the first few months. In that time, when UP is cheap and raiding lean, there is no better outlet for naq than their UP, Covert, and def. (Preferably in that order)

For a more elite account, sure... you can live off raiding, because you are doing it on a scale no n00b can comprehend... 20KUU per raid, 40K UU per raid... but for a n00b pulling in 100-300 units... in the long run s/he will be far better off pumping that naq into UP.

There are other, less tangible benifts to UP, such as letting you get powerfull commanders but I can't think of any way to examine that, exept to say....
When I first started, if you have a UP of less than 600, the average com would be willing to give you 200K/turn. With a UP of just over 1K, the coms would be giving you 600K/turn... with 4K... 2,3 mill/turn and you as there only officer.
THe amounts have changed, both for UP and naq, but the proof is still in the recruitment section.
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Work your UP, it is tried and true method to increase in power, later, you can work on raiding.

[darkness5723]

Okay, let me clarify. I'm not going to post a really long math equation yet, because it's unnecessary. UP gets continually expensive. Up until 5k raw UP it is worth it to buy UP because you get more for your naq. After that it gets really really expensive and raiding turns out more, trust me. At 20k raw UP it takes 200 something days to pay off. If you bought turns and raided with all that naq, its an instant payoff, then those UU continue to make money which you can use to buy turns and raid some more. If you want mathematical proof, wait till I get back from the gym and I'll whip something up.