Extortion - (demand goods for not massing) - right or wrong?

[Sleipnir]

The only real measures that I believe can truly effect a limiting of 'extortion' is to do away with in game trading. This is how... the only way for people to get naq, uus, and turns is via the in game market and in game black market. Attacking only allows players to gain naq and uu's at a limited rate, not on a scale that seems to be of concern to the coplaintents(Is that a word?) Without a mechanism to send various resources there would be no way for someone to extort resources from another player, at least not on a grand scale. Hence since a player cannot go along with the 'extortion', then the incentive to due such an act is removed as there is no way, other than attacking and raiding, to gain resources from another player in game. Getting rid of the give naq, uu, and turns buttons and other mechanisms that might allow for players to send resources between accounts is the simplest and easiest fix to eliminate 'extortion'.

*I do hope that is clear, I am extremely tired right now*

Thus we would have to debate is trading resources in game of greater value to the players or is the elimination of 'extortion'.

Actually, there are no give options in ascended. And still people find ways to trade. If they can do that, they can find ways to extort. However, on ascension, there's the ever looming threat of getting your glowy behind descended, so it's best not to make too many enemies. If someone were to get extorted and posted it on the forum, the responsible party is likely to get in serious trouble. There's always a couple of good guys around. I think the best way to keep extortion to respectable levels is to let the public deal with it. They just need a stick that hurts big people more than small.

[Winter Wolf]

Extortion is in my opinion is cowardly and immoral. The argument by many seems to be that because it is so widespread, that this justifies their actions. Personally I believe it should be policed, as it is simply bullying and cowardice in its purest form.

The issue of policing this has been raised, and I agree with some of you have said that it will be difficult to police.

This does not mean we shouldn't try.

Personally, I believe possible consequences are the only way this practice can be deterred. Penalties should be put in place for multiple offenders.

In my opinion, first time offenders should be strongly warned. Second time offenders should be banned for a short period of time. Third time offenders should be for an extended period of time.

These time periods would have to be decided by forum.

As for settling accusations of scamming and determining whether they are real or not, I believe that is ultimately up to forum getting help to police this. Gamemod springs to mind.

[Robe]

a point of clarification:
so really the post is dual-fold -- 1)is it an issue 2)if so, any ideas that would help reduce it, or limit the negative impact on the game, even if it is not '100% banned' or such

Extortion has become a big problem in the game and can be better controlled.

The severity of the incident relates directly to the position of power or trust that the extortionist holds within the game.

Preventing Serious Incidents
Players who attempt to extort resources via ingame messages or posts on SGW Forums, who hold a position of authority within the game, such as a Forum Admin or Forum Mod, should be removed from their position of trust, pending an open investigation.

To prevent this happening again, No Player should be appointed to, or be allowed to remain as a Forum Admin because this gives them too much influence over the game as a whole.

There is currently one Forum Admin (Agapooka aka Reality) who no longer plays (sold his account) who can continue on in this role until another non player can be appointed to assist.

Preventing other incidents
Players who attempt to extort resources via in game messages or posts on SGW Forums should be punished with Time Out.

First time Offenders
Alliance leaders who have been playing for more than 6 months should be ostracized for one month.

Players that extort resources should be ostracized for one week.

Second time Offenders
Should be ostracized for 3 months.

Third time Offenders
Banned from the game altogether.


Many players have become accustomed to extortion, just like the public have become desensitized to violence in the media. That does not make extortion acceptable game practice.

Power without Glory is nothing to be valued.
The values of the leaders dictate the culture of the organisation.

[RepliJake]

a point of clarification:
i would never attempt to stop behavior within the rules of the game.
I could never enforce 'no extorting' as a policy.

As for non player Mods/Admins, you're lucky to have one, stop complaining about everything.

It's a free game, what do you want?

[Raven]

Even if admin cant really stop this from happening as you are explaining it RJ like this whole thread is nonsense because nothing can be done about it anyway....

We still need something to keep this under control extortion might be something wich isnt so bad but it will drive newer players away and settled players sell up....

Some people need to get off their statue and play this game for a change besides just taking free resources instead of doing something yourself
Extortion is wrong it shouldnt be a thing anyone should consider if you wanna mass someone then do that even if they wanna pay you to not make you mass them.

Asking for resources is imo just pathetic and admin should do something about it i think Robe made a good post about wich punishments should follow on such actions.

Also i think the same about forum admins they shouldnt be playing this game as they can alter everything anyones writes and can delete it when they dont like it .......

Extortion isnt some kind of gameplay added by admin i just hope the people who do it will stop it and just go on with this game even though the guy who was asked to pay is massed they learn much more from a mass then paying someone resources ......

[Bazsy]

Theoretically: wasn't that extortion, when certain players sent a pm to another player to drop their officers or get massed? Or the other was: officers got pms that they should leave their co or get massed...

Whats the difference between paying uu to stop an attack and disbanding officers (whose give uu) ?

It was theoretical... and I ask everyone to remain that...



@Robe: what you suggesting is not that bad at all since I can see from my viewpoint, that it wont affect me anytime...

BUT: I do have concerns about overcontrolling everything. You see its only 1 issue and your plan is pretty long... If we would cover everything with rules like that, this came would become a lawyers place:D or if its better "Stargatelaws".
Not to mention where can you get ppl to decide who break the rules and what punishment will he get. Also who will give the punishment?

So while I can see your point in those "laws", on the other side I can see how that is impossible to keep follow them, and how the ppl in charge would abuse it.

Additional info: And someone mentione that this is a RPG in fact. I did play RPGs in real for a looooong time. And belive me. Its almost mandatory to have a different character in the game than you have in RL. And being an evil character is allowed. Actually in some games you HAVE to be an evil character sometimes...
What I want to say is that you cant bring RL character controlled issues (like forum admin / mod) to an issue which is about the ingame character.
This two is totally different

But if you have legit concerns against a mod/admin for things he/she did in the forums, you can always address it. But its another issue.

That became long:S Sorry

[reborn]

now im farming almost everyone i have it all the time, with not me even asking for it saying " pls stop i will give u half my income per day " because the troops i kill works out worst for them, but i dont like that way as it will then give me nothing to do and i will become lazy so i just say no tell them to raise their def and then still carry on taking there naq, still not good for them but stops me from being bored, but some do like to do it that way if u have the power y not use it, soon they will get annoyed with it and then have a reason to destroy u, ive only been asked once to pay uu when i first started and i was having none of it, cost me a lot but in the end i won

[reborn]

Even if admin cant really stop this from happening as you are explaining it RJ like this whole thread is nonsense because nothing can be done about it anyway....

We still need something to keep this under control extortion might be something wich isnt so bad but it will drive newer players away and settled players sell up....

Some people need to get off their statue and play this game for a change besides just taking free resources instead of doing something yourself
Extortion is wrong it shouldnt be a thing anyone should consider if you wanna mass someone then do that even if they wanna pay you to not make you mass them.

Asking for resources is imo just pathetic and admin should do something about it i think Robe made a good post about wich punishments should follow on such actions.

Also i think the same about forum admins they shouldnt be playing this game as they can alter everything anyones writes and can delete it when they dont like it .......

Extortion isnt some kind of gameplay added by admin i just hope the people who do it will stop it and just go on with this game even though the guy who was asked to pay is massed they learn much more from a mass then paying someone resources ......

sorry for the double post but saw this made me laugh, y dont u ask LOD and LOT were they got most of their UU from they have been at it since they started playing the game

[[TA] Ryan Uy]

i think the whole point that this game exist is because we love playing this game, now its supposed to be fun, and this extortion thing is really killing the game, unfortunately there is no real solution to the problem because you really cant control everything, but at least we should have some sense of decency and some form of unspoken rules

i think most of us or all of us are in agreement that extortion is something bad in general whether it be ingame or real life, that we are in agreement, as to the validity of it as a tactic, there are some gray areas to it

there are many definitions of extortions not to mention degrees as well, so at least we should have some basic agreements to it, we [all the players] can work something out on this, we "can stop extortion" on the basis of each individual players can have some sense of decency not to resort to such behaviors, if all agree to this then maybe this problem might not exist in the first place or we can lessen this incident

[RepliJake]

Game administration have enough to do without policing this, that's the reason Forum has said he wont do it.

Player justice is just so much easier. Where will you draw the line, demanding resources after wars? Telling people to leave their CO's or get massed? Telling people to drop their Alliance tags in war or get massed? Telling people to up their defence or get massed?

Yes, it can get very silly...

[buck]

Game administration have enough to do without policing this, that's the reason Forum has said he wont do it.

Player justice is just so much easier. Where will you draw the line, demanding resources after wars? Telling people to leave their CO's or get massed? Telling people to drop their Alliance tags in war or get massed? Telling people to up their defence or get massed?

Yes, it can get very silly...

This is true...

We, the COMMUNITY, if your all that bothered, should put our money where our mouths are, and, form our own anti Nasty person league, set down some rules as to what is bullying and extortion and what isnt, Im sure Most of omega would be up for enforceing it, and i sure as hell would, hek il even come up with the guidelines if noone minds...So, i say we give El Forum a break, and Sort this one out via ourselfs...

[Raven]

Even if admin cant really stop this from happening as you are explaining it RJ like this whole thread is nonsense because nothing can be done about it anyway....

We still need something to keep this under control extortion might be something wich isnt so bad but it will drive newer players away and settled players sell up....

Some people need to get off their statue and play this game for a change besides just taking free resources instead of doing something yourself
Extortion is wrong it shouldnt be a thing anyone should consider if you wanna mass someone then do that even if they wanna pay you to not make you mass them.

Asking for resources is imo just pathetic and admin should do something about it i think Robe made a good post about wich punishments should follow on such actions.

Also i think the same about forum admins they shouldnt be playing this game as they can alter everything anyones writes and can delete it when they dont like it .......

Extortion isnt some kind of gameplay added by admin i just hope the people who do it will stop it and just go on with this game even though the guy who was asked to pay is massed they learn much more from a mass then paying someone resources ......

sorry for the double post but saw this made me laugh, y dont u ask LOD and LOT were they got most of their UU from they have been at it since they started playing the game

Im giving my personal opinion on this and this is how you flame me?
Grow up...

[evilhomer]

In my christian views murder is murder, theft is theft whether 1 dollar or hundreds its still the same

Now, I dont remember, were you for or against it then? According to your opening sentence, you are against it, and have voted so. Murder IS murder, theft IS theft, no matter the amount or victim. If your "Christian" views have taught you that, then they have also taught you that extortion, no matter the venue it takes place in, is also wrong. Otherwise your views arent so much "Christian" as they are "Cafeteria Christian", meaning pick and choose what you want, leave the rest behind.


But on topic, thought I have never had anyone demand anything from me, I know for a fact it has happened several times to a few players. Its wrong, sorry. When this type of activity is allowed to go on, it effects game play at the entry level, which curbs its longevity. I'm not sure how you stop it, the rank modifier wasnt popular to be sure, but its still wrong.

[RepliJake]

sorry for the double post but saw this made me laugh, y dont u ask LOD and LOT were they got most of their UU from they have been at it since they started playing the game

Im giving my personal opinion on this and this is how you flame me?
Grow up...

Yeah, there's no flaming in his post and nothing childish, so ummm What are you talking about?

[killtacular]

a point of clarification:
so really the post is dual-fold -- 1)is it an issue 2)if so, any ideas that would help reduce it, or limit the negative impact on the game, even if it is not '100% banned' or such

Extortion has become a big problem in the game and can be better controlled.

The severity of the incident relates directly to the position of power or trust that the extortionist holds within the game.

Preventing Serious Incidents
Players who attempt to extort resources via ingame messages or posts on SGW Forums, who hold a position of authority within the game, such as a Forum Admin or Forum Mod, should be removed from their position of trust, pending an open investigation.

To prevent this happening again, No Player should be appointed to, or be allowed to remain as a Forum Admin because this gives them too much influence over the game as a whole.

There is currently one Forum Admin (Agapooka aka Reality) who no longer plays (sold his account) who can continue on in this role until another non player can be appointed to assist.

Preventing other incidents
Players who attempt to extort resources via in game messages or posts on SGW Forums should be punished with Time Out.

First time Offenders
Alliance leaders who have been playing for more than 6 months should be ostracized for one month.

Players that extort resources should be ostracized for one week.

Second time Offenders
Should be ostracized for 3 months.

Third time Offenders
Banned from the game altogether.


Many players have become accustomed to extortion, just like the public have become desensitized to violence in the media. That does not make extortion acceptable game practice.

Power without Glory is nothing to be valued.
The values of the leaders dictate the culture of the organisation.

I think your just trying to remove ETL just like cop wanted you not to have a position of power in the foundation. this is all heresay from 6th parties to me but meh thats what I beleive