Split from "I Quit"

[Cole]

Why would she lie to me for that?
I don't believe this went so far, she didn't act like evil one before it, if she was one, she would have been different all monthes before that, even if she planned it she would have been done few mistakes. I see who are evil people, I'm a System Lord afterall..
I see why you think it, it's the you lie once what makes us think you aren't doing it now, classical when we catch someone who lied nomatter reason involved..But beleive me not the case here

[Osi]

This is a smashing good read. However, one deception isn't enough to drive BW away. There has to be something else...or others who have recieved similair second chances. In which case it is obvious that the community would like to be enlightened of any duplicity on anyones part.

[Come_Forth]

Why would she lie to me for that?
I don't believe this went so far, she didn't act like evil one before it, if she was one, she would have been different all monthes before that, even if she planned it she would have been done few mistakes. I see who are evil people, I'm a System Lord afterall..
I see why you think it, it's the you lie once what makes us think you aren't doing it now, classical when we catch someone who lied nomatter reason involved..But beleive me not the case here

It was still pretty sadistic, a lot of us have screwed up lives but that is no excuse to hurt others.

[Se7en]

Why call it a 'ban' if the people are allowed to come back, and with mods knowing about it?

Call it a 'time out' because that's what it is.

On most online gaming forums, if a user is banned and then found to have made another forum account under a different name, that name is banned as well. It's not a 'banning of the forum name ThisUser12345' it is a banning of the person who posts as ThisUser12345. Allowing people to come back under different names will result in the same stuff happening 95% of the time. The majority of the time - if people are irresponsible and immature enough to get banned from a forum they won't have the sense about them to change their ways.

You guys do a great job moderating in my opinion, however the banning issue is a little silly, IMHO. I do however think that this forum is full enough with flames and insults from active posters that we don't even need to mess with giving banned users second chances. Again, you guys do a great overall job moderating here and this is one of the better moderated forums I frequent. But like most moderators you are very underappreciated for the services that you do this game/forum for free. I for one thank you all for putting up with most of us for as long as you have!

By now I'm probably rambling so I'll end this post here

Cheers

[Psi Kiya Trist]

Why call it a 'ban' if the people are allowed to come back, and with mods knowing about it?

Call it a 'time out' because that's what it is.

ironically when i was an admin, i tried my best to simply refer to it as "suspensions" til any banning of IP's or email addresses were used... cause those aren't reversed without good reason...

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

[DaDigi]

I have no intention of reading all these posts, after I have just read this first page. You all disgust me. You think it is easy being a moderator here? How well do you think you would end up after a week here? Constant bickering, people telling you that you cannot do your job. Guess what? Shut up! If you want to complain, then talk to yourself. Go email yourself, really. That's the best way to express your emotions without pissing off other people. If it is any consolation to you guys, the mod team has been discussing the Elladan issue for atleast a week or two. We are talking, discussing, and arguing the finer points of Elladan using this new account. Some people want her to stay, some people do not.

This is a portion of a large reply by Spacey.

So you're telling me that if Tok'ra wanted to come back as forum user "Bob", leader of the Underground-Above Ground Alliance, it would be ok? If it was ok, then banning wouldn't mean anything. I do understand that that it probably wasn't a perm. ban, but I'd like to understand the reasoning here.

"'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;"
-Romeo and Juliet

Her name is not the issue. The person is banned, not the name. As R3B3L said, the info is out, and you can tell with posting style and how she formulates her arguments. I can tell it's her from the way the responds to posts, and how profusely she apologized to Buck in recent thread in the GC.

A name is a name. It does not mean much. The only thing that matters is who is behind the name. I myself, would much rather that we, the mod team, discuss this issue in length before we make a decision. My personal feelings are clear. BUT, the last thing we need is an impulsive decision that will be questioned by my fellow moderators, and end up having half the mod team quit in two hours.

You, the community, will not always agree with the decisions of the management. If you don't like it, there are places where you can discuss the issue. Telling us all to, in essence, go screw ourselves is not the way to go.

Bottom line, follow the rules. If you don't follow the rules, you will be punished. If you do not believe me, keep trying us. Be aware that those of you who are pushing buttons they should not will get what they deserve in the long run.

/end rant.

[UBERN00B!]

Some of us have Mod experience and so we have some idea of what you are moaning about, DaDigi. We also have the right of dissent.

To those defending Elladan you are the ones who turned this into a personal thread. It was about the mod's actions and their conspiracy of silence that didn't quite work.

I will just chime in with my 2 cents here on the whole "psychology" story. Pure bulldust. Would "Castor" really be helping this story along after he lost his sister less then 6 weeks earlier? Late edit when I remembered - And that included her "parents" starting a guestbook for everyone to sign. I read it and there were people from all over the globe on that - not just the SGW community. That went far beyond fantasy as therapy. That's a line that proves someone did this for personal gain, not to heal themselves.

But this isn't supposed to be about that. This "EllaGate" is damaging forum users trust in the mods. We are told to come see you if we need help, you are doing your best whilst so understaffed etc etc. Yet this big conspiracy to withold information because you just don't trust us smacks of being elitist. This action is causing an "Us V Them" users and mods situation which you have been paying lip service to trying to avoid.

[agapooka]

The reason why Elladan was allowed back is because the head admin of the time, which preceded myself and Shaitan apparently pardoned her without even telling the rest of the mod OR admin team.

When we found out, we were shocked and attempted to discuss the best way to let people know. It seems someone decided that that didn't matter, let it out and now we have to take crap for it?

Meh.

J

[UBERN00B!]

It wasn't so much that "someone let it out" Boss. But due to hints being floated, allusions made in this particular thread plus a few of us having the ability to put two and two together it was blown out of the water. It was first mentioned by Tok'Ra several days after Jadzia arrived on the scene. I already knew because my friend's missus spotted her within nanoseconds of her first post and told her husband who told me. But I didn't bring it up until Tok'Ra revealed it.

If your post is to state that it wasn't a cover, merely a "we hadn't come to a decision yet" then that is fair enough. But Bad Wolf quit because of it so obviously it had been on that back burner for quite a while. I personally question whether it was a case of hoping the problem would just go away by itself.... or were the mod team hoping someone else would spill the beans so the decision would be taken out of their hands?

All due respect, Boss, but it was going to happen sooner or later. That's the whole point - this community isn't stupid. But when we are treated as if we are then expect a backlash.

[deleted]

Why is it that this forum always feels the need to prove my predictions correct?

I think this [massive exodus of good players and mods] was predicted almost 6 months ago by myself [during the ETL multi fiasco] and I was laughed down and told I was nuts. Now I come back and find that yet again this forum is turning into the laughing stock it swore up one side and down the other that it wasn't.

Just when exactly will the Mods be Mods and stop doing their best impressions of Pepe Le Pew meets Admin meets chicken with head cut off?

People like Bad Wolfe are hard to come across. But this forum goes thru those few like bad food thru a pig. And then the commuity wonders why the forum is hemorrhaging players like they are going out of style.

If you really want to know why this is happening and what it is about...try looking up ETL/Shaitan and Psi Multies as forum topics. Or if they have been purged [which often occurs after an embarrassing factoid has come out into the light of day] talk to some older players.

This is not a new thing. This is old. IT wasn't dealt with properly by Admin back then, and it's come back for round 3/4/5/6/7? I don't know properly anymore as I've lost count.

Until this is truly handled and not just mulled over and ranted about, this situation will continue. And it will continue with the end result of this game going still further down the tubes.

I'm going to start calling myself Nostradamus of SGW as apparently I have a gift. I predict it and am ignored. 3-5 months later it happens just like I said it would. This is almost creeping me out. But not quite But of course idiocy really isn't that hard to predict.

[Spacey]

...It was about the mod's actions and their conspiracy of silence that didn't quite work....Yet this big conspiracy to withold information because you just don't trust us...

Conspiracy to withhold info? If anyone is seriously believing/considering that, you need to consider everything again. You are making it sound like we scoured the forum looking for posts about it and they were removed, or said player was given special protection not afforded to anyone else. Do you have any evidence of this?

Perhaps everyone should look at these threads:
http://herebegames.com/StarGateWars/vie ... 97&start=6
(you may recognize the poster in the above thread)
http://herebegames.com/StarGateWars/vie ... 3&start=48
http://herebegames.com/StarGateWars/vie ... 8&start=18
(and further down)
http://herebegames.com/StarGateWars/vie ... 8&start=24

There many more. What info. did we withhold or what did we cover up? It is there for everyone to see. We were talking about what to do about it. Please don't act like this is Watergate, or the Sponsorship Scandal. There was never a cover up, and nothing that was posted by users was EVER removed or edited about this. No user was told that they can't discuss what they were talking about. For example, were you ever approached by admin or mod and told by anyone to edit the post in the first link, or that you should not be talking about it?

What we as mods and admin discuss in the mod station can be private and confidential. There is a level of secrecy as to what we discuss there due to the level/nature of the information. Would you expect any less? For example, would you want mods who deal with IP and possibly personal/sensitive user information to talk about it to anyone? What happens in the mod station, stays in the mod station...for all issues, not just this.

What conspiracy are you talking about? I'm really tired of reading this stuff about mods protecting someone and hiding identities. Has anyone been told they have to disclose their identity to the rest of the forum? Has anyone been approached by admin or mods who tell than that they have to tell the community? Do mods or admin post the multi forum account for everyone that has one? The same rules should apply to everyone.

No where does it say that what is discussed between mods or admin has to be discussed with users. Do we share the results of investigations with users, or perhaps(when the need arises, for example) disclose IP addresses to the community?

Explain how it's right to do that to one person when it hasn't been done for anyone else? Can you explain how that would be ethical? Someone might argue that said player did worse, but why must we stoop to that level. The mods are better than that. Even if someone has done terrible things they must be treated fairly and justly. It is what separates us from those that would do terrible things.

When I get an application for the Respect Group I ask, most times, if the applicant has a multi forum account. If they tell me what forum accounts they have it is my responsibility to keep that info safe. It is their choice to disclose it or not. Are you saying I should be telling people what other pples multis exist? Or perhaps when an IP check is done for a ban or perm. ban the IPs should be shared with everyone here?

...But Bad Wolf quit because of it so obviously it had been on that back burner for quite a while....

I brought up the issue on May 3/07. That is 17 days ago, and currently there are 90 posts in the thread. That totals to 5.29 posts/day discussing this, and step were being taken. This issue was hardly on 'the back burner'.

...I personally question whether it was a case of hoping the problem would just go away by itself.... or were the mod team hoping someone else would spill the beans so the decision would be taken out of their hands?

I don't know how to even address that. Either you think the mod team is incompetent or they don't care. Both of which are totally false. We were debating/discussing what to do, and steps were being taken.

...That's the whole point - this community isn't stupid. But when we are treated as if we are then expect a backlash...

Decision were made by admin when said player was let back in, and Pookie said. As it has been posted by other mods, some said she should get another chance, and some did not agree. The position we found ourself in was dealing with the cards that we were dealt, and doing so properly. That is what we were charged with.

...Just when exactly will the Mods be Mods and stop doing their best impressions of Pepe Le Pew meets Admin meets chicken with head cut off?...

Now, now. Lets not flame/name call.

...Until this is truly handled and not just mulled over and ranted about, this situation will continue...

This issue was being truley being handled by admin with mod and supermod input. Stating that it wasn't being done is not grounded in fact.

EDITS: are listed in green

[Taure]

I'm sorry...this is the big conspiracy? Someone changing their name?

Wow, am I disappointed or what. I was expecting EtL to be forum's lover at the least...

Who cares if some girl quits the forum and comes back under a different name? Her old accounts, both in-game and on the forum, are dead and she no longer uses them, and so it isn't multing.

[LBWMTE- D4rk S1de]

I'm sorry...this is the big conspiracy? Someone changing their name?

Wow, am I disappointed or what. I was expecting EtL to be forum's lover at the least...

Who cares if some girl quits the forum and comes back under a different name? Her old accounts, both in-game and on the forum, are dead and she no longer uses them, and so it isn't multing.

She faked a disease, she used forum accounts pretending to be her family/friends and she pretended to be extremely ill to the point that she was almost dead. She did this on this forum, and apparentlyt did something similar on anothor mmorpg in a completely separate incident a while ago.

[Big Brother]

I'm sorry...this is the big conspiracy? Someone changing their name?

Wow, am I disappointed or what. I was expecting EtL to be forum's lover at the least...

Who cares if some girl quits the forum and comes back under a different name? Her old accounts, both in-game and on the forum, are dead and she no longer uses them, and so it isn't multing.

I care!!! she didn't quit she was told to leave. A big difference IMO.
She also used her friends and spat them out with no regard to them or anyone else. She had three ingame multis (that we know off),

in her own words, this shows the type of contempt she has for ppl that get scammed, and how much better than everyone else she things she is. Thread can be found on forum by doing as search.

Scamming is simply defeating the innate common sense of people.

The better the scammer, the higher the level of common sense required, until at some point the scamming abilities require the use of other means to detect it.

At one point no one else is to blame but the scammees. The scammer is merely a player who has perfected the use of that ability to lie to people straightfaced.

It's a vice. And as such, it's no fun to be told to be one.

I think falsely accusing someone of scamming should be MORE illegal then scamming itself. It damages peoples' trust in a person if that person is attacked and called a scammer by people with less-then-good intent.

Regards,

[FreeSpirit]

I'm sorry...this is the big conspiracy? Someone changing their name?

Wow, am I disappointed or what. I was expecting EtL to be forum's lover at the least...

Who cares if some girl quits the forum and comes back under a different name? Her old accounts, both in-game and on the forum, are dead and she no longer uses them, and so it isn't multing.

She faked a disease, she used forum accounts pretending to be her family/friends and she pretended to be extremely ill to the point that she was almost dead. She did this on this forum, and apparentlyt did something similar on anothor mmorpg in a completely separate incident a while ago.

Since when do other MMORPG matter here? She did things most will not agree with but as spacey allready stated we mods are here to be neutral and to do the things that seem right. Discussions were occuring in our private section. Matters like this take time and thinking over our desissions. No final dessision was made so no final actions were taken yet. I hereby ask to leave it up to the admins supermods and mods to handle this and let us discuss this properly. Im sure we will find an answer...